Keane

[Catch22]

He was never even close to being 1 of the best strikers in the League.

 

If he had been he would have been snapped by a CL side long before (Berbatov lasted 2 years not over 5 at the same club before getting his move)

 

Outside of the top 4 the PL really is pretty shite (certainly compared to La Liga: Seville & Everton both finished 5th last year, what a contrast) which is borne out by the Uefa Cup results. Sky have to hype up the shit teams by over-prasing their players (see Yakabu)

 

He was bought as a squad player & has played as such; He has played too many games due to Torres injury.

 

If we had bought him for £8m or he had resale value then he would be fine.

 

The problem is the price but that's what you get when you have a stupid Board listening to short-termist fans.

[Dave D]

How can one of the best strikers in the league be turned into a shadow of his former self?

 

Granted Keane hasn't done himself many favors, but he has been dropped when his confidence is up, and played when he's been absolutely shite.

 

I know his body language nad muttering under his breath doesnt help when he gets subbed but Im sometimes surprised at how many people on here dont seem to cut him any slack for his undoubted poor treatment.

 

I just know that had he been given a run in the side when he started scoring it would be a different story. Its common in football at all levels, proffesional or pub teams, confidence, particularly in strikers is vital. His is shot to bits and rightly so. Its better that he leaves now but I think he could have done very well.

[Antynwa]

Yes he was, on his day Robbie Keane is an excellent player, and our past history with strikers, makes me believe that it isn't all Robbie's fault.

 

Look at Kuyt, how can an excellent dutch striker be turned into a midfield workhorse in the space of a few months?

 

Cisse was turned into a Right Midfielder etc

 

Keane is a proven quality player, so what's gone wrong for him?

 

It's a combination of

 

1. His attitude

2. Benitez's attitude

3. Where, When, How he is played.

 

It's annoyed me immensely that during that time where he scored v Arsenal, and Bolton he was dropped the next game. Same with when he scored v PSV at home, he was dropped v City.

 

He done it plenty of times with Crouch last season, and he's doing it with Keane.

 

Either way, the buck stops with Benitez, his signing , his budget, his mistake.

[Antynwa]

The best example I can think of is when we where drawing with Hull in the last 20, and he leaves Keane on the bench.

 

The onus was on Benitez to bring him on, had he brought him on, the onus is on Keane to deliver.

 

People talk about United being lucky v Bolton, well thats what you get for bringing your strikers on when you are on the verge of dropping points, nothing lucky about it, it's just hunger, desire, and willingness to right a few wrongs to risk defeat, to earn a win.

[redrosetints]

It looked very much like that when he saw his number come up. I'm almost sure about it. Only thing he deserves praise for tonight was when he ran off the pitch at full speed.

 

It could equally have been 'I'm Off' as Torres was coming up for a chat, pre corner (wasn't it? ) .

 

I agree he's not done well, but this kind of thing can't be proven and only adds to the weight on his shoulders and the polarisation of opinions around him.

[Catch22]

Yes he was, on his day Robbie Keane is an excellent player, and our past history with strikers, makes me believe that it isn't all Robbie's fault.

 

Look at Kuyt, how can an excellent dutch striker be turned into a midfield workhorse in the space of a few months?

 

Cisse was turned into a Right Midfielder etc

 

Keane is a proven quality player, so what's gone wrong for him?

 

It's a combination of

 

1. His attitude

2. Benitez's attitude

3. Where, When, How he is played.

 

It's annoyed me immensely that during that time where he scored v Arsenal, and Bolton he was dropped the next game. Same with when he scored v PSV at home, he was dropped v City.

 

He done it plenty of times with Crouch last season, and he's doing it with Keane.

 

Either way, the buck stops with Benitez, his signing , his budget, his mistake.

 

 

Robbie Keane was an excellent player in Jamie Redknapp's eyes.

 

He was not an excellent player in the eyes of every single CL scout who watched him over the last 5 years or someone would have bought him.

 

He is not a "proven quality player" at CL level as he had never played it before! He may not have the skills against packed defences (Dean Saunders) or the mental side (David James)

 

Should Rafa have signed him ? No, it was a clear mistake, which i have written from the beginning

 

It is not a mistake to drop him; it would be a stubborn mistake a la GH with Dioff to keep playing someone who is not up 4 it.

 

The key now is to sell him as soon as possible.

[Antynwa]

Okay, so if he wasn't an excellent player in the eyes of every single CL scout, then why did Benitez buy him?

 

I hold the opinion that he is a quality player, and was delighted Rafa bought him.

[Catch22]

Okay, so if he wasn't an excellent player in the eyes of every single CL scout, then why did Benitez buy him?

 

I hold the opinion that he is a quality player, and was delighted Rafa bought him.

 

 

He was bought as a squad player; Rafa also "gambled" on him.

We have to take those gambles as we have less cash than the other top 4 sides (ie/ buying Crouch) Luckily Rafa gets it right more often than anyone else in world football

 

Finally Rafa acted short-term whcih was to defend his interest not the clubs.

That is what happens when you have a weak & stupid Board listening to phone-in fans (Rashid "demanding" a challenge this year) rather than judging a body-of-work & awarding a longrun contract

When he had that, he bought longterm (Torres, Pepe, Alonso, Skrtel, Agger & Masch,Momo all 23 or lower)

 

If the board & fans demand short-termism then don't be surprised if the maanager acts shortterm & you go increasingly backwards (see Newcastle)

 

I wrote all of this before the season so it is not hindsight (equally i was very critical of Rafa for signing Crouch & that gamble turned out to be an excellent one)

[KevieG]

Catch22 you acting like a moonie at this stage. Why the hell would Rafa spend 20 million on a squad player when there are gaping holes across the first team?

[Brownie]

What right has he got? He was abysmal last night and has missed countless sitters this year. I say that as someone who implored us to sign for the best part of 18 months and was made up when we got him.

 

Well I can only judge it from my owen perspective mate. If I scored three goals in two Premier League games and then found myself benched, whilst Kuyt was on his own up front, i'd be extremely annoyed and it would certainly affect my confidence.

 

Some people might say he should be stronger mentally but footballers aren't always like that. Rafa has used him incredibly poorly.

[The 5th Benitel]

While Keane was terrible on Monday and has been at other times this season the sad fact is that, behind Gerrard and Torres, he is by far the most likely player on our squad to contribute to us scoring. Even the stat gimps (which i think means fuck all) can see he's our second top scorer with far less time on the pitch than all the other players up there aside from the big 2.

 

As far as this season goes it makes fuck all difference how he came here. We need to stick with him like he did with Crouch cos we cant just rely on two players all the time and there's definately no one else capable of stepping up.

[Catch22]

Catch22 you acting like a moonie at this stage. Why the hell would Rafa spend 20 million on a squad player when there are gaping holes across the first team?

 

 

It was a mistake, i totally agree.

 

I always said he must be a squad player due to the disruption to 4-2-3-1 which suits our players so well.

 

Partly the price reflects where the market was (when i was critical someone said to me in teh summer it is "Crouch +£8m" which made some sense). Even now he is better than Defoe or Bellamy who have just gone for £15m

Partly it is the short-term issue i brought upo in my last post.

 

We did need a squad striker (as has been shown by how many games Keane has played)

[redrosetints]

Okay, so if he wasn't an excellent player in the eyes of every single CL scout, then why did Benitez buy him?

 

I hold the opinion that he is a quality player, and was delighted Rafa bought him.

 

Which makes it even more strange why he's not settled. You can criticise Rafa for benching him a few times recently, but up until Hull, he'd started 16 of 18 PL games or something like that. Its not like he hasnt had a chance.

 

Im sure eventually he'll deliver, he just needs to get used to where he is and the associated pressure.

[Unrighteous]

Dear Wigan,

 

We will give you Robbie Keane for Valencia... and Zaki? Ok, fine. Just Valencia.

 

With regards,

Liverpool FC

[Brownie]

While Keane was terrible on Monday and has been at other times this season the sad fact is that, behind Gerrard and Torres, he is by far the most likely player on our squad to contribute to us scoring. Even the stat gimps (which i think means fuck all) can see he's our second top scorer with far less time on the pitch than all the other players up there aside from the big 2.

 

As far as this season goes it makes fuck all difference how he came here. We need to stick with him like he did with Crouch cos we cant just rely on two players all the time and there's definately no one else capable of stepping up.

 

One thing which interests me about the Keane situation as well, is the amount of times he's brought off after 60/65 minutes. Michael Owen is one of the top scorers in the Premier League over the years (just like Keane) and he had a habit of playing poorly but popping up with late goals despite not being involved in the game much.

 

Owen probably would have 'failed' under Rafa because he'd have been brought off constantly as well.

 

It makes me laugh that the mantra amongst most people on here is that you should judge a player over a prolongued period, yet with Keane, he was judged as being shit after about 20 games.

[spider-neil]

the long and the short of it is this;

 

you can't/shouldn't expect a footballer to perform if they are in and out of the side. bottom fucking line.

 

p.s. if you are going to invest 20 fucking million pounds on a player then you should fucking play them otherwise its a ridiculous amount of money wasted. keane should have been playing week in and week out and left on the pitch as long as humanly possible at the end of a period of say three months then you can deem whether he cuts the mustard or not, but the way he has been utilised you can truly judge him because he hasn't had a consistant run.

 

I will close by saying no manager in world fucking football except benitez would have dropped a striker who had scored three goals in two games. NO OTHER MANAGER. rafa has sewn the seeds and he is reaping what he has sewn.

[Unrighteous]

the long and the short of it is this;

 

you can't/shouldn't expect a footballer to perform if they are in and out of the side. bottom fucking line.

 

p.s. if you are going to invest 20 fucking million pounds on a player then you should fucking play them otherwise its a ridiculous amount of money wasted. keane should have been playing week in and week out and left on the pitch as long as humanly possible at the end of a period of say three months then you can deem whether he cuts the mustard or not, but the way he has been utilised you can truly judge him because he hasn't had a consistant run.

 

I will close by saying no manager in world fucking football except benitez would have dropped a striker who had scored three goals in two games. NO OTHER MANAGER. rafa has sewn the seeds and he is reaping what he has sewn.

 

I'm sorry but did you miss the first half of the season? Keane started like EVERY match and didn't perform.

 

We've given him till past christmas, really, and he has shown what... three good performances?

 

Gutted about the whole situation because Keane and Dossena represent one year's team development WASTED.

 

We can't afford to waste this year, either.

[Catch22]

Well I can only judge it from my owen perspective mate. If I scored three goals in two Premier League games and then found myself benched, whilst Kuyt was on his own up front, i'd be extremely annoyed and it would certainly affect my confidence.

 

Some people might say he should be stronger mentally but footballers aren't always like that. Rafa has used him incredibly poorly.

 

 

Rafa has a track record of getting amazing amounts from his players (look at Tenerife or Valencia after he left or the CL winning team incl Traore) & no-one has left him & gone on to do really well.

 

& modern football is a squad game. It is not the old days where being dropped was a massive slur on you.

If he cant handle that, then he is not a player anymore than a golfer who always misses the big puts is a golfer.

 

The people who wanted Keane need to man up & admit they were worng about him rather than blaming Rafa or making spurious excuses.

That happens to the best of them (quite literally: Rafa is the best manager around at the moment &he fucking bought him) with something as unpredicatble as future talent evaluation (ffs even Rashid occasionally got on right & he had also no ability to think issues thru logically)

 

GH showed what happens when you don't admit your mistakes quickly: hopefully Rafa is big enough to admit he got it wrong & move Robbie on

 

(& i dont want to appear smug on Robbie so given that i know you follow the NFL, my big bet this year was selling the Steelers who i confidently predcited would be undone by thei tough schedule!)

[Antynwa]

 

I will close by saying no manager in world fucking football except benitez would have dropped a striker who had scored three goals in two games. NO OTHER MANAGER. rafa has sewn the seeds and he is reaping what he has sewn.

 

Crux of it.

 

Played when he's shit, Dropped when he's got confidence.

 

Crouch can vouch for that.

 

Rafa's man management is absolutely atrocious.

[Catch22]

the long and the short of it is this;

 

you can't/shouldn't expect a footballer to perform if they are in and out of the side. bottom fucking line.

 

p.s. if you are going to invest 20 fucking million pounds on a player then you should fucking play them otherwise its a ridiculous amount of money wasted. keane should have been playing week in and week out and left on the pitch as long as humanly possible at the end of a period of say three months then you can deem whether he cuts the mustard or not, but the way he has been utilised you can truly judge him because he hasn't had a consistant run.

 

I will close by saying no manager in world fucking football except benitez would have dropped a striker who had scored three goals in two games. NO OTHER MANAGER. rafa has sewn the seeds and he is reaping what he has sewn.

 

The Mancs dropped Tevez after he got 4 this season.

The Chavs dropped the top scorer in the League when someone else was fit

[Brownie]

Rafa has a track record of getting amazing amounts from his players (look at Tenerife or Valencia after he left or the CL winning team incl Traore) & no-one has left him & gone on to do really well.

 

& modern football is a squad game. It is not the old days where being dropped was a massive slur on you.

If he cant handle that, then he is not a player anymore than a golfer who always misses the big puts is a golfer.

 

The people who wanted Keane need to man up & admit they were worng about him rather than blaming Rafa or making spurious excuses.

That happens to the best of them (quite literally: Rafa is the best manager around at the moment &he fucking bought him) with something as unpredicatble as future talent evaluation (ffs even Rashid occasionally got on right & he had also no ability to think issues thru logically)

 

GH showed what happens when you don't admit your mistakes quickly: hopefully Rafa is big enough to admit he got it wrong & move Robbie on

 

(& i dont want to appear smug on Robbie so given that i know you follow the NFL, my big bet this year was selling the Steelers who i confidently predcited would be undone by thei tough schedule!)

 

Playing for Newcastle every week, is far better than Liverpool reserves. Pongolle plays regularly for Atletico Madrid; again that's better than being a bit-part player here.

 

Sissoko plays every week for Juventus. I'm sure there are loads of other examples but that's just off the top of my head. You need to get your head out of Rafa's arse.

[john23liverpool]

I think Keane is, and always has been, massively overrated.

 

You only have to look at his goalscoring record to see that.

 

The most he's ever scored in one league season is 16 goals (in 36 games!). Last season he got 15 in 36 league games.

 

To me, this isnt a £20.3m players scoring record. Robbie Keane is a decent player, i'm not trying to say he's not. Im just saying that he is nowhere near a 20m pound player.

[Brownie]

I think Keane is, and always has been, massively overrated.

 

You only have to look at his goalscoring record to see that.

 

The most he's ever scored in one league season is 16 goals (in 36 games!). Last season he got 15 in 36 league games.

 

To me, this isnt a £20.3m players scoring record. Robbie Keane is a decent player, i'm not trying to say he's not. Im just saying that he is nowhere near a 20m pound player.

 

To be fair, he's a second striker by trade so that's actually a decent goalscoring record for a second striker...

[KevieG]

The Mancs dropped Tevez after he got 4 this season.

The Chavs dropped the top scorer in the League when someone else was fit

 

This obsession with Rafa is just weird

[Brownie]

This obsession with Rafa is just weird

 

Especially considering he keeps going on about the mistakes that Rafa has made.

 

I really don't care what Rafa did at Tenerife because it has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on what he's doing now.

 

If Rafa was to suddenly change his approach to football and let the players go into games with a much more attacking mentality, and stop treating players like robots then I would be absolutely delighted and fully behind the man. I really would.

 

I was delighted with him earlier in the season around the Man City game etc but IMO he's totally wasted that by slipping into old habits.