There is something wrong with our defence

[stringvest]

Self-appointed moral guardians rarely notice such subtleties.  Probably all the foaming, fuming, steaming and what not.

 

I've tried the hat on, and it doesn't fit.  Too small.  Why don't you give it a try, Speedy?

[skend04]

Has anyone actually come out and said he should be sacked? Genuine question.

I'll stick my head above the parapet and go on record as saying if we don't get 4th at the end of the season and there's no improvement in the basics of defending then Rodgers should be sacked. 3 seasons and £215m is ample to at least see continuous improvements to the team and squad.

[VladimirIlyich]

Just having Carra around our defenders in training would improve them, they would learn about leadership, organisation and commitment - as well as being fucking slaughtered for fucking up.

 

It's a no brainer to me and we should do it.

Its a whole different dynamic planning,communicating and analysing coaching sessions and I have no idea what Carra is like as a coach so while your point is extremely valid its dependent more on his coaching ability for me.

 

Carragher is a very savvy fella and you can see this from his work on telly but is he good enough and committed enough to follow Rodgers lead on the staff?

[Frank Dacey]

I haven't read the whole thread so I don't know if this point has been made but might it be an idea to think about zonal marking? It would have the merit of forcing our defenders to stop wrestling their opponents and actually look at the ball. They might then head it clear.

[an tha]

Its a whole different dynamic planning,communicating and analysing coaching sessions and I have no idea what Carra is like as a coach so while your point is extremely valid its dependent more on his coaching ability for me.

 

Carragher is a very savvy fella and you can see this from his work on telly but is he good enough and committed enough to follow Rodgers lead on the staff?

Fair enough point. Personally I would say he would be though. I would also say that it couldn't make them any worse than they are now - although to be fair all the coaching in the world can't legislate for brain farts and a lack of reaction, which are often our biggest problems defensively.

[Hooch]

What do people think of the idea of dropping Gerrard back into defense?

[Section_31]

What do people think of the idea of dropping Gerrard back into defense?

 

To be honest I always thought that's where he'd end up, but I don't think he's mobile enough for this system, if you've got no pace in this back four you'll just get skinned because of the way we play so high and with such large gaps between the defenders.

 

It has to be said though, he's probably the best right back we've had in decades, surprised he's not been played there more.

[mouse1989]

He's not played Rb because he's still been the best midfielder we've had

[Hooch]

I know that the system we play is certainly not helping the current back four nor would it help a back four with Gerrard in it either, but I think he'd bring a bit of organisation and leadership to close those gaps between the defenders you speak of, and also help settle the likes of Lovren and Mignolet a little. Re. his pace I reckon he's still as quick as Lovren and Sakho.

 

He commands the respect of the players already, something Skrtel/Lovren/Sakho do not, and such would be able to call the shots from the off.

Also from the back you do get more time to see what is going on around you, he'd be able to order a Can or a Lucas into the right places at the right time, something I'd imagine Skrtel/Lovren have possibly been too scared to call Gerrard on at times.

 

As you say he was an outstanding right back, he could be outstanding in any position because he just gets the game of football. 

[TheHowieLama]

Might change the title to simply - "There is something wrong".

[VladimirIlyich]

Henderson is also a very good right back.

Are we playing them out of position or by having such averageness there regularly for many seasons (yes you Glen Johnson) have we just accepted a lower standard as the norm?

Maybe Manquillo will raise the standard? Looking good so far.

[diamondjoe]

What do people think of the idea of dropping Gerrard back into defense?

 

Could try him as the right sided defender in a 3-5-2 along with lovren and skrtel? 

[Paco]

I quit playing football about 5 years ago. ended up playing left back for the worst team in the amateur league. I wasnt a defender and as I ended my playing days to compensate for how rubbish I d become and in preparation for the coaching roles I have gone on to have I started looking at what our manager was doing particularly in training as he worked on a few things to try and make us stop conceding so many goals.The thing was he didn't have a clue what he was doing and to be fair he was trying to drill a back 4 who didn't know how to play those positions.

 

I spoke to a mate of mine who was assistant manager at a fairly successful amateur team and we talked about who should pick up who and who should be free but as I continued to grill him he said 'you have to get yourself a good centre half and he ll organise the defence for you'.

 

is that it? is that what happens at every level of football? thinking back to houllier and what he inherited james babb kvarme matteo Bjornebye staunton heggem and ince in front of them. he had a look at what he had over a season and a bit brought in hyypia and hamann at the start of his first full season but still couldnt make anything out of most of what he had inherited so brought in westerweld henchoz ziege and babbel eventually replacing the last 2 with riise and finnan.

 

rafas trophy years were built on houlliers defence but he brought in mauricio pellegrino to help instill his ideas and eventually phased most of them out. Hodgson inherited skrtel carra agger johnson and added his own man konchesky to help get his ideas across. dalglish got rid of hodgsons man and brought in steve clarke to work with what was there. brendan tried to bring ashley williams to organise the defence the way he worked at swansea.

 

so what is the manager or coaches role here? have they stumbled upon good defenders at other clubs who can organise that end for them and then they bring them in wherever they go because its not possible to coach them into being good defenders within their system.

 

will klopp be able to coach what he has here or will be buying from dortmund or elsewhere until he gets what he needs to sort out our defensive issues?

[3 Stacks]

Good post, and story. I personally think it's a bit of a waste of time to try to coach defenders to do things your way if they don't have the immediate qualities you seek. For example, if Klopp wants to play a high line then I think he should get rid of Martin Skrtel right away because he has always been a last ditch defender who likes to drop deep and I don't think he has the qualities to ever be effective as a front foot defender.

 

With cases like Lovren and Sakho who are in their mid-twenties, are more athletic and have a more aggressive style, I think there are things there that Klopp can work with. Therefore, I can see both of them staying if they can avoid making tons of mistakes for the rest of the year. Joel Matip is another defender who has a similar defending style to Lovren and Sakho in that he likes to nick the ball off attackers early.

 

So imo, Klopp will keep any defender who he feels has the right qualities and who would be worth his time to try to mould. 

[Paco]

forgot we d all but signed matip already who is obviously a player he thinks can make the transition from germany to england and plays in a style he likes. I keep making the comparison with houllier because he took over a third pf the wau through a season so had the rest of that season to evaluate what he had. he only kept carragher and brought Stephen wright (just remembered my mate used to call him monkey horse) through. similarly you can see randall and smith possibly having futures here because they re young and havent played first team under a load of different managers with different styles. The difference of course is that goal scoring wasnt a big problem for the team houllier inherited. he only really had to sort out defence. klopp has to sort out both ends and probably midfield as well.

[TheHowieLama]

is that it?

 

Erm no.

That is why your mate is coaching amateurs. More often than not at the higher levels of the game the quality of the fullbacks in both directions is what separates teams.

 

Check back with your mate in a few years and see how his career is going.

[Paco]

Erm no.

That is why your mate is coaching amateurs. More often than not at the higher levels of the game the quality of the fullbacks in both directions is what separates teams.

 

Check back with your mate in a few years and see how his career is going.

well why cant they coach players they have when they come to a new club? There must have been about 20 defenders here when houllier arrived and he kept a couple of young ones. rafa had to bring in pellegrino to help him get his idea across. Hodgson had to bring in konchesky to show a champions league winner how to defend. so at amateur or premier league level you ve got managers bringing in players they think know how to defend so they can do that part of their job for them.

[TheHowieLama]

Cuz you don't coach that position and no one said there are alot of good ones around - that is why they make the difference

[Rotpeter]

The master at work:

 

[VladimirIlyich]

The master at work:

 

Love that video. Used to watch it over and over. Very simple yet effective. Still got it in my VHS cassette library.

[Paco]

try doing that with 14 year olds

[Paco]

Actually, there's only 3, I miscounted. In 12 of 15 games where Liverpool conceded, the opposition scored with their first shot on target.

 

— Andrew Beasley (@BassTunedToRed) Mon Jan 18 14:22:24 +0000 2016

[moof]

Actually, there's only 3, I miscounted. In 12 of 15 games where Liverpool conceded, the opposition scored with their first shot on target.

 

— Andrew Beasley (@BassTunedToRed) Mon Jan 18 14:22:24 +0000 2016

That is ridiculous

[TheHowieLama]

He said zonal

[an tha]

Fella loses me at times as he over elaborates but i think what he is getting at here is we are a little team of shithouses...

 

http://tomkinstimes.com/2016/01/klopp-given-the-smallest-liverpool-squad-ever/