14m price tag on Lucas

[Ted]

Yeah right.

[ngogswilly]

Does anyone think he would be a good player for a lower maybe midtable team? I personally like him but hes just a little too average for the position he plays in.Hes not a bad player but we need someone who can do a little bit more.I would love him to suddely come good and start driving our play on a bit more and chipping in with a few assists and goals but just cant see it happening.

[BexBissel]

Over the course of the season (allbeit a shite season) he's been our best midfielder.

These from The Player of The Season thread, up to and including the Birmingham City game.

 

1. Johnson.........................4 first...........2 second.....................26 points

2. Reina.............................3 first...........1 second.....................18 points

3. Benayoun.......................2 first...........1 second.......4 third.....17 points

4. Torres............................3 first...........1 third........................16 points

5. Lucas.............................1 first...........2 second.......4 third.....15 points

[Guest simon]

Lucas is a good player he will come good and the lads gives his effort so im all for him. He gets all this abuse but still comes out and try's his best. The lad has the heart thats all i care about. If he isnt good enough yet thats not his fault. Id relly like us to play him abit more attacking role he has a way of always getting into the box he has a great cross even though its very rare. He's a good player but he isnt Masch so stop playing him in the same type of role. I have always said we dont need 2 holding mids quite frankly the way were conceding if he wantys to be defensive play 5 defenders.

 

like so Johnson Carra Agger Skrtel Aurelio.

 

Would be more safer than Masch and Lucas together.

[piscinin]

Most of the games this season our midfield has operated more like a typical 442 (when we have the ball anyway) than a 4231 with two holding midfielders. Manure and Chelsea being the obvious exceptions.

 

It's clear from watching the pairing that Lucas and Mascherano have distinct roles. Mascherano is the primary link between defence and midfield and Lucas is more focused on the link between midfield and attack. Mascherano is responsible for game management, switching flanks, the 50-60yd balls to initiate an attack, etc. In support of that Lucas is there to give Mascherano an easy pass to change the angle/point/position to attack from.

 

As well as supporting Mascherano Lucas is responsible for the 20 yard passes through the opposition midfield line into the attacking unit and then getting beyond their midfield and transitioning into our attacking unit.

 

Unfortunately for him, the support role to Mascherano = lots of sideways passes. But hey that's the role and theres something to be said for his discipline given that he knows he's going to get stick for it. I can think of a fair few players that would let the crowd get to them and would start playing hollywoods left, right and center. But the pecking order is clear Mascherano is the main man.

 

His throughballs like Xabi's are into feet and rarely beyond the defence so little comes directly from them, so there's little to get excited about. And until he starts penetrating the defensive line which isn't going to happen often because that is what the players in the line of 3 are all about the tide is not going to turn.

 

This season he has also started doing what Barry did so much better than Xabi, he's got the beyond the ball, into the final 3rd and become part of the attacking unit, there have been a bunch of times where he's been the furthest player forward and that's not on counter attacks. Unfortunately for him, the attacking unit has rarely taken advantage of this and with his confidence in front of goal what it is you wonder if it would have mattered. Until the attacking unit learns to use the overload properly though he won't be getting any kudos.

 

So given the restricted role he has now and the those he's had in the past you get the sense Rafa has him on some uber-structured development plan which it makes it difficult to tell what kind of player he will really become. What does he have in his locker that he's not using yet? For example, he almost never goes wide, he's always central. Does he have a good cross on him? How would we know?

 

The best we can do at this point is ask is he still improving? Or has he plateaued?

[silverlining]

"Mascherano is responsible for game management"

 

At this point, I'd have probably tried to beat you to death if you were within reach.

[BexBissel]

Most of the games this season our midfield has operated more like a typical 442 (when we have the ball anyway) than a 4231 with two holding midfielders. Manure and Chelsea being the obvious exceptions.

 

It's clear from watching the pairing that Lucas and Mascherano have distinct roles. Mascherano is the primary link between defence and midfield and Lucas is more focused on the link between midfield and attack. Mascherano is responsible for game management, switching flanks, the 50-60yd balls to initiate an attack, etc. In support of that Lucas is there to give Mascherano an easy pass to change the angle/point/position to attack from.

 

As well as supporting Mascherano Lucas is responsible for the 20 yard passes through the opposition midfield line into the attacking unit and then getting beyond their midfield and transitioning into our attacking unit.

 

Unfortunately for him, the support role to Mascherano = lots of sideways passes. But hey that's the role and theres something to be said for his discipline given that he knows he's going to get stick for it. I can think of a fair few players that would let the crowd get to them and would start playing hollywoods left, right and center. But the pecking order is clear Mascherano is the main man.

 

His throughballs like Xabi's are into feet and rarely beyond the defence so little comes directly from them, so there's little to get excited about. And until he starts penetrating the defensive line which isn't going to happen often because that is what the players in the line of 3 are all about the tide is not going to turn.

 

This season he has also started doing what Barry did so much better than Xabi, he's got the beyond the ball, into the final 3rd and become part of the attacking unit, there have been a bunch of times where he's been the furthest player forward and that's not on counter attacks. Unfortunately for him, the attacking unit has rarely taken advantage of this and with his confidence in front of goal what it is you wonder if it would have mattered. Until the attacking unit learns to use the overload properly though he won't be getting any kudos.

 

So given the restricted role he has now and the those he's had in the past you get the sense Rafa has him on some uber-structured development plan which it makes it difficult to tell what kind of player he will really become. What does he have in his locker that he's not using yet? For example, he almost never goes wide, he's always central. Does he have a good cross on him? How would we know?

 

The best we can do at this point is ask is he still improving? Or has he plateaued?

Excellent post.

[hamstrung]

You might as well come out Speedy. No one else on the planet refers to "game management"

[Brownie]

Speedy, why are you hiding? I know we never got on and I was probably partly responsible for you wanting to leave, but it's pointless posting with a different name when everyone knows who you are.

[PaulMcC]

Stop following him round. It wasn't ok for Rash ;)

[Iantn]

He is awful.

 

He is awful or he is an awful example of a footballer?

 

Worlds apart them mate.

[llego]

Most of the games this season our midfield has operated more like a typical 442 (when we have the ball anyway) than a 4231 with two holding midfielders. Manure and Chelsea being the obvious exceptions.

 

It's clear from watching the pairing that Lucas and Mascherano have distinct roles. Mascherano is the primary link between defence and midfield and Lucas is more focused on the link between midfield and attack. Mascherano is responsible for game management, switching flanks, the 50-60yd balls to initiate an attack, etc. In support of that Lucas is there to give Mascherano an easy pass to change the angle/point/position to attack from.

 

As well as supporting Mascherano Lucas is responsible for the 20 yard passes through the opposition midfield line into the attacking unit and then getting beyond their midfield and transitioning into our attacking unit.

 

Unfortunately for him, the support role to Mascherano = lots of sideways passes. But hey that's the role and theres something to be said for his discipline given that he knows he's going to get stick for it. I can think of a fair few players that would let the crowd get to them and would start playing hollywoods left, right and center. But the pecking order is clear Mascherano is the main man.

 

His throughballs like Xabi's are into feet and rarely beyond the defence so little comes directly from them, so there's little to get excited about. And until he starts penetrating the defensive line which isn't going to happen often because that is what the players in the line of 3 are all about the tide is not going to turn.

 

This season he has also started doing what Barry did so much better than Xabi, he's got the beyond the ball, into the final 3rd and become part of the attacking unit, there have been a bunch of times where he's been the furthest player forward and that's not on counter attacks. Unfortunately for him, the attacking unit has rarely taken advantage of this and with his confidence in front of goal what it is you wonder if it would have mattered. Until the attacking unit learns to use the overload properly though he won't be getting any kudos.

 

So given the restricted role he has now and the those he's had in the past you get the sense Rafa has him on some uber-structured development plan which it makes it difficult to tell what kind of player he will really become. What does he have in his locker that he's not using yet? For example, he almost never goes wide, he's always central. Does he have a good cross on him? How would we know?

 

The best we can do at this point is ask is he still improving? Or has he plateaued?

 

Very good analysis, the only thing I can think to add would be that I have observed several examples of Lucas doing the 50 yard switching flanks ball over the past few games. Not during Everton, but there was never enough space for either midfielder to attempt that. But over the games before that he has delivered a few accurate ones and one or two bad ones.

[piscinin]

Very good analysis, the only thing I can think to add would be that I have observed several examples of Lucas doing the 50 yard switching flanks ball over the past few games. Not during Everton, but there was never enough space for either midfielder to attempt that. But over the games before that he has delivered a few accurate ones and one or two bad ones.

 

Yep you are definitely right, it's clearly not as black and white as I make it sound. After all you can only play the game that the opposition lets you.

 

It'll be interesting to see how the pecking order and responsibilities change once Aquilani is integrated into the team. If what we've heard is true, there could be some bruised egos!

[zigackly]

To summarise piscinin, we are using two players to make half a player.

[Guest TK-421]

Piscinin the wind.

[piscinin]

To summarise piscinin, we are using two players to make half a player.

 

This post isn't really intended to shed any light on the subject is it?

[zigackly]

This post isn't really intended to shed any light on the subject is it?

 

No, just taking the pisc ;)

 

For what it's worth I still don't think either is enough of a player to do those jobs. Mascherano is far from being a pivote and Lucas is no ball carrier. If you put a more creative player in partnership with one of them then you've got something, but two players with mainly destructive qualities would starve any attack somewhat, not just the one we have at the moment through injury.

 

The interesting question, as you say, is that knowing Mascherano wants out, which one will Benitez drop for Aquilani? Personally I am not convinced Lucas is aware enough to do Mascherano's job defensively.

Edited December 2, 2009 by zigackly

[Section_31]

He plays like a woman. If I was playing against him I'd just put on my best Julius Caesar voice and say:

 

 

"SIT-DOWN!"

[Paul]

Over the course of the season (allbeit a shite season) he's been our best midfielder.

 

I think that's what you call damning him with faint praise, mate.

[Paul]

Speedy, why are you hiding? I know we never got on and I was probably partly responsible for you wanting to leave, but it's pointless posting with a different name when everyone knows who you are.

 

In fairness (if it is him), he's been far less sarcastic, arrogant and dismissive than before and consequently infinitely more readable; he probably wants to consign his previous incarnation to an embarrassing memory, so I don't blame him for keeping schtum.

[piscinin]

No, just taking the pisc ;)

 

For what it's worth I still don't think either is enough of a player to do those jobs. Mascherano is far from being a pivote and Lucas is no ball carrier. If you put a more creative player in partnership with one of them then you've got something, but two players with mainly destructive qualities would starve any attack somewhat, not just the one we have at the moment through injury.

 

The interesting question, as you say, is that knowing Mascherano wants out, which one will Benitez drop for Aquilani? Personally I am not convinced Lucas is aware enough to do Mascherano's job defensively.

 

Yeah with the ball the difference in quality between Xabi and what we have now is obvious.

 

TBH Off the ball worries me as much, when we setup in the 4231 we are very secure in the middle, but otherwise the screening and tracking has actually been pretty poor this year. I worry that we've blown so much smoke up Mascherano's ass this year that there will be tension about him being "demoted" to the sit and hold role. It's going to be another struggle to get a balance and understanding IMO (and is probably part of the reluctance to introduce Aquilani until exactly the right time).

 

On Lucas, he's no Mascherano nor is he likely to become one, but as the player who breaks the lines? Who knows? If he improves as much offensively as he has defensively he may carve a niche out for himself.

[The Acolyte]

I really doubt it but I often imagine that he someday might turn into a world class player and we'll all say "Didn't see that coming" but then I remember how very average he is and how stupid his haircut is and I think, no one with hair like that will ever be world class at anything.

 

 

 

Maybe you should think that one over.

[dave u]

Nothing wrong with those two haircuts. Argies always have better hair than Brazilians.

[Ted]

[dave u]

Czech's also have great hair. Poborsky is the exception that proves the rule. Collocini is the one that proves it for Argies.