Labour Leadership Contest

[dennis tooth]

Jeremy Corbyn would clear the deficit – but not by hitting the poor

 

John McDonnell

 

As people wake up to the prospect of Jeremy Corbyn actually being able to win the Labour leadership, the reaction has become increasingly hysterical, especially from elements of the Labour establishment.

 

The near panic is especially evident in its response to the strategy outlined by Corbyn’s team of economic advisers.

 

A small band of shadow cabinet members have lined up to refuse to serve in posts they haven’t even been offered, on the basis of objection to economic policies they clearly haven’t read. Rebukes to Labour supporters to end their summer of “craziness” also not only insult the intelligence, idealism and judgment of our party members but have simply made them more determined to challenge this heavy-handed, domineering establishment attitude.

 

Some commentators have also prophesied economic and electoral doom if Corbyn is elected. Let’s see if, at least on economic policy, we can return to some level of rational debate. Let’s start by tracing out where there is absolute agreement.

 

First, it is unarguable that no modern party leader can win an election if behind in the polls on economic competence. Ed Miliband, sadly, was proof of this truism. Second, deficit denial is a non-starter for anyone to have any economic credibility with the electorate. This was a key finding of the poll recently published by Jon Cruddas, examining why Labour lost the election.

 

So let me make it absolutely clear that Labour under Jeremy Corbyn is committed to eliminating the deficit and creating an economy in which we live within our means.

 

Where the Corbyn campaign parts company with the dominant economic thinking of both the Conservative government and the other Labour leadership candidates is that we don’t believe that the vast majority of middle- and low-income earners who didn’t cause the economic crisis should have to pay for it through cuts in tax credits, pay freezes, and cuts in essential services. Instead we believe we can tackle the deficit by halting the tax cuts to the very rich and to corporations, by making sure they pay their taxes, and by investing in the housing and infrastructure a modern country needs to get people back to work in good jobs.

 

We accept that cuts in public spending will help eliminate the deficit, but our cuts won’t be to the middle-and low-income earners and certainly not to the poor. Our cuts will be to the subsidies paid to landlords milking the housing benefit system, to the £93bn in subsidies to corporations, and to employers exploiting workers with low wages and leaving the rest of us to pick up the tab.

 

Where we also part company with the economic orthodoxy of the Conservative and Labour establishments is that alongside tackling the deficit we also believe that we need an economic strategy to tackle the underlying flawed fundamentals of our economic system.

 

While our opponents wrongfully accuse anyone who disagrees with their austerity programmes as deficit deniers, they themselves seem to be crisis deniers. They fail to understand that the unregulated, law-of-the-jungle market system they advocate is inherently crisis-ridden. Unless we act on these fundamental flaws we really do doom the next and future generations to further inevitable crises.

 

In fact all the factors that caused the 2007-8 crisis are currently reappearing on the scene – frozen or low incomes, low productivity, asset inflation especially in housing, a hands-off government turning a blind eye to loose credit expansion and City speculation, and a growing debt bubble.

 

 

Just like 2007 all it needs is a spark like Northern Rock to set things off again. The rehypothecation taking place in the bond markets could be the trigger this time, when the US starts unwinding its quantitative easing programme.

 

So alongside deficit elimination, the Corbyn campaign is advocating a fundamental reform of our economic system. This will include the introduction of an effective regulatory regime for our banks and financial sector; a full-blownGlass-Steagall system to separate day-to-day and investment banking; legislation to replace short-term shareholder value with long-term sustainable economic and social responsibilities as the prime objective of companies; radical reform of the failed auditing regime; the extension of a wider range of forms of company and enterprise ownership and control including public, co-operative and stakeholder ownership; and the introduction of a financial transactions tax to fund the rebalancing of our economy towards production and manufacturing.

 

Public ownership does have an important role to play, but this will be through smart forms of 21st-century common ownership and control. For example, rail will be renationalised, but with a form of joint management involving workers and passenger representatives. Energy would be socialised from below by the massive expansion of renewable energy production and supply by local communities, local authorities and co-ops on the successful German model, removing the monopoly of the big six energy companies.

 

Conservatives claim they are “one nation” Tories when they have actually been a government for the 1% who have undermined our economic interests through their greed.

 

Politicians have patronised and talked down to us all when it comes to our economy, but ordinary working people have to manage on incomes significantly lower than the likes of George Osborne and his friends in the City. They could teach the bankers and many commentators a thing or two about managing a budget responsibly. Given the opportunity, we will use the sound common sense of our people.

 

A naive articlle that assumes the media, banks, financial services and rich elites are gonna just sit back and accept corbyns policies his own party wont as its filled with people in hock to all that who will defy him.

These rich powerful people will cause a crisis in response the same way syrizia got delt wit. The pound plummets multinationals pull out, jobs go and a big jobless mass of people will wake up blaming corbyn, thats the great beautiful ugliness of this system of electing people the elites have all the tools to win, to ensure also that you have just enough hope to keep being dazzled by the lights enough to put your next pound in the rigged fruit machine.

No question from corbyns people about whether austerity should exist at all, i thought the banks were gonna pay us back for the taxpayer money they took, if so, theres no need to sign up to austerity as corbyn has done.

[dennis tooth]

People should be challenged to name these crazy left wing policies when they are openly talking shit.

I see that Cruddas' new data shows that Labour lost out to the "selfish cretin" section of society. No worries. Just need to explain to them, in however a cynical way necessary, that social democracy leads to a better world for them.

Or if you're too cowardly to do that...slink off to years of defeats on Tory home battlefields.

Selfish cretins?

He can tell what motives everyone voted from can he? From polling data?

 

So we should have voted for milliband, who would be and was a complete utter disaster of a fucking campaign mate no one was ever gonna vote for a complete utter lemon with shit for brains, youd have got more votes with a sack of cement with a face drawn on it it worked for the tories.

His policies were to the right of cameron if you look properly.

You laud what you call democracy on one hand and call people selfish for taking part if they disagree with you just shows your either a complete idiot who cant grasp the meaning or a fraud.

[dennis tooth]

Spot on Lizzie. They would be digging their own grave going against what the majority of their core supporters vote for and believe in. 

 

If ever there was an appropriate opportunity for a new left wing party to form it is now.

 

The true left doesnt agree with the idea of parties since theyre undemocratic and exclusionist by nature.

[Guest Pistonbroke]

The true left doesnt agree with the idea of parties since theyre undemocratic and exclusionist by nature.

 

Well this is a political thread and not one for punks and anarchists. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

People should be challenged to name these crazy left wing policies when they are openly talking shit.

 

I see that Cruddas' new data shows that Labour lost out to the "selfish cretin" section of society. No worries. Just need to explain to them, in however a cynical way necessary, that social democracy leads to a better world for them.

 

Or if you're too cowardly to do that...slink off to years of defeats on Tory home battlefields.

That Cruddas bullshit is annoying - not only in its intent (to undermine Corbyn and to boost the New Labour candidates), but also in its methods (the misuse of survey data, drawing spurious conclusions and presenting them as "truth").

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/florian-foos/labour-general-election_b_7943638.html

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Don't know why the Burnham video arsed up. You can see it on another page anyway.

Only two YouTube clips per post.

 

Comrade Dave's rules.

[Ginny]

I don't really understand politics. But people are saying its a waste of time Corbyn getting into a leadership position as he'll never make it to number 10 - "we need someone in number 10" etc...

 

What's the deal with this guy Corbyn? Can he be prime minister or what like?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

I don't really understand politics. But people are saying its a waste of time Corbyn getting into a leadership position as he'll never make it to number 10 - "we need someone in number 10" etc...

 

What's the deal with this guy Corbyn? Can he be prime minister or what like?

He's got a better chance than any of the three drones he's up against.

[Creator Supreme]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33896414?post_id=10207376870608804_10207707708079534#_=_

 

 

 

Words fail me!!

[Bobby Hundreds]

Jesus christ they preach democracy unless the outcome isn't in their interests. The people should shape the party by voting according to who they favour and the party bigwigs should shut the fuck up and accept their lot, if they don't like it leave the party, get your power hardons for the Tory's if they will allow your ilk in. Labour has no god given right to be in contention for power. At least the Tory's, the lib dems the greens even fucking Ukip have some kind of fucking ideology of their own, Labour are just power at any costs, no values don't form opinions just shadow the tories and hope we can pull a popular policy out of the bag that won't shake things up too much, a lot of the MP's are nothing but careerists finding safeseats and furthering their own personal futures. MP wife cleavage can go fuck himself too.

[Anubis]

Love the way the BBC casually say 'numerous' MP's have called for the leadership election to be postponed when in fact, at last count, I think it was four.

 

Does Blair not realise that he's been one of Corbyn's biggest recruiting sergeants.

[Jairzinho]

He is theve

[magicrat]

I don't think Corbyn has a prayer of winning an election . The Tories managed to demonize Miliband , they will have Corbyn portrayed as the Antichrist in about 10 minutes flat . He is however the likely choice of the rank of file of the party and cunts like Blair should shut the fuck up .

I would rather he wins and there is an honest debate about real socialist policies rather than a Tory lite party under any of the other candidates.

The plight of young people struggling for decent jobs and shut out of the housing market should be highlighted and if Corbyn manages to energise and get them engaged in the political process he may leave a valuable legacy and ultimately secure them a better deal. I think he may also swing the party behind PR which will be supported by all except the Tories .Its a matter of time before FPTP is voted down as you just cant have legitimate one party government securing just 35 % of the votes cast .    

[Anubis]

Medialens tweet

 

This full spectrum media assault on #Corbyn is amazing. But note key point - the other candidates are getting almost NO serious criticism.

9:26pm - 12 Aug 15

[Jairzinho]

He is theve

 

Good post, mate.

 

My phone, it appears, has got Blair aids.

[Arl arse]

Those pulling the strings behind all these puppets continue to distract the masses with the illusion of choice.

 

Then no matter which candidate gets in, joe public gets bent over and fisted....

 

Rinse & repeat.

[Gnasher]

I agree with the Labour Mps who say scrap the contest and have a re run. If that dos'nt pan out, scrap it again and have another re run, and so on The whole fucking country will end up subscribed to the Labour Party, with exactly the same result.

[Dr Nowt]

David Schneider ‏@davidschneider 2h2 hours ago

We've seen it before, Blair:

1 "Corbyn can destroy Labour within 45 minutes"

2 We invade Corbyn

3 Corbyn even more of a threat than before.

[Dr Nowt]

[RoboRiise]

Burnam and the others have swallowed the spiel that Miliband lost because he was too left wing, he never, he lost because he looked daft eating a bacon sandwich -  it really is that simple, this is the country we live in. 

 

So true, the Tories could have used a five minute video of Leon Brittan and Ted Heath raping Cameron dressed as a schoolboy for their last party political and the'd have still won after Ed couldn't manage to gracefully eat a bacon butty.

 

Trouble is, Corbyn might well win the leadership election, the polls suggest that he will, but he has about as much chance of winning a general election as my left nad.  The minute you build a platform on actually engaging with an issue and coming to a reasoned conclusion rather than simple concepts such as 'foreigners are bad', 'the NHS is good' or 'benefit claimants should be euthanised' you're instantly limiting your potential appeal to maybe 20% of the 50% who will bother their arse to vote.

 

The one who has come out of this looking like the choice if you want to give Labour the best chance of an election win is (surprisingly) Cooper in my opinion.  Enough of a centrist to avoid completely alienating wavering voters, Labour enough by today's standards to keep the current Labour voters on board and selling the 'hard-working families' angle hard.  The fact she's a woman needs to be factored in too.  By the next election it will be 30 years since one of the major parties had a female leader at a general election; that's an entire generation of women who have grown up and had families of their own without ever having the chance to vote for a woman PM.  If she can tap into that, Cameron (or God forbid, that pantomime oaf Johnson) could have a problem.

 

You could make the same point about Liz Kendall but in the real world Nick Griffin would probably have more chance of winning the Labour leadership than her.  The funniest thing about this campaign is that people's initial perceptions of who would be the joke candidate were badly off target.

 

Burnham is the safety first option.  White, mid forties, wife and kids, a bit blokey, solid support across the middle of the party, inoffensive and you just know he could eat the fuck out of a bacon butty.  I bet he doesn't even have beans on a fry up.  If he was to win, I don't think the next election would come down to him at all but rather whether enough people were sufficiently sick of Cameron or, if f he quits, sufficiently horrified at the prospect of electing a man who has stepped fully formed from the pages of a PG Wodehouse novel.  Burnham would just be the other guy.  'Who did I vote for?  I voted for Not-Boris.'

 

Self interest makes me pray for an electable leader.  My pay rises were capped at a maximum of 1% when this shower of cunts got in and after five years of that, they announced in the summer budget that it will continue until 2020.  My standard of living has gone backwards at a rate of knots in the last five years and considering this year's pay rise is a whopping £160 before tax and I'm still less than halway up the payscale for my job despite having been doing it for 11 years in November, it's not going to be changing any time soon.  I don't mean I can't afford that Porsche just yet, I'm currently weighing up whether I can justify another year's tax, MOT and insurance for my 18 year old car.

 

That is why every time I see Cameron or Osbourne say 'Britain needs a pay rise' I fantasise about dissecting them with a chainsaw.  It seemingly applies to everybody other than the people who are tasked with actually implementing their shite.

 

I'd love to have the luxury of voting based on high-minded principles but you know what?  I can't carry on pulling my tripes out at work and getting fucked up the arse for it by the same cunts who I'm working for, the first thing I need is money in my fucking pocket.

[Stu Monty]

I'm genuinely not convinced that the three candidates that seem to have very little appetite for going to war on the narratives of Neoliberalism have a better chance of winning an election.

 

Every single one of them will be called extreme left regardless, so why not be hung for a sheep, not a lamb?

[Gnasher]

I'm genuinely not convinced that the three candidates that seem to have very little appetite for going to war on the narratives of Neoliberalism have a better chance of winning an election.

 

Every single one of them will be called extreme left regardless, so why not be hung for a sheep, not a lamb?

It's true, they would be crushed whoever won. Shame Ed's right wing brother didnt win the leadership, he would have also got hammered but at least it might have shut them up.

 

My fear is Corbyn winning, getting crushed at the next election (which he will) when Murdoch gives full page airtime to the mothers who's kids lost lives to the IRA) and then Labour will never again pick a left wing candidate.

[RoboRiise]

I'm genuinely not convinced that the three candidates that seem to have very little appetite for going to war on the narratives of Neoliberalism have a better chance of winning an election.

 

Every single one of them will be called extreme left regardless, so why not be hung for a sheep, not a lamb?

 

I'm just not convinced that anything like enough people in this country give a flying fuck about 'going to war on the forces of neoliberalism' for it to be any kind of factor in winning the next election Stu.  Possibly there will be more in 5 years time. I'd be surprised if there's enough though.

 

I know people hate the narrative that a left-wing candidate can't win a general election but I see nothing at all around me in daily life that makes me disbelieve it.  That's just realism.  Principles are great mate but I can't take them to the bank and pay my bills with them, one more Tory government after this one and I might as well just fucking gas myself.

[Red Phoenix]

What if Corbyn is the Devil, and Blair is just out there in the media doing reverse psychology on us?

[Jairzinho]

I'm just not convinced that anything like enough people in this country give a flying fuck about 'going to war on the forces of neoliberalism' for it to be any kind of factor in winning the next election Stu.  Possibly there will be more in 5 years time. I'd be surprised if there's enough though.

 

I know people hate the narrative that a left-wing candidate can't win a general election but I see nothing at all around me in daily life that makes me disbelieve it.  That's just realism.  Principles are great mate but I can't take them to the bank and pay my bills with them, one more Tory government after this one and I might as well just fucking gas myself.

 

Do you think Cooper would win the next election?