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Those friendly Catholic types.

Guest James D

By Guest James D,
in GF - General Forum

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Guest James D

Guest James D

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BBC News - Pope adviser calls the UK a 'Third World country'

 

Pope adviser calls the UK a 'Third World country'

 

The Vatican said the cardinal was pulling out of the visit solely on health grounds

 

One of the Pope's senior advisers has pulled out of the papal visit to Britain, after reportedly saying the UK is a "Third World country" marked by "a new and aggressive atheism".

 

Cardinal Walter Kasper, 77, made the remarks in a German magazine interview.

 

The Vatican said the cardinal had not intended "any kind of slight", and was referring to the UK's multicultural society.

 

It added that he had simply pulled out of the Pope's visit due to illness.

Continue reading the main story

“

Start Quote

 

They are saying it is ill health, but I wonder if that is the fact. I wonder if he has been dropped because he is an embarrassment”

Clifford Langley

The Tablet

 

The German-born cardinal was quoted as saying to the country's Focus magazine that "when you land at Heathrow you think at times you have landed in a Third World country".

 

He also was reported to have criticised British Airways, saying that when you wear a cross on the airline "you are discriminated against".

 

Vatican sources said Cardinal Kasper - who stepped down in July as the head of the department that deals with other Christian denominations - was suffering from gout and had been advised by his doctors not to travel to the UK.

 

The Pope is spending four days in Scotland and England, starting on Thursday.

'Talking nonsense'

 

The BBC's correspondent in Rome, David Willey, said the cardinal's reported comments were "a slightly clumsy thing to have done on the eve of the visit".

 

However, he added that he did not think it would have much effect on the Pope's trip to the UK.

 

Clifford Langley, from Catholic newspaper The Tablet, said the cardinal was "obviously talking nonsense".

 

"I don't think he believes Britain is in the grip of secular atheism, and he shouldn't have said so," said Mr Langley.

 

"They are saying it is ill health [that has forced the cardinal to drop out of the visit], but I wonder if that is the fact. I wonder if he has been dropped because he is an embarrassment."

 

British Airways said the cardinal had been "seriously misinformed" in his claims about the airline.

 

"It is completely untrue that we discriminate against Christians or members of any faith," it said in a statement.

 

To be fair, new atheism is so much worse than old atheism.

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Section_31 Grand Master

Section_31

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From the Vatican, which resides in that bastion of excellent indoor plumbing and transport infrastructure and non-corrupt law enforcement and Government that is Italy, a country which contains cities like Naples, where women no longer wear high heels in case they have to flee from Camora gun fire.

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BatChainPuller Veteran

BatChainPuller

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I thought they liked the Third World, particularly where people are uneducated, superstitious and gullible - perfect territory for Catholicism (and with limited child protection legislation).

 

There was a good piece in the Guardian by Ben Goldacre arguing that the Catholic church is a major public health problem:

 

Pope's anti-condom message is sabotage in fight against Aids

 

Stance makes Catholic church a major global public health problem

 

Pope's anti-condom message is sabotage in fight against Aids | Ben Goldacre | Comment is free | The Guardian

 

This week the pope is in London. You will have your own views on the discrimination against women, the homophobia, and the international criminal conspiracy to cover up for mass child rape. My special interest is his role in the 2 million people who die of Aids each year.

 

In May 2005, shortly after taking office, the pope made his first pronouncement on Aids, and came out against condoms. He was addressing bishops from South Africa, where somebody dies of Aids every two minutes; Botswana, where 23.9% of adults between 15 and 49 are HIV positive; Swaziland, where 26.1% of adults have HIV; Namibia (a trifling 15%); and Lesotho, 23%.

 

This is continuing. In March 2009, on his flight to Cameroon (where 540,000 people have HIV), Pope Benedict XVI explained that Aids is a tragedy "that cannot be overcome through the distribution of condoms, which even aggravates the problems". In May 2009, the Congolese bishops conference made a happy announcement: "In all truth, the pope's message which we received with joy has confirmed us in our fight against HIV/Aids. We say no to condoms!"

 

His stance has been supported, in the past year alone, by Cardinal George Pell of Sydney and Cardinal Cormac Murphy O'Connor, the Archbishop of Westminster. "It is quite ridiculous to go on about Aids in Africa and condoms, and the Catholic Church," says O'Connor.

 

"I talk to priests who say, 'My diocese is flooded with condoms and there is more Aids because of them.'"

 

Some have been more imaginative in their quest to spread the message against condoms. In 2007, Archbishop Francisco Chimoio of Mozambique announced that European condom manufacturers are deliberately infecting condoms with HIV to spread Aids in Africa. Out of every 8 people in Mozambique, one has HIV.

 

It was Cardinal Alfonso López Trujillo of Colombia who most famously claimed that the HIV virus can pass through tiny holes in the rubber of condoms. Again, he was not alone. "The condom is a cork," said Bishop Demetrio Fernandez of Spain, "and not always effective."

 

In 2005 Bishop Elio Sgreccia, president of the Pontifical Academy for Life, explained that scientific research has never proven that condoms "immunise against infection".

 

He's right, they don't. They stop the virus which kills you from being transmitted during sex.

 

How effective are they? It's wise not to overstate your case. The current systematic review of the literature on this question published by Cochrane found 14 observational studies (because it's unethical to do a randomised trial where you actively stop people using condoms, since you know that they work but just want to find out how well).

 

These studies generally looked at HIV transmission in stable couples where one partner had HIV.

 

Many of them looked at transfusion patients and haemophiliacs. Overall, rates of HIV infection were 80% lower in the partners who reported always using a condom, compared to those who said they never did. 80% is pretty good.

 

There is no single perfect solution to the problem of Aids: if things were that easy, it wouldn't be killing 2 million people every year.

 

ABC is a widely used prevention acronym in Africa: abstain, be [faithful], [use a] condom. Picking out one effective measure and actively campaigning against it is plainly destructive, just as telling people to abstain doesn't make everyone abstain, and telling people to use condoms won't make everyone use them. But Ratzinger has proclaimed: "The most effective presence on the front in the battle against HIV/Aids is the Catholic church and her institutions."

 

This is ludicrous. You, the Catholic church, is the only major influential international political organisation that actively tells people not to do something that works – on a huge scale. Your own figures show that your numbers are growing in Africa, even faster than the population does.

 

I'm happy for you to suggest abstention. But sabotaging an effective intervention which prevents a disease that kills 2 million people a year makes you a serious global public health problem.

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Pidge Grand Master

Pidge

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Anyone else thinking this is a rather pathetic attempt to get people to actually give a shit about the desiccated old nazi?

 

I am generally pro-religion, despite being an agnostic, but fail to see any redeeming feature in this self-appointed spiritual elite.

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Guest TK-421

Guest TK-421

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When a country like ours invites millions of 3rd world residents to live here, it's natural for them to transform their regional habitats into replicas of their former homes. The cardinal is correct in some ways that the UK resembles a 3rd world shithole. East London being one of them.

 

Do you honestly believe the shit you write?

 

Excellent WUM skills.

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