henderson and adam

[zico]

Adam is completely shit. We should take any offer that gives us profit on the deal.

Henderson has potential. He was good yesterday, although still not positive enough in his play. He should be getting beyond defenders more, playing longer passes, if they're on, instead of keeping it safe everytime.

 

What pay is he on? Are there any teams that can affort him now or are we stuck with him like a lot of the players we still pay salaries to at other clubs?

[xerxes]

What pay is he on? Are there any teams that can affort him now or are we stuck with him like a lot of the players we still pay salaries to at other clubs?

 

I understand that he is on 40k a week (he was on 15k at Blackpool).

 

I imagine that a Bolton/ Wigan/ Blackburn would still see him a s a £3m/£4m , 20k a week proposition.

 

My own view is that Adam is well worth a place in a balanced midfield.

[Whelan]

adam has 2 goals and 6 assists

henderson has 1 goal and 1 assist

 

How many are from open play? Not dismissing it, but I can't remember him creating anything other than from corners and free kicks!

 

I understand that he is on 40k a week (he was on 15k at Blackpool).

 

I imagine that a Bolton/ Wigan/ Blackburn would still see him a s a £3m/£4m , 20k a week proposition.

 

My own view is that Adam is well worth a place in a balanced midfield.

 

He is cover, and he is a blind spot. Not good enough, and unlike the other players bought this summer, he thinks he is. Greedy, slow, and a defensive liability.

[KevieG]

Adam has obvious limitations but he is a 6 million pound player and we are getting more or less what we paid for. His mentality is great, its just that he needs to realise what he can and can't do. I find it hard to criticise him too much when he continually shows for the ball and tries to make things happen. He had a stinker in the second half on Saturday.

 

Henderson was probably in the top 3 players on Saturday. More of that and he'll be fine. The goal seemed to lift him, he was actually demanding the ball at times. I still can't decide if there is a really top player in there but unlike Adam, its his mentality he needs to work on.

[xerxes]

He (Adam) is cover, and he is a blind spot. Not good enough, and unlike the other players bought this summer, he thinks he is. Greedy, slow, and a defensive liability.

 

Not good enough for what?

 

He is good enough for a EL finish, LC win and at the very least a good FA Cup run.

 

If we are talking CL quality, I agree he isn’t up to that, but then again neither are most of the current side.

 

Defensively he has been part of a unit which is one of the tightest in the Division, pace is not part of his game, nor is it integral to the way we currently play in the middle. He has been recruited to pass through- not run through.

 

When you analyse the calibre of all of Kenny’s signings they were recruited to deliver EL football and domestic cup runs – job done. If we want to challenge for the CL we will have to buy again, IF FSG will do so.

[Whelan]

Not good enough for what?

 

He is good enough for a EL finish, LC win and at the very least a good FA Cup run.

 

If we are talking CL quality, I agree he isn’t up to that, but then again neither are most of the current side.

 

Defensively he has been part of a unit which is one of the tightest in the Division, pace is not part of his game, nor is it integral to the way we currently play in the middle. He has been recruited to pass through- not run through.

 

When you analyse the calibre of all of Kenny’s signings they were recruited to deliver EL football and domestic cup runs – job done. If we want to challenge for the CL we will have to buy again, IF FSG will do so.

 

Not sure why you presume spending 80million was done so that we could deliver UEFA cup football! I am pretty sure the target was the champions league.

 

His defensive weaknesses have simply become more apparent from the moment Lucas was injured, because his work rate covered up for Adams deficiencies. The point seems to be whether or not he has been bought as cover, if he was then he is not covering he is starting, and he is simply not good enough for that.

 

And what 'passes' has he made? I can't think of too many, I can think of a number of times that he has been caught in possession and ran up blind alleys because he didn't see, or didn't want to make the pass.

 

His lack of pace is fine, if he has awareness, and a good reading of the game but he has neither and has been culpable on a couple of occassions (Bolton) of not tracking back. Cardiff very nearly scored in the last minute because both our midfielders stood, watched and let Cardiff look up and pick out a pass.

 

Cardiff should have been Spearing and Gerrard, that is balanced and enables Gerrard to do what he is good at.

 

If he has been bought as cover he is playing far too much, if he was bought for the first team then he isn't good enough. Charlie Adam thinks he is good enough, and that is part of the problem.

[NorwegianRed]

IIRC Adam is always high up on the list of who have ran the most kms during a game? I don't think there's much wrong with his workrate, but he makes me fucking scream at times, by playing wastefull passes or taking the extra touch or\and trying to dribble (like, should've passed Hendo through on goal against Arsenal.)

 

Meh.

 

Henderson is a work in progress, I think he can become a good player for us, but not on the right.

[lebron]

 

Cardiff should have been Spearing and Gerrard, that is balanced and enables Gerrard to do what he is good at.

 

If he has been bought as cover he is playing far too much, if he was bought for the first team then he isn't good enough. Charlie Adam thinks he is good enough, and that is part of the problem.

 

1. No, it's not. Steven Gerrard can't play in a two-man midfield anymore (if our objective is CL places), I think that much has been proven the last couple of seasons. As a trio where Lucas (or Spearing) cover for him and Henderson/Adam, perhaps, but it should really be AM or RM for Gerrard from now on.

 

2. I'd rather have a player that thinks he's good enough for our club (like Adam), who therefore shows for the ball and thinks he can (and tries to) make something positive with it, rather than someone who doesn't think he's good enough and is shit scared whenever the ball comes in his direction (Henderson).

[Whelan]

1. No, it's not. Steven Gerrard can't play in a two-man midfield anymore (if our objective is CL places), I think that much has been proven the last couple of seasons. As a trio where Lucas (or Spearing) cover for him and Henderson/Adam, perhaps, but it should really be AM or RM for Gerrard from now on.

 

2. I'd rather have a player that thinks he's good enough for our club (like Adam), who therefore shows for the ball and thinks he can (and tries to) make something positive with it, rather than someone who doesn't think he's good enough and is shit scared whenever the ball comes in his direction (Henderson).

 

I'm intrigued as to how that 'has been proven'?

 

And the argument that a player showing for a ball and tries to do something is good is a bit light! Although I am certainly willing to listen to what he was trying to do on Saturday when he wouldn't pass to Henderson, and what he was trying to do when hit the first man for his umpteenth dead ball.

 

I don't like him and I don't rate him, so I am far from objective where Adam is concerned, but he seems to attract far less criticism than Henderson and Downing, essentially because he cost less which is a bit silly considering the fact he has played far more than those players.

[The Dude Abides]

I never imagined Adam playing the kind of role he has done for us. I thought he'd be bit part tbh, and then when he had a part to play, he'd be used in a more attacking role, and not this pale imitation of what a central midfield player is supposed to be. His pass selection, positioning, it's all wrong.

 

Hell of a punt from Kenny to put that much faith in him. And to be fair, we've had our £7m worth absolutely no question, but he's still not good enough to be starting every week.

 

Hopefully next season after we've signed a top class player for that position we can use him more sparingly and maybe he can use that energy and attacking ability to better effect without having to do so much donkey work, work that he doesn't really know how to do, that's not through a lack of effort either as he works as hard as anyone, although I'm convinced now that his running stats just further prove how much he fails to understand that role. It's because he's out of position all the time. Not to say he doesn't work hard, because he plainly does. A lot comes down to temperament, he's not showing it.

Edited March 5, 2012 by The Dude Abides

[VladimirIlyich]

IIRC Adam is always high up on the list of who have ran the most kms during a game? I don't think there's much wrong with his workrate, but he makes me fucking scream at times, by playing wastefull passes or taking the extra touch or\and trying to dribble (like, should've passed Hendo through on goal against Arsenal.)

 

Meh.

 

Henderson is a work in progress, I think he can become a good player for us, but not on the right.

 

But this is useless if done at a snails pace and when trying to recover ground when the ball is behind him.

[billypilgrimnz]

For me, Adam's biggest weakness by far is his abysmal decision making when on the ball on a break. The number of times he just dribbles and dribbles and dribbles till either he is tackled, loses the ball and falls over hoping for a foul OR fires a shot straight at a defender makes me want to punch the TV.

[Kobayashi Maru]

But this is useless if done at a snails pace and when trying to recover ground when the ball is behind him.

 

Add to that his backing off, rather than closing the space, when faced with a direct attack. Would not surprise me if he runs as much backwards as he does forward, which I guess is a talent in itself. What has disappointed me all season is his wasteful use of the ball and possession. His corners have especially been consistently bad.

[WaltonRed]

Henderson found lots of space on saturday its just his decsion making which for me is still down to nerves, he looks nervous to me but he'll grow

 

Knee jerk reactions wont help us out nor will player bashing

 

adam was I concur shocking on saturday but I dont blame Kenny for not bringing him off because he was protecting him from an inevitable ironic cheer

[Bobby Hundreds]

Henderson found lots of space on saturday its just his decsion making which for me is still down to nerves, he looks nervous to me but he'll grow

 

Knee jerk reactions wont help us out nor will player bashing

 

adam was I concur shocking on saturday but I dont blame Kenny for not bringing him off because he was protecting him from an inevitable ironic cheer

 

I don't think a manager should worry too much about players feelings, there's a line of course where a player should be protected but ultimately if someone is shit they should be hooked and take the criticism like a man.

 

Adam always tries the glory option and it pays off now and then but I really do think we pay for it more than we get from it. As long as we pack our midfield with players who need to play out of their skin just to look like Liverpool standard we are going to struggle. We are an inconsistent side because we are jam packed with inconsistent players.

[WaltonRed]

But Bobby, he'd be nowhere near the team if Stevie and Lucas were both fit at the same time

[Gym Beglin]

1. No, it's not. Steven Gerrard can't play in a two-man midfield anymore (if our objective is CL places), I think that much has been proven the last couple of seasons. As a trio where Lucas (or Spearing) cover for him and Henderson/Adam, perhaps, but it should really be AM or RM for Gerrard from now on.

 

2. I'd rather have a player that thinks he's good enough for our club (like Adam), who therefore shows for the ball and thinks he can (and tries to) make something positive with it, rather than someone who doesn't think he's good enough and is shit scared whenever the ball comes in his direction (Henderson).

 

 

1. It's RM or nothing for Gerrard now. Unless he gets his finger out and learns how to play DM again, or finds a midfield partner willing to run tirelessly to cover him, that is. I'm pretty much over the Gerrard messiah thing now, lovely player but not essential, that's my view on him. He COULD prove me wrong, but it'd take effort and determination to do it, and I'm not sure he sees the point in it for the most part any more.

We certainly shouldn't be changing formations and midfield combinations to accomodate him as and when he can be fit, that's a nonsense strategy.

 

2. If you substitute the word 'Adam', for 'Shelvey', you get much the same thing but a stone lighter, quicker, and with bags of potential. I'd also love to see Henderson there in the long-term, but he's playing himself out of the club at the moment, and the best thing he can do is be quiet and hope we don't notice him for a while.

[Whelan]

Gerrard is 31, Giggs is 37 and won PFA player of the year at 35 as a CM, so I am not ready to write Gerrard of yet.

 

And nor should anyone else.

[Gym Beglin]

This list of central midfielders that Gerrard CAN'T play with is longer and much more distinguished than the list he CAN play with. I think that says an awful lot about Gerrard these days.

 

I love Rafa, love him, adore him, but the worst thing he ever did was take Gerrard out of DM. He could, and should, have become a master destroyer and deep lying mother fucker. I want that shaved-head Gerrard back, he was amazing, simply outstanding, the heartbeat of the team and a proper captain and driving force. As brilliantly successful as he's been in turning into this more artsy player, it does come with baggage, perhaps where one feels more important than other players, as opposed to being the glue that binds everyone. Crying shame.

[Gym Beglin]

Gerrard is 31, Giggs is 37 and won PFA player of the year at 35 as a CM, so I am not ready to write Gerrard of yet.

 

And nor should anyone else.

 

 

Yes, but...and this may be considered racist by everyone, Giggs is half Sierra Leonan (sp?). Athleticly he's got a better base to build from than Gerrard. Physically Giggs is amazing, still. He's a bit of a freak, his body is lean but powerful legs and he's quicker than most if not all of our players, perhaps Enrique aside. He'll be 39 this year, and to think people were making a fuss of Brad Friedel for being a goalkeeper at 40, fuck that, Giggs made 38 appearances last season and has made 25 so far this year. He could still be playing CL football at age 40, and not really looking out of place.

[Whelan]

Yes, but...and this may be considered racist by everyone, Giggs is half Sierra Leonan (sp?). Athleticly he's got a better base to build from than Gerrard. Physically Giggs is amazing, still. He's a bit of a freak, his body is lean but powerful legs and he's quicker than most if not all of our players, perhaps Enrique aside. He'll be 39 this year, and to think people were making a fuss of Brad Friedel for being a goalkeeper at 40, fuck that, Giggs made 38 appearances last season and has made 25 so far this year. He could still be playing CL football at age 40, and not really looking out of place.

 

That isn't racist! It is incredibly silly, but not racist.

[WaltonRed]

What the fuck has that got to do with you mong?

[Gym Beglin]

It's funny actually, we play with Adam as the midfield creator because of his ability to score and create, based on his time at Blackpool.

 

By the same token, Shelvey want to Blackpool as an attacking midfielder, at a much younger age than Adam, and scored 6 goals in 10 games, in the Championship.

 

You stick him in the reserves, again, he shines and scores goals and makes goals. He just seems to adjust to whatever you put in front of him. He deserves a chance to show what he can do, and he's not going to get a better chance than right now. We've already got EL football sorted, we aint finishing 4th, and we've got a pretty solid defence but cannot score goals...you can't offer a creative midfielder a better platform to begin his career than that.

[Gym Beglin]

What the fuck has that got to do with you mong?

 

Because black people are pre-disposed to having more fast-twitch muscle fibre.

That's why, you rude cunt, that you don't see too many ginger white sprinters making the finals in the 100m and 200m races. Likewise, you don't see many black men competing in the Worlds Strongest Man competition, or anything else dependant on slow-twitch fibres.

 

Stop being a stroppy super-sensitive bender, we're a bit different, get over it.

[WaltonRed]

Jesus wept.