Where is your plan B, Rafa?

[El Rojo]

Why Liverpool's Rafa Benitez is a master tactician - Liverpool Echo.co.uk

 

That's from a Bitter Blue.

 

How do you explain all them subs getting goals if he's no plan B?

 

That argument doesn't suit this thread's agenda though.

[Monster Masch]

We still don't have a Plan B. It was probably that striker we tried to sign at the end of the transfer window.

 

Plan B is usually needed when your are behind or 0-0 with 60 odd minutes gone playing a mid-table side. So on your bench, ideally, you want three kind of players.

 

1. A striker, preferably large so he can mix it up a bit. Cause a bit of havoc, if you like. Or a Michael Owen - someone who has a knack of scoring goals.

 

2. Pacey winger who will run at defenders and make things happen. Impact sub.

 

3. A player who provide both of these players with quality passes. Capable of the final ball or that killer pass. Pacheco should be this player.

[Delmar]

We could sign Robert Huth. He is a special plan B.

[PaulMcC]

Or pick a system that suits the players and plan A might work.

[dennis tooth]

Kyriagos and Ngog up top of course.

[aws]

Kyriagos and Ngog up top of course.

 

On last night's evidence that Plan B is better than Plan A.

[Whelan]

Impact sub.

 

Ha!

 

[WaltonRed]

shit house bump.

[Trumo]

Ha!

 

 

 

 

She Said.

[Cunny]

we have a plan A?

[Randy Marsh]

Our Plan B is to sit and hope that Plan A suddenly starts working.

[zigackly]

Problem is we chose a replacement with a similar plan A and B to Rafa. If changing the manager was going to work we also had to change the style.

 

I posted this elsewhere earlier, sums up for me what has been going wrong with us for years:

 

"Football is a simple game based on the giving and taking of passes, of controlling the ball and of making yourself available to receive a pass. It is terribly simple."

 

I haven't seen much of last night but from what I've read, we suffered from the exact main problem our teams have all suffered for over ten years: we do not buy players or coach players to make the right movements or give the right passes.

 

This emphasis on defence first and attack as an afterthought is not what the players want, not what the fans want, and it does not get you enough results in English football. We've suffered it through our last two managers and it looks set to continue with the new one.

[Benitaur]

Problem is we chose a replacement with a similar plan A and B to Rafa. If changing the manager was going to work we also had to change the style.

 

I posted this elsewhere earlier, sums up for me what has been going wrong with us for years:

 

"Football is a simple game based on the giving and taking of passes, of controlling the ball and of making yourself available to receive a pass. It is terribly simple."

 

I haven't seen much of last night but from what I've read, we suffered from the exact main problem our teams have all suffered for over ten years: we do not buy players or coach players to make the right movements or give the right passes.

 

This emphasis on defence first and attack as an afterthought is not what the players want, not what the fans want, and it does not get you enough results in English football. We've suffered it through our last two managers and it looks set to continue with the new one.

 

Ah, someone is finally clamouring for Kevin Keegan

[Gary Mac Legend]

"Football is a simple game based on the giving and taking of passes, of controlling the ball and of making yourself available to receive a pass. It is terribly simple."

 

It's really not terribly simple like that. Then again, I imagine you've never experienced football beyond 5 a side?

 

I haven't seen much of last night but from what I've read, we suffered from the exact main problem our teams have all suffered for over ten years: we do not buy players or coach players to make the right movements or give the right passes.

 

The problem is Hodgson's tactics here. He wants us to build and attack high up the pitch, this means our distribution from the back is random and inconsistent, starving our forward players of regular possession in dangerous errors. Bar the final season, Rafa had it mostly right (Not always) with Xabi in the team, we'd build from the back and pick passes. Often with a quick tempo.

 

"This emphasis on defence first and attack as an afterthought is not what the players want, not what the fans want, and it does not get you enough results in English football. We've suffered it through our last two managers and it looks set to continue with the new one.

 

 

You don't know what players want. It does not get you results in English football? I bet Jose Mourinho will argue otherwise. We suffered it through Ged, but even then we qualified for the CL on occasion and finished 2nd in the league one season. With Rafa, we played a more possession based game, but we could definitely mix it up and play with a high tempo as shown on several occasions.

Edited September 23, 2010 by Gary Mac Legend

[zigackly]

Ah, someone is finally clamouring for Kevin Keegan

 

If that's your level of "debate" then you know where you can stick it I reckon.

 

I like a balanced team which can both attack and defend. If you can't have a discussion without misrepresenting me on purpose then what's the point of you?

[zigackly]

It's really not terribly simple like that. Then again, I imagine you've never experienced football beyond 5 a side?

 

Who made that quote, genius? Best if you know whose intelligence you're insulting.

[Gary Mac Legend]

Who made that quote, genius? Best if you know whose intelligence you're insulting.

 

 

So you don't appreciate that football may have changed over the last 30+ years?

[zigackly]

So you don't appreciate that football may have changed over the last 30+ years?

 

It hasn't changed all that much. Watch the teams who look great in attack. They have lots of movement in possession and like to pass and receive the ball.

 

We are a team that has been coached for years almost solely to defend. It's a matter of record that neither Houllier, nor Benitez, nor Hodgson, coach attacking.

 

You can go too far the other way. I understand Wenger and Keegan don't coach defence.

 

What I want is a balanced team. Did I say I wanted to see all out attacking anywhere? Does that quote of Shankly's?

 

I suggest that rather than just arguing black is white on every thread, you would have a longer and happier forum life if you tried engaging with people and discussing stuff occasionally, instead of firing random shots in the dark all the time.

[Gary Mac Legend]

It hasn't changed all that much. Watch the teams who look great in attack. They have lots of movement in possession and like to pass and receive the ball.

 

We are a team that has been coached for years almost solely to defend. It's a matter of record that neither Houllier, nor Benitez, nor Hodgson, coach attacking.

 

You can go too far the other way. I understand Wenger and Keegan don't coach defence.

 

What I want is a balanced team. Did I say I wanted to see all out attacking anywhere? Does that quote of Shankly's?

 

I suggest that rather than just arguing black is white on every thread, you would have a longer and happier forum life if you tried engaging with people and discussing stuff occasionally, instead of firing random shots in the dark all the time.

 

 

 

We've been coached for years almost solely to defend? Was that so when we've been registering some of the highest goals scored and shots made at goal over the years? Are Gerrard, Torres, Kuyt and our other scorers just that good that despite having no coaching in attacking that they are able to score so many goals? Did we beat Real Madrid 4-0 by solely defending?

 

Furthermore, do you work on our coaching staff? A matter of record according to who? Please, do post up your source for that.

 

A balanced team? That is very general, you'll have to elaborate on that.

 

You don't seem to support your claim that defensive football doesn't get you results in this league. I take it you retract that?

 

I make plenty of efforts to discuss the topic at hand.

 

The people who seem to get on well here are the cunts who fire random shots in the dark, Hamstrung for one.

 

Am I not engaging you right now discussing football with you? Yet you're still getting pissy, that's the problem on here.

[Sandman]

Zig is it really a matter of record that Benitez doesn't coach attack? I seem to remember someone from our squad (I forget who exactly) moaning that the attacking plays were drilled incessantly.

 

Also don't think that attacking football played at the tail end of 2008/2009 just happened, that it was Rafa throwing off the shackles so to speak. I think somewhere along the way he made a pragmatic (and often successful) choice to pull back and settle for 'control'.

 

I've been watching some of Inter so far this season, and they're playing some really nice football, unlike last season under Maureen, where the results were great granted, but the football was always dire.

 

I really think it's down to the quality of player available.

[zigackly]

Quite frankly Gary Twat Legend, I don't care to debate with idiots. Have fun now.

[theghost]

As things change, so they stay the same.

[Gary Mac Legend]

Quite frankly Gary Twat Legend, I don't care to debate with idiots. Have fun now.

 

Ahh yes, doing exactly what you told me not to.

 

Pot, Kettle, black.

 

P.S - In future, if you run out of things to say, just concede the debate. Less rude than calling me names xx

[zigackly]

Ahh yes, doing exactly what you told me not to.

 

Pot, Kettle, black.

 

P.S - In future, if you run out of things to say, just concede the debate. Less rude than calling me names xx

 

I thought you liked it? Why start off a discussion that way if not?

 

And I've got plenty to say, just not to random gobshites who start off with insults and then pretend they've "won" when people don't want to play their stupid game.

[Gary Mac Legend]

I thought you liked it? Why start off a discussion that way if not? And I've got plenty to say, just not to random gobshites who start off with insults and then pretend they've "won".

 

 

Go review my initial post.

 

I'm not pretending I've won, we were having a debate about our football style and what's wrong with us. You got very sour, and starting slinging insults.

 

I engaged you in a discussion about football, and you just randomly called me 'Gary Twat Legend' and said you wouldn't debate with me. Literally out of nowhere, classy.

 

By the way, just for reference, my stupid game being football discussions right?