Gerard Houllier interview

[Nunavut Patrick]

I think there's always the 'where did it go wrong moment' in everyhting in life be it work, play, etc:

 

For Evans it was white suits, Houillier I would say the obvious is the heart op but you could go for Hamman substitution, Benetiz is was when Pako left. Hodgson I don't think will be around long enough to have a wrong moment.

[Sangria]

I think there's always the 'where did it go wrong moment' in everyhting in life be it work, play, etc:

 

For Evans it was white suits, Houillier I would say the obvious is the heart op but you could go for Hamman substitution, Benetiz is was when Pako left. Hodgson I don't think will be around long enough to have a wrong moment.

 

Defining moments NP and I agree life is full of them.

 

Trying to bring a giant back to life is no easy task, the one that does is going to be one hell of a fella. I doubt it will be Roy but I would love to be proved wrong.

[RobbieOR]

I love Pako. He was on Sky last night the big leg.

[G Richards]

I liked the article. On a related note, I think we should be generous to former managers.

That strikes me as the Liverpool Way. For example, I know under Evans things were fairly unprofessional and too many of the players were having a laugh. But I choose to remember the great football we played, as well as some of the youngsters like Robbie and Macca who were truly world class. Under Houllier we all know that he made some bad signings later on and the football became really flat, but I choose to remember the added professionalism he brought, as well as the silverware. Under Rafa we know he fell out with a player or two here and there, and we know that he erred on the side of containing the opposition instead of unleashing the talent he had at his disposal to make them quake in their boots. But I choose to remember Istanbul, a near miss in Athens, and how he took on the owners and exposed some of what they were doing for the benefit of us all.

 

I think most of us know the downsides of our managers, but I think there is valour in remembering what was good and moving on. Something like, 'The King is dead, long live the King' gets close to what I'm trying to say.

[PaulMcC]

I like Houllier.

[VladimirIlyich]

We didn't need the press to report the indiscipline, several of the players wrote about it in their own books.

 

Ruddock "win or lose, first on the booze" and the pound coin story. Under Evans it was like a bunch of school kids on a day out, misbehaving whilst the teacher was asleep.

 

But the books came out at the end of their careers.

Usually the club was able to keep a lid on stuff until those players or managers moved on but it wasnt possible under Evans.

And FFS,those white suits were a fuckin nightmare.

 

I remember paying £40 to sit behind a stanchion at wembley and watch one of the all time piss poor finals and those manc bastards clinch the double at our expense.

[Paul]

I liked the article. On a related note, I think we should be generous to former managers.

That strikes me as the Liverpool Way. For example, I know under Evans things were fairly unprofessional and too many of the players were having a laugh. But I choose to remember the great football we played, as well as some of the youngsters like Robbie and Macca who were truly world class. Under Houllier we all know that he made some bad signings later on and the football became really flat, but I choose to remember the added professionalism he brought, as well as the silverware. Under Rafa we know he fell out with a player or two here and there, and we know that he erred on the side of containing the opposition instead of unleashing the talent he had at his disposal to make them quake in their boots. But I choose to remember Istanbul, a near miss in Athens, and how he took on the owners and exposed some of what they were doing for the benefit of us all.

 

I think most of us know the downsides of our managers, but I think there is valour in remembering what was good and moving on. Something like, 'The King is dead, long live the King' gets close to what I'm trying to say.

 

I agree with all that. However, I think it's far more important to support our current manager - especially when he's been here ten minutes. Calling for his head after five league matches is the polar opposite of The Liverpool Way.

[Dicko]

I agree with all that. However, I think it's far more important to support our current manager - especially when he's been here ten minutes. Calling for his head after five league matches is the polar opposite of The Liverpool Way.

 

Lying about former managers and using the clubs greatest living legend to give it legitimacy is also the polar opposite of the Liverpool way.

 

Describing protesters as a group of people and saying their actions don't help is also the polar opposite of the Liverpool way.

 

Insulting a manager that has won more in the game as both a player and manager and doing so in a style that makes his own prehistoric football look exactly what it is for being sacked by Galatasaray while he's burying his Father is also the polar opposite of the Liverpool way.

 

Insulting journalists & by default two countries were we have a massive following is also the polar opposite of the Liverpool way.

[Paul]

Lying about former managers and using the clubs greatest living legend to give it legitimacy is also the polar opposite of the Liverpool way.

 

Describing protesters as a group of people and saying their actions don't help is also the polar opposite of the Liverpool way.

 

Insulting a manager that has won more in the game as both a player and manager and doing so in a style that makes his own prehistoric football look exactly what it is for being sacked by Galatasaray while he's burying his Father is also the polar opposite of the Liverpool way.

 

Insulting journalists & by default two countries were we have a massive following is also the polar opposite of the Liverpool way.

 

Clearly you're not a fan - which is absolutely fine (he certainly wasn't my first choice, even though I like and respect him). However, just look again at what you've written and see how insubstantial it is. Obviously you feel highly emotive about the whole thing and so this is unlikely to be a measured debate. However, none of that (most of which I don't recognise as being either relevant to my point or a fair interpretation of the facts), changes the fact that calling for a manager's head after five league games is embarrassing. It's not a tit for tat, anyway - "He did this, so I'll do that"; it's about giving the man a fair chance to prove himself, regardless of what the early signs are - relegation form excepted, of course (our recent form is the second best in the division, by the way).

[gkmacca]

I love the eagerness that the chronic cunt-sayers show to hide behind 'The Liverpool Way'. No matter how appallingly they behave themselves, they always cite 'The Liverpool Way' to legitimise their latest bit of bitterness. A bit like thugs wearing their police uniforms.

[Dicko]

Clearly you're not a fan - which is absolutely fine (he certainly wasn't my first choice, even though I like and respect him). However, just look again at what you've written and see how insubstantial it is. Obviously you feel highly emotive about the whole thing and so this is unlikely to be a measured debate. However, none of that (most of which I don't recognise as being either relevant to my point or a fair interpretation of the facts), changes the fact that calling for a manager's head after five league games is embarrassing. It's not a tit for tat, anyway - "He did this, so I'll do that"; it's about giving the man a fair chance to prove himself, regardless of what the early signs are - relegation form excepted, of course (our recent form is the second best in the division, by the way).

 

It's not insubstantial. He did ridicule a Danish journalist and asked him if he was Norwegian then say there's two countries he never wants to work in again.

 

He did describe the protesters as a group of people and said that they didn't help.

 

He did say Rijkaard wasn't up to the Liverpool job because he was sacked by Galatasaray while Rijkaard was burying his Dad.

 

And he did lie about Benitez not allowing Kenny inside Melwood, made even worse by the fact that Kenny rarely spends time at Melwood under him. (Paul Dalglish is on record saying that Kenny doesn't go to Melwood in a Radio City interview on October ninth.)

 

There are certain criteria a Liverpool manager should meet before getting the job. You wouldn't appoint an expert home economics teacher to give Geography lessons then just leave him to see if he improves.

 

Hodgson has not and probably never will meet the criteria to be Liverpool manager.

 

I understand your point about giving him time but for me a line was crossed with his comments about the protesters and then trampled on with his lies about Benitez.

 

And also it comes down to a far simpler and more basic point.

 

Is he actually an improvement on what we had?

[Dicko]

I love the eagerness that the chronic cunt-sayers show to hide behind 'The Liverpool Way'. No matter how appallingly they behave themselves, they always cite 'The Liverpool Way' to legitimise their latest bit of bitterness. A bit like thugs wearing their police uniforms.

 

There is no Liverpool way.

But when the manager can't even abandon it because he never actually understood it then I think it's ok to point that out.

 

Also Macca you might enjoy managers lying about previous managers and using the greatest living legend to give it legitimacy. I on the other hand think it's more in the Liverpool way to call the manager on it.

 

It was a cunts trick full stop.

[VladimirIlyich]

I liked Houllier better than Rafa myself but admit Rafa is the better coach.

 

Thought Rafa was wrong to take the Inter job,hiding to nothing and all that,but Ged was right to take the Villa job,not a lot to lose really.

[Uncle Travelling Matt]

I liked the article. On a related note, I think we should be generous to former managers.

That strikes me as the Liverpool Way. For example, I know under Evans things were fairly unprofessional and too many of the players were having a laugh. But I choose to remember the great football we played, as well as some of the youngsters like Robbie and Macca who were truly world class. Under Houllier we all know that he made some bad signings later on and the football became really flat, but I choose to remember the added professionalism he brought, as well as the silverware. Under Rafa we know he fell out with a player or two here and there, and we know that he erred on the side of containing the opposition instead of unleashing the talent he had at his disposal to make them quake in their boots. But I choose to remember Istanbul, a near miss in Athens, and how he took on the owners and exposed some of what they were doing for the benefit of us all.

 

I think most of us know the downsides of our managers, but I think there is valour in remembering what was good and moving on. Something like, 'The King is dead, long live the King' gets close to what I'm trying to say.

 

Agree with all that.....in alot of ways we've been blessed, each of the "shit" managers we've had has still managed to win a trophy, I wonder how that will sit on Roy's cv...only Liverpool manager in over 50 years not to win a trophy!

 

Its not the results, tactics or performances that make him not up to the job, its his "small club mentality", he hasn't got a clue as to what is needed to be a winner.

[silverlining]

I think that interview puts Houllier in Poll position to take over from Roy Hodgson

 

The composition of your head is 20% mad thoughts and 80% ethanol.

[Wor Horse]

There are vastly superior candidates to Kenny Dalglish heart rulling heart I am afraid.

 

Fortunately our owners will go with a new manager

 

Deschamps

Tuchel

Flores

Di Matteo

Coyle

Villas Boas

 

Just to name a few and if you wanted expericence then Lippi and capello would have it over Kenny

 

Given up on McLiesh then?

[Randy Marsh]

Ah sorry Pablo. It's just that over the past few months half truths and no truths have passed from myth to truth to defensible certainties.

 

I'm no Benitez blind defender, but what I am is on the side of common sense.

I'm tired of hearing things like 'he cosied up to Hicks to get his new contract', 'he only signed for the money', 'he forced Xabi Alonso out' etc etc when absolutely none of it stands any objective scrutiny.

 

Alonso was gash for at least a year before the summer of 2008 and was put up for sale and guess what? No takers. Had Real Madrid been in for him that Summer he would've been off, just like he was the Summer after.

 

Now, on the back of being told he could go, he then turns in his best and most consistent season in a Red shirt. Benitez then, quite rightly says, I dont want you to go, he about faced and forced Alonso to put in a transfer request so that nobody, not even the biggest whopper, could be under any illusions as to who wanted to leave. Real Madrid then come in, Benitez plays hardball and we get 30m cash, up front, for him. Now, had that been most other managers, that would have been called playing 'a blinder', would it not? Kicking a player up the arse to get the best out of them, and then forcing a transfer request and getting twice what he could have gone for 12 months before, that sounds like good work to me. Benitez wanted to replace Alonso in 2008 and quite rightly in my view. Whether replacing him with Barry was a good idea now, with the power of hindsight, seems a wrong decision.

 

Arbeloa actually requested to leave the club because he wanted to return to Spain. This was well known for a while before he left, nothing that the Manager could do about that.

 

Now, to my eyes Hyypia leaving was to do with the length of contract offered and nothing to do with animosity, there is no proof apart from agenda driven digs that this was the case. Once again, hindsight shows that giving him a 2 year contract might have been a decent move, but you can see the reasons why he was offered One Year and he moved to get two. Sure, if you wanted to you could point to his omission from the CL squad in favour of Degen as being a mud stirrer, but it doesn't stand up to any kind of OBJECTIVE scrutiny.

 

I agree that Keane wasn't handled well and was sold prematurely, and on the back that perhaps it was a mistake signing him in the first place, the whole episode was shoddy, nothing better than shoddy. BUT, the reason I jumped on it was because you said "unpicked the side that had produced the best run of attacking football we'd played in decades at the end of '08-'09"...now rightly or wrongly, Keane left in January 2009, before the best run of attacking Football that you made mention of.....hence my response, that the 'unpicking' actually constituted the 'sale' of 2 players who actually requested to leave the club! THAT is why I said 'any stick' and jumped on it.

 

Common sense and objectivity have gone right down the shitter on here Paul....and not just recently. Every criticism of the new manager is met with a comparitive criticism of the old one by those who then have the cheek to say "he's gone, get over it" whilst missing the massive fucking irony that they are in fact the ones who do the most jabbering about the previous manager.

 

Few of the criticisms of the ex-manager that are hurled about to point score actually stand up to much in the way of objective scrutiny mate. Like I said, I'm not a real defender of Benitez. There are many on field sticks someone who was so minded could use to beat him with...those 2 'performances' against Reading last season were as abject as I can ever remember seeing from any Liverpool side. He had lost his way, and yes, perhaps the time was right for him to move on. What I will say is that given a straight choice between Rafa and Roy Hodgson, then give me Rafa, warts and all, every fucking time 1000000%.

 

Some of us said in the Summer that it wasn't the right time for a parting of the ways with the manager, given the circumstances that prevailed at the time. Some of us didn't trust those in charge to get the appointment right and some of us virtually word for word predicted what would and has happened, back in May when Hodgsons name was first mentioned.

 

Some of us said that 'anybody other than Benitez could do a better job at motivating the players and getting results' and further than that, some actually went out on a limb and not only said anybody but Benitez, but actually named Hodgson as that man and put their weight behind him. Well, those people have had their pants well and truly pulled down...but it's those same people who told us that anybody could do a better job, have sat and witnessed somebody do a much worse job and still can't get past the snidey, shitty sticks, just because it meets with an agenda.

 

I'm not on the side of Rafa Benitez, I quite like the guy and hope he does well wherever he goes, but I'm on the side of LFC first and foremost and common sense and objectivity wherever possible, and to see some of the petty, malicious, agenda driven half truths and no truths passed off as undeniable fact on here is actually past laughable now. As soon as you lift your head above the parapet to actually say, 'hang on a minute, that isn't actually right', some fucking halfwitted cunt says 'He's gone get over it' and thinks it's funny, and then some other comedian meets your support of a rational argument with another half truth or defence of the new manager with a shot at the old one.

 

I wish Roy Evans and Gerard Houllier no ill will at all, like Rafa Benitez, they are part of Liverpool FC's past who will be remembered for the good things they did. Just like Rafa.

 

The Civil war on here isn't about Rafa Benitez or Roy Hodgson for the most part Paul, it's gone way beyond that, they are just standard bearers for the two factions...those that blarted and knee jerked and spouted a right load of shit, even when we played great football at the end of 08/09 and those that laughed at them. Some Chickens have come home to roost recently in that 'civil war' and some people are trying to defend their piss poor judgement by any means and any stick possible.

 

I wasn't meaning to jump on you as an individual, I'm just fucking sick of the fucking bollocks now.....'Hodgson is fucking clueless clown and should be sacked'...'well, we're two points better off than we were under Rafa' etc...'youre a cunt', 'no you are' 'Roy is, 'no rafa was'.

 

The bottom line is it probably was the right time for Benitez to go, but only when replaced by someone with ambition and the ability to do a better job, and more importantly, we as a club are drowning under Roy Hodgson and should be left to sink alone sooner rather than later. They are both fundamental truths. No way should Hodgson have got the job, whether or not Benitez should have been sacked and there are many sticks to beat Rafa with without making things up and twisting 'facts'...there are two more fundamental truths.

 

That's me done. Tired of it now.

 

[PaulMcC]

Why is accepted that it went wrong for Rafa when Pako left?

 

We had our best season, league wise, when Pako wasn't here.

[05 Milan]

What a load of rubbish from Ged there. "Yeah I ballsed up with Diouf and Diao, I was just so tired from the heart attack"..

[WaltonRed]

I'll always respect him for what he did but the time was right, probably a season too much when he eventually did go.

 

Some of the bollocks since has wrecked my head such as still showing up at training when Rafa 1st started and the istanbul was my team nonsense.