The Atomic bombing of Nagasaki

[mattyq]

Yes, you can.

 

Unless we're also not going to judge concentration camps for the same reason.

 

Morality hasn't changed that dramatically.

Well you can but you'd be wasting your time

What the Nazis did was just as morally reprehensible then as it is now

Dropping the Atomic bombs was a great evil but it was a lesser evil than the alternative, in my opinion

[Dr Nowt]

Used to think 'Fat Man and Little Boy' was a documentary on Cyril Smith.

 

Everyday's a school day.

[dennis tooth]

Well you can but you'd be wasting your time

What the Nazis did was just as morally reprehensible then as it is now

Dropping the Atomic bombs was a great evil but it was a lesser evil than the alternative, in my opinion

Which was what, blockade japan with no fuel and running out of food until subdued enough by that and being the last man standing on the losing side surrender its islands hardly constitued a threat to russia the usa china us and all the other allies. Where was the actual need to invade? We could have offered food and supplies to anyone in the populace who surrended and came off the island to drop a nuke without warning is betterthan the simple solution?

[RedKnight]

The bombing campaign for Normandy and D-Day had a level of 'acceptable' civilian casualties and the number was quite high. 

[dennis tooth]

I think you can say that about any conflict and any beligerant action though. If I use my howitzers to obliterate an SS division in the snow, is that okay until someone brings me back some family photographs that reveals they're not armed combatants but in fact, 17-year-old brothers and sons?

We were bombing German cities for years, we didn't give a fuck about their pubs and schools because they didn't give a fuck about ours.

If I go into a pub fight with the aim of not killing someone. If he pulls a knife and tries to stab me, my own compunctions about what I am and am not willing to do to survive would change rapidly.

If your geandad or uncle would have been killed invading Japan, only for your nan to find out the allies had a secret weapon that could have ended it sooner, you might have a different view.

But by your logic the japanese must have dropped two nukes on the usa surrounded on all sides at some point in the war and I dont recall this event?

Im a lot more liberal on my views on dresden as they bombed our cities and it was unclear from what i know to what extent it was a war crime given germany did require invasion but nukes on on a different scale to beheadings no matter what twisted demonisation is applied killing the people responsible for decision didnt make it for the reasons stated from their mouths it was more to do with russia and also an experiment of the effects on a populace before the chance was lost.

[Bjornebye]

Child murdering bastards.

[mattyq]

Which was what, blockade japan with no fuel and running out of food until subdued enough by that and being the last man standing on the losing side surrender its islands hardly constitued a threat to russia the usa china us and all the other allies. Where was the actual need to invade? We could have offered food and supplies to anyone in the populace who surrended and came off the island to drop a nuke without warning is betterthan the simple solution?

So allowing millions to starve to death would be totally cool with you?

Righto

[dennis tooth]

So allowing millions to starve to death would be totally cool with you?

Righto

Be good point if Id said that.

[Boss]

Holy fuck reading this thread is disturbing. I agree with Neko 100%, looking at historical events with a modern perspective is utterly pointless and perverse. 

 

You can call the dropping of the atomic bombs a war crime if you want. But then you start having to call the traditional bombing of Tokyo as a War Crime or the British bombing of Dresden. Not to forget the whole concept of a war crime is absurd and totally arbitrary.

 

It is a fact that an invasion of the Japanese mainland would of caused hundreds of thousands of casualties (conservative estimate), if not millions. Not just of Allied and Japanese military personnel, but the majority would of been Japanese civilians.

 

The casualty rate for Japanese civilians on Okinawa was around 33%. Which would of been a lot higher on the mainland, considering as the Japanese home islands(main islands) viewed the Okinawans as not proper Japanese.

So the bombs saved lives and shortened the war, SUCH A CRIME.

 

And yes the Japanese really do need to apologise properly to the Chinese, who they were at war with from 1937 and caused the death of more Chinese then the total sum of holocaust & Soviet deaths.

 

I understand what you're saying but killing civilians purposely should be a war crime full stop. Having control of a space age weapon that can vaporise people and launching it on largely populated urban areas is a war crime, no different to Saddam using chemical weapons on the Kurds or the Third Reich being put on trial at Nuremberg.

 

America's been involved in loads of war crimes that seemingly never get punished, the use of agent orange in Vietnam, the use of Napalm in Vietnam, the use of depleted uranium shells and dirty bombs, the nuclear bombing of Japan, all the covert operations overseas to assassinate leaders, the military funding of extremist groups, funding MOSSAD and the Israeli army to commit terrible atrocities, starving 100,000's of german POW's in the Rheinwiesenlager transit camps, taking the skulls of Japanese war dead home as souvenirs after WW2 etc. Hitler was right when he said "History is written by the winners."

[Rico1304]

I understand what you're saying but killing civilians purposely should be a war crime full stop. Having control of a space age weapon that can vaporise people and launching it on largely populated urban areas is a war crime, no different to Saddam using chemical weapons on the Kurds or the Third Reich being put on trial at Nuremberg.

 

America's been involved in loads of war crimes that seemingly never get punished, the use of agent orange in Vietnam, the use of Napalm in Vietnam, the use of depleted uranium shells and dirty bombs, the nuclear bombing of Japan, all the covert operations overseas to assassinate leaders, the military funding of extremist groups, funding MOSSAD and the Israeli army to commit terrible atrocities, starving 100,000's of german POW's in the Rheinwiesenlager transit camps, taking the skulls of Japanese war dead home as souvenirs after WW2 etc. Hitler was right when he said "History is written by the winners."

Never let the truth get in the way of a rant. Fact check each of your claims.

[Boss]

Never let the truth get in the way of a rant. Fact check each of your claims.

 

Name me an example of the war crimes that's wrong then.

[Jairzinho]

I understand what you're saying but killing civilians purposely should be a war crime full stop. Having control of a space age weapon that can vaporise people and launching it on largely populated urban areas is a war crime, no different to Saddam using chemical weapons on the Kurds or the Third Reich being put on trial at Nuremberg.

 

America's been involved in loads of war crimes that seemingly never get punished, the use of agent orange in Vietnam, the use of Napalm in Vietnam, the use of depleted uranium shells and dirty bombs, the nuclear bombing of Japan, all the covert operations overseas to assassinate leaders, the military funding of extremist groups, funding MOSSAD and the Israeli army to commit terrible atrocities, starving 100,000's of german POW's in the Rheinwiesenlager transit camps, taking the skulls of Japanese war dead home as souvenirs after WW2 etc. Hitler was right when he said "History is written by the winners."

 

Have you read Rogue State (William Blum)?

[Rico1304]

Name me an example of the war crimes that's wrong then.

Well none of the things you've stated is a war crime.

[Red Phoenix]

Well none of the things you've stated is a war crime.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rico1304]

imagine proving me wrong rather than embedding daft clips.

[Red Phoenix]

imagine proving me wrong rather than embedding daft clips.

If you can't see any war crimes in that list Boss has posted, then I'll make fucking sure not to waste my time even debating it with you.

[Boss]

Have you read Rogue State (William Blum)?

 

I haven't actually, but looking at the summary of it on amazon it looks very interesting, would you recommend it?

[Jairzinho]

I haven't actually, but looking at the summary of it on amazon it looks very interesting, would you recommend it?

 

Yes, mate. 

 

You'll be familiar with a lot of the content, as I was, but the extent of the depravity is staggering.

[Boss]

imagine proving me wrong rather than embedding daft clips.

 

For a start the Rheinweisenlager transit camps was an American war crime because their starvation of the German captives is in violation of international law. Eisenhower specifically asked for them "not to be allowed shelter or other comforts" and upwards of 10,000 of them died from lack of food and water. Secondly the mutilation of Japanese soldiers bodies during World War 2 is a war crime as well because it's banned by military law, it's a crime codified in the Hague and Geneva conventions.

 

https://www.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docs/v1_cha_chapter35_rule113#refFn_63_9

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_mutilation_of_Japanese_war_dead

 

Also Napalm bombs are banned by the Geneva convention so yes thats technically committing a war crime as well.

"It is under all circumstances prohibited and forbidden, to target and attack the civilian population, single civilians or any civil objects with incendiary firebombs." Prof. Hans-Joachim Heintze , University Bochum : "Napalm-Bombs are against the international law, they are banned by the Geneva-Conventions.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ev2dEqrN4i0

 

 

Bombing a village with Napalm is a war crime and so it should be. 

[Rico1304]

There, that wasn't too hard was it? I didn't know about the camps, thanks, very interesting.

 

Napalm wasn't outlawed until 1980 and you talk about the taking of trophies as if it was official policy rather than something the U.S. tried to stop and prosecuted the idiots who were caught .

[Boss]

There, that wasn't too hard was it? I didn't know about the camps, thanks, very interesting.

 

Napalm wasn't outlawed until 1980 and you talk about the taking of trophies as if it was official policy rather than something the U.S. tried to stop and prosecuted the idiots who were caught .

 

Well it obviously wasn't official policy but neither was chopping Chinese peoples heads off with samurai swords in Nanking, it's still a war crime. The Americans also used firebombs during the Iraq War, the Mark 77 bomb.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_77_bomb

 

http://www.iraqanalysis.org/publications/232

 

so if Napalm was banned in 1980 by the United Nations it still hasn't stopped them using incendiary fire bombs, which for all intents and purposes is Napalm just by a different name.

[Rico1304]

Where any Japanese prosecuted by their own government for lopping heads off?

 

I'm not sure of your point on the bombs.

[Boss]

Where any Japanese prosecuted by their own government for lopping heads off?

 

I'm not sure of your point on the bombs.

 

Yes, they were both extradited and stood trial for war crimes before being hung.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contest_to_kill_100_people_using_a_sword#Trial_and_execution

 

The US military slapped a few soldiers on the wrist and told them not to do it again. Even Roosevelt had a knife given to him made out of the arm bone from a Japanese soldier which he remarked "this is the kind of present i like to get" and Life magazine published this in 1944

 

 

A woman writing to her hubby in the Navy thanking him for sending her a Japanese mans skull. I'm not sure but i don't think anyone in the US Army was ever prosecuted for it.

[moof]

That's not a Japanese man's skull, the eyes are too round.

[Stickman]

That's not a Japanese man's skull, the eyes are too round.

Bloody Lacist...