Rafa Exclusive in The Times

[Whelan]

I think we are, but we aren't playing like we are, we aren't defending like we are, and we don't have the passion that we should for who are perceived as better players.

 

Our team right now isn't the best that Rafa has had in his tenure

 

Finnan (first choice) > Degen (not first choice)

Kewell (first choice) > Dossena/Riera (not first choice)

Riise (first choice) > Dossena (not first choice)

Crouch (wasn't here) > Voronin and Ngog (not first choice)

Hyypia > Skrtel

Biscan (wasn't first choice) > Lucas (Not first choice)

Hamman > Mascherano

 

You really don't help yourself sometimes Ant, really you don't!

 

Have you ever thought about a career in Politics!

[Randy Marsh]

Why hasn't he said anything?

 

If he can't say anything, why did he sign the contract?

 

Why, what would he possibly gain from saying anything now?

You cannot doubt his passion for the club. Any other manager would have walked a long time ago the shit he has put up with. He could walk in to any job in Europe, with a massive budget. He's stayed here through more shite than ANY Liverpool manager has ever had to contend with. That should tell you that he sees this place as more than just a job. I'd have walked a long time ago if I was him.

[Whelan]

Why, what would he possibly gain from saying anything now?

You cannot doubt his passion for the club. Any other manager would have walked a long time ago the shit he has put up with. He could walk in to any job in Europe, with a massive budget. He's stayed here through more shite than ANY Liverpool manager has ever had to contend with. That should tell you that he sees this place as more than just a job. I'd have walked a long time ago if I was him.

 

He has said something now. And look at how much shit he is taking!

[Carra_is_legend]

Its a lot, lot better but in comparison to Chelsea and ManU the difference is still massive because Chelsea raised the bar. Manu were able to manage but i suspect with City coming on the scene they will also find it increasingly difficult.

 

As I said, some of the players Rafa brought in were real quality - Reina, Torres, Mascherano, Agger, Alonso, Johnson etc.

 

But our squad is weaker now than in 2004 because Rafa bought in some real shite like Babel, Dossena, Degen, Voronin etc.

 

I would say Rafa has had a 50% transfer success with us. Nothing more.

 

You just have to look the players he sold and the players he bought to replace them. That will tell you the full story.

[Randy Marsh]

"When everyone is fit". The statement appears every day these days. Especially when goal posts gets moved.

 

I'm saying if you are going to compare selective first XI players of 2004 with current players, atleast compare them with their 2009 first XI equivalent. Although the overwhelming difference in quality wouldn't fit the argument.

[Antynwa]

Why, what would he possibly gain from saying anything now?

You cannot doubt his passion for the club. Any other manager would have walked a long time ago the shit he has put up with. He could walk in to any job in Europe, with a massive budget. He's stayed here through more shite than ANY Liverpool manager has ever had to contend with. That should tell you that he sees this place as more than just a job. I'd have walked a long time ago if I was him.

 

If his family weren't so happy here he would have left months ago.

 

The simple fact of the matter is that Rafa held the club to ransom in the summer he should not have under any circumstances be given a 5 year contract. The fans and the club have been used as pawns in a political power struggle and I'm abit fucked off with it all.

 

He signed a £5 Million deal in the summer, and I don't think he would sign his own gagging order.

 

So what if Rafa could walk into any other club? Any manager would jump at the chance to manage Liverpool, so swings and round-a-bouts....

[Carra_is_legend]

Why, what would he possibly gain from saying anything now?

You cannot doubt his passion for the club. Any other manager would have walked a long time ago the shit he has put up with. He could walk in to any job in Europe, with a massive budget. He's stayed here through more shite than ANY Liverpool manager has ever had to contend with. That should tell you that he sees this place as more than just a job. I'd have walked a long time ago if I was him.

 

He may get any job in Europe and may get a massive budget, but he won't have a say in who to buy or sell. It will be done for him by some one else and he will be asked to "concentrate on coaching the players".

 

He has had some shite to put up with but he has also created some shite of his own. He is hardly an angel when it comes to serving shite to the general public.

[Best Believe It]

If his family weren't so happy here he would have left months ago.

 

The simple fact of the matter is that Rafa held the club to ransom in the summer he should not have under any circumstances be given a 5 year contract. The fans and the club have been used as pawns in a political power struggle and I'm abit fucked off with it all.

 

He signed a £5 Million deal in the summer, and I don't think he would sign his own gagging order.

 

So what if Rafa could walk into any other club? Any manager would jump at the chance to manage Liverpool, so swings and round-a-bouts....

 

What a crock of shit.

[Randy Marsh]

If his family weren't so happy here he would have left months ago.

 

The simple fact of the matter is that Rafa held the club to ransom in the summer he should not have under any circumstances be given a 5 year contract. The fans and the club have been used as pawns in a political power struggle and I'm abit fucked off with it all.

 

He signed a £5 Million deal in the summer, and I don't think he would sign his own gagging order.

 

So what if Rafa could walk into any other club? Any manager would jump at the chance to manage Liverpool, so swings and round-a-bouts....

 

You honestly believe that do you? In our current state, a top manager would walk in to us knowing they'd have nothing to spend unless they sold players from our already paper thin squad?

[diego]

If his family weren't so happy here he would have left months ago.

 

The simple fact of the matter is that Rafa held the club to ransom in the summer he should not have under any circumstances be given a 5 year contract. The fans and the club have been used as pawns in a political power struggle and I'm abit fucked off with it all.

 

He signed a £5 Million deal in the summer, and I don't think he would sign his own gagging order.

 

So what if Rafa could walk into any other club? Any manager would jump at the chance to manage Liverpool, so swings and round-a-bouts....

 

puerile piddle

[Whelan]

If his family weren't so happy here he would have left months ago.

 

The simple fact of the matter is that Rafa held the club to ransom in the summer he should not have under any circumstances be given a 5 year contract. The fans and the club have been used as pawns in a political power struggle and I'm abit fucked off with it all.

 

He signed a £5 Million deal in the summer, and I don't think he would sign his own gagging order.

 

So what if Rafa could walk into any other club? Any manager would jump at the chance to manage Liverpool, so swings and round-a-bouts....

 

I give up, seriously.

 

You take a barely plausible possibility that suits your argument and repeat as factual evidence.

[Carra_is_legend]

I'm saying if you are going to compare selective first XI players of 2004 with current players, atleast compare them with their 2009 first XI equivalent. Although the overwhelming difference in quality wouldn't fit the argument.

 

Sure.

 

As I said, Rafa has bought some fantastic players for us. He has equally bought some real shite ones.

 

We didn't have regular champions league football before 2004, we didn't have the increased TV money before 2004. Rafa has had both in his time. And he earned some of it by having good CL runs.

 

Almost every LFC fan points to the purchases of Diao, Cheyrou and Diouf to point a finger at Houllier. The combined fee for them was still less than what we spent on Keane. But Houllier bought "shite" whereas Rafa is "doing his best".

[diego]

He has said something now. And look at how much shit he is taking!

 

 

Only from critics on here who talk to each other day in and out. They'd be tongue-tied if they ever actually met Rafa.

[Randy Marsh]

Sure.

 

As I said, Rafa has bought some fantastic players for us. He has equally bought some real shite ones.

 

We didn't have regular champions league football before 2004, we didn't have the increased TV money before 2004. Rafa has had both in his time. And he earned some of it by having good CL runs.

 

Almost every LFC fan points to the purchases of Diao, Cheyrou and Diouf to point a finger at Houllier. The combined fee for them was still less than what we spent on Keane. But Houllier bought "shite" whereas Rafa is "doing his best".

 

I think the difference now to pre 2003 is pure and simply the Abramovitch effect. Back when Houllier signed those players, we could still compete at a reasonable level in the market. Everyone at the time said that the 22million could have went on Duff and Anelka, regarded by many as being perfect fits to what our team required to push on from 2nd place. That couldn't happen now. To sign our number 1 choices, players who would improve us, would cost atleast 15-20million. When we are having to sell to buy now that just wouldn't happen.

[goatboy59]

You think Rafa gets good press?

I do not.

 

However the emergence of such slop at a time when we are having one of our worst ever runs can and probably will be counter-productive. The talk of where we are in comparison to 2004 - I'm not ploughing down the 'anti' road by comparing players, we are a lot better end of story - unnervingly mirrors the list of pluses Gerard came out with in 2003 and 2004. Which were also correct, up to a point.

 

As much as you want fans to view the overall, this is unarguably his sixth season in charge. As Zigackly says we were not exactly pulling up trees before this run began. Of the 6 victories in a row, which of them were unexpected?

 

The opinion pieces will follow through the week, and for those who were casting doubt on his future how many do you think will now say "oh, now you mention it etc"? I'd say precisely zero, and more likely will be along the lines of "have you read what he's saying now?"

 

We lose to City and I'll be looking for the headline 'Eternal Sunshine Of The Clueless Mind". Toulouse Le Plot, only updated, but a top team with one victory in 2 months is not going to get an easy ride.

 

If Wenger were falling this fast the 'poison' would be there as well, and Ancelotti wouldn't even be there.

[Carra_is_legend]

I think the difference now to pre 2003 is pure and simply the Abramovitch effect. Back when Houllier signed those players, we could still compete at a reasonable level in the market. Everyone at the time said that the 22million could have went on Duff and Anelka, regarded by many as being perfect fits to what our team required to push on from 2nd place. That couldn't happen now. To sign our number 1 choices, players who would improve us, would cost atleast 15-20million. When we are having to sell to buy now that just wouldn't happen.

 

It wouldn't happen if we keep spunking millions on players like Babel, Keane, Riera, Dossena either.

 

There are various other things that one can use to praise Rafa. Transfer record is not one of them. To me, anyway. And I won't blame Chelsea or United or City or Madrid for that either.

[Hermes]

It wouldn't happen if we keep spunking millions on players like Babel, Keane, Riera, Dossena either.

 

 

Exactly, plus £2m on a central defender who despite injuries in that position has hardly started a game. We are blowing the cash we do have on players who sit in the stands and we have done for 5 years.

[Guest LFD]

Almost every LFC fan points to the purchases of Diao, Cheyrou and Diouf to point a finger at Houllier. The combined fee for them was still less than what we spent on Keane. But Houllier bought "shite" whereas Rafa is "doing his best".

 

You can't compare finances in Houiller's time with purchases now.

 

All players cost more than they did seven yerars ago.

[coop]

As we know Rafa signed a new contract in the summer which a few people say was wrong of the club to do so.

 

Lets rewind a few months then and what do you think the club should have done.

[Carra_is_legend]

You can't compare finances in Houiller's time with purchases now.

 

All players cost more than they did seven yerars ago.

 

Of course they cost more now. That is why I said the following in the same post you have quoted:

 

We didn't have regular champions league football before 2004, we didn't have the increased TV money before 2004. Rafa has had both in his time. And he earned some of it by having good CL runs.

 

My argument was Houllier wasted £20m on THREE players. Rafa wasted £20m on ONE player. What is the difference? On one hand, Houllier was "rubbish" whereas Rafa is working with his hands tied behind his back. How does that work then?

 

And no, I'm not interested in how much we got for Keane when he left. I'm only interested in how useful (or not) he was for the team. As I said before, we are a football club not a fucking bank.

[Carra_is_legend]

As we know Rafa signed a new contract in the summer which a few people say was wrong of the club to do so.

 

Lets rewind a few months then and what do you think the club should have done.

 

I would have waited until the summer and even then, I would have only given him a new 2-year contract.

 

Even if he goes back to his beloved Madrid, he wouldn't get anything more than that.

[hamstrung]

I would have waited until the summer and even then, I would have only given him a new 2-year contract.

 

Even if he goes back to his beloved Madrid, he wouldn't get anything more than that.

 

The length of the contract only really affects the payout we have to give him when he leaves.

 

Given we're a football club not a fucking bank, it shouldn't matter...

[Red Nick]

I reckon Mourinho would take the job on almost any terms

 

The fact he would even consider it considering how the LFC fans feel about him would tell you his determination to make a success of the job

 

Win the PL and having Liverpool fans singing his name, how sweet is that.

[Randy Marsh]

It wouldn't happen if we keep spunking millions on players like Babel, Keane, Riera, Dossena either.

 

There are various other things that one can use to praise Rafa. Transfer record is not one of them. To me, anyway. And I won't blame Chelsea or United or City or Madrid for that either.

 

Is he the only manager to make mistakes in the transfer market? Every manager does. The difference here is that his every mistake is scrutinized to the tiniest detail, and due to the sorry pathetic state we are in off the field he simply cannot afford to make any when our rivals can simply sit them on the bench and bring in a more expensive upgrade. Yet still he is expected to win us the league.

 

Why don't people look at his good business? Torres, Mascherano, Johnson, Alonso, Garcia, Reina, Agger, Skrtel, Insua, Kuyt, Benayoun, and that's just quickly off the top of my head? Why do his critics never look at these deals. If we sold Torres now it would cover all the money he has spent at the club in one swoop.

 

How many 6-10million players do you see Utd, Chelsea or City buy? The club's we are expected to compete with.

 

Barring Keane, who was sold for 16million 6months later, what "big" signings, the ones which fill out our rivals squads, can you say he has made mistakes on? Torres? Mascherano? Johnson? God help him if he ever spent 30 odd million on Anderson a Nani, 30million on Berbatov, 30million on Veron. He'd be hanging from the liver birds now.

 

If Rafa could have sold Dossena, Babel, Degen and Riera last summer, and seen the money from those sales, he would have done. He's proven he's not scared to ship out duds in the past, Kromkamp, Morientes, Josemi to name but a few. He sells anyone last summer, and all he gets is an evern weaker squad. No money for improvememts. What good will that gain?

[Trucker Paddy]

TBH it looks more to me know that all the haggling for his contract came down to money, not control of transfers the alonso money and the statement after Johnson signed that we still had money to spend without selling anybody, or guarnteed transfer budget etc. The man seems to have signed a gagging order because there giving him £5m a year to keep quiet.

As Houllier lost his job because when it came down to it the 2002 transfers Rafa seems to have a pass becaust the yanks A cant afford to sack him, and B

nobody else would touch us, the 2008 summer dealings make 2002 look genius.