Tories - convince me you're not evil

[Section_31]

You're doing it again.

 

What do you actually believe Rico, genuine question, because I don't think I've ever seen your own personal views presented on here and defended in any meaningful way. 

 

You draw up carricatures - i.e all capitalism is the same, that 'this' is capitalism, rather than it's an evolution of capitalism only seen in the UK and the States, that there are other kinds and have been for many years before. 

 

Also, the idea that if you don't agree with this you're some kind of Citizen Smith figure.

 

What we tend to get from you and SD these days, as though you just winding people up, is something along the lines of posting a link from the Telegraph or something along the lines of 'child poverty at lowest levels for 2,000 years', and if people say it's bollocks you tell them to run back to their North Korean tractor factory.

 

But what do you personally believe, what is your ideal state/society? 

[Hooch]

Can't believe no one caught my Its Always Sunny reference.

[Pureblood]

See if you can use your devastating intellect to work that out from my words "It doesn't sound like something I'd support".

 

Although given you claimed I was defending the government, contrary to reality, perhaps that's over-optimistic.

 

No, of course I don't support it. It goes against literally everything I believe in, every opinion I've ever expressed on the topic, and everything anyone could reasonably believe about me.

I still think you support it.

[Rico1304]

Said it loads of times;

 

- every cunt should pay their fair share of tax, anyone avoiding it should go to prison

- total equality whether you're black white gay straight or just fabulous like me

- take education out of party politics, experts work out the best way to deliver it and have long term plans

- strong benefits system for those who can't work

- fuck all for the lazy cunts who won't work (who don't exist of course so shouldn't be an issue)

- huge pay rise for MPs, but reduce numbers to around 500 (or whatever numbers work best)

- stay in Europe

- clear immigration strategy which allows people we need into the country - not arsed where they come from

- shake up social housing and move out those who can afford it

- NHS reform, make people pay for missed appointments, tax on fat people through food/drinks

- more personal responsibility - stop blaming other people.

 

You'll note I don't advocate burning or hanging anyone, strange isn't it

[Mook]

You vote for the tories though, which is infinitely worse than saying that you think people of a certain political persuasion should be shot/hung/burned on a Football forum.

[s(k)aturation]

I hate "right wing" people who make a point of saying they care about others, and don't.

 

I hate "left wing" people who make a point of saying they care about others, and don't.

 

And I dont' have much time for people whose motivation for helping others is more self-aggrandisement than genuine care.

 

I walk among all 3 types, and have been guilty of being a bit of all 3 of these categories myself at times.  

 

A convenient sense of propriety, along with self-possesion and self-loathing, are unfortunately all too common a part of being human.

[Rico1304]

You vote for the tories though, which is infinitely worse than saying that you think people of a certain political persuasion should be shot/hung/burned on a Football forum.

Do I have to cancel that discount?

 

I'm more to the right than most on here, I'm certainly not a rabid right winger (at least I don't think I am). Why should I hide it? It's all about honesty and consistency IMO. I've been called all sorts for expressing my views on here yet told that other people's views are sacrosanct - which is it?

[Mook]

I respect you for your honesty, Rico & have no issue with you other than your politics.

 

I'm certainly not about to start throwing insults about when there's a tenner to be gained on a hoover or washing machine down the line.

[thegreatelephant]

i prefer laughable internet hyperbole from shithouses like myself, to voting for a party whose policies are causing rising death and suicide levels through ideological austerity policies. which perpetuate said tradegy and misery. that way not as complicit in that happening. so if that's out lefting anyone, sorry for that.

[Rico1304]

i prefer laughable internet hyperbole from shithouses like myself, to voting for a party whose policies are causing rising death and suicide levels through ideological austerity policies. which perpetuate said tradegy and misery. that way not as complicit in that happening. so if that's out lefting anyone, sorry for that.

of course I don't support policies that directly cause people harm, I'm not Hades for fucks sake.

[Section_31]

I hate "right wing" people who make a point of saying they care about others, and don't.

 

I hate "left wing" people who make a point of saying they care about others, and don't.

 

And I dont' have much time for people whose motivation for helping others is more self-aggrandisement than genuine care.

 

I walk among all 3 types, and have been guilty of being a bit of all 3 of these categories myself at times.  

 

A convenient sense of propriety, along with self-possesion and self-loathing, are unfortunately all too common a part of being human.

 

Hitchens made a good point in his interview with Owen Jones, where he said we live in an age where we think there's an easy answer for everything, and I think that's spot on.

 

No politics, ideology has got all the answers, it's a case of seeing what works best. What we can do though is say where we think things clearly don't work, and the 2008 crash is conclusive proof that this financial model doesn't work, it's beyond dispute. To see us pursuing that model again with a more rabid determination than ever before is mindblowing, and we're doing it purely and simply because the people at the very top refuse to give up their extreme wealth. 

 

A country built along the lines of a traditional Tory party would have an aristocracy and a thriving middle class, probably still at the expense of the poor, but the likes of the police and medical profession would be pretty untouchable. Cameron has fucked with all these groups relentlessly, they all fucking despise him and the middle class is being hollowed out as each year passes the next. They're not Tories, I've said it a million times, they're the vanguard of the ultra wealthy global elite. They're termites and they don't care who or what they destroy to keep them moneyed up to the hilt. 

[Strontium]

I still think you support it.

Of course you do, that would fit your modus operandi of always thinking the worst about Liberals, irrespective of the facts.

[Strontium]

What we can do though is say where we think things clearly don't work, and the 2008 crash is conclusive proof that this financial model doesn't work, it's beyond dispute.

Well, I am disputing it, so it isn't.

 

You might as well say that 9/11 is proof that air travel doesn't work.

 

In both cases all you needed was better oversight.

[thegreatelephant]

of course I don't support policies that directly cause people harm, I'm not Hades for fucks sake.

respectfully, we'll have to agree to disagree. i'm sure you are as uninterested in my outlook in life, as i am in yours.

[Rico1304]

respectfully, we'll have to agree to disagree. i'm sure you are as uninterested in my outlook in life, as i am in yours.

Well done on reading my mind though, that's impressive.

[Pureblood]

Of course you do, that would fit your modus operandi of always thinking the worst about Liberals, irrespective of the facts.

Yeah, just me. And the rest of the electorate.

[thegreatelephant]

Well done on reading my mind though, that's impressive.

thanks.

[Section_31]

Well, I am disputing it, so it isn't.

 

You might as well say that 9/11 is proof that air travel doesn't work.

 

In both cases all you needed was better oversight.

 

The lack of oversight is part of that system, so no, unless you're talking about state intervention and oversight. Or are you saying the markets don't know best? Which isn't very liberal. 

[Strontium]

Yeah, just me. And the rest of the electorate.

The electorate that voted the Tories in, yes. Not sure what your excuse is.

[Section_31]

 

The former Federal Reserve chairman, Alan Greenspan, has conceded that theglobal financial crisis has exposed a "mistake" in the free market ideology which guided his 18-year stewardship of US monetary policy.

A long-time cheerleader for deregulation, Greenspan admitted to a congressional committee yesterday that he had been "partially wrong" in his hands-off approach towards the banking industry and that the credit crunch had left him in a state of shocked disbelief. "I have found a flaw," said Greenspan, referring to his economic philosophy. "I don't know how significant or permanent it is. But I have been very distressed by that fact."

 

 

 

Read more

It was the first time the man hailed for masterminding the world's longest postwar boom has accepted any culpability for the crisis that has engulfed the global banking system.

During a feisty exchange on Capitol Hill, he told the House oversight committee that he regretted his opposition to regulatory curbs on certain types of financial derivatives which have left banks on Wall Street and in the Square Mile facing billions of dollars worth of liabilities.

 

"I made a mistake in presuming that the self-interests of organisations, specifically banks and others, were such that they were best capable of protecting their own shareholders and their equity in the firms," said Greenspan.

His remarks came as Lord Myners, the newly appointed City minister, told the Guardian that a new agency was planned to oversee the UK government's £37bn share of high street banks.

Advertisement

 

As the crisis continued to depress global stockmarkets, the US treasury secretary, Henry Paulson, also offered a partial confession, admitting he ought to have anticipated a meltdown in the US mortgage industry widely blamed for triggering the crisis. "I could have seen the sub-prime crisis coming earlier," he told the New York Times. He added: "I'm not saying I would have done anything differently."

 

In prepared remarks before the House of Representatives, Greenspan, 82, who retired in 2006, called the financial crisis a "once-in-a-century credit tsunami" and said it had "turned out to be much broader than anything I could have imagined".

He suggested his trust in the responsibility of banks had been misplaced: "Those of us who have looked to the self-interest of lending institutions to protect shareholders' equity (myself especially) are in a state of shocked disbelief."

The congressional committee's Democratic chairman, Henry Waxman, pressed him: "You found that your view of the world, your ideology, was not right, it was not working?" Greenspan agreed: "That's precisely the reason I was shocked because I'd been going for 40 years or so with considerable evidence that it was working exceptionally well."

In an interview with the Guardian, Myners said the new oversight agency would monitor the government stakes in Royal Bank of Scotland, HBOS, and Lloyds TSB.

 

Myners, who was chairman of Guardian Media Group, which publishes the Guardian, until he took the ministerial post three weeks ago, said the agency would have its own chief executive and board of directors. "The government will hold [the shares] through a separate agency," he said.

But he admitted that the Treasury, the Bank of England and the Financial Services Authority were doing a "lot of preparatory work" in anticipation of further problems in the financial system.

Congressman Henry Waxman "My question is simple. Were you wrong?"

Greenspan "Partially ... I made a mistake in presuming that the self-interest of organisations, specifically banks, is such that they were best capable of protecting shareholders and equity in the firms ... I discovered a flaw in the model that I perceived is the critical functioning structure that defines how the world works. I had been going for 40 years with considerable evidence that it was working exceptionally well. The overall view I take of regulation is, I took an oath of office when I became Federal Reserve chairman. I'm here to uphold the laws of the land passed by Congress, not my own predilections."

 

[Strontium]

The lack of oversight is part of that system, so no, unless you're talking about state intervention and oversight. Or are you saying the markets don't know best? Which isn't very liberal.

Why isn't it very liberal?

 

Capitalism is the best tool we have, bar none, for generating wealth. It is a powerful and dangerous force unless properly handled.

 

Man did not discover fire then decide it was too dangerous to use. He just decided to handle it appropriately.

[Strontium]

Lousy double post

[VladimirIlyich]

Said it loads of times;

 

- every cunt should pay their fair share of tax, anyone avoiding it should go to prison

- total equality whether you're black white gay straight or just fabulous like me

- take education out of party politics, experts work out the best way to deliver it and have long term plans

- strong benefits system for those who can't work

- fuck all for the lazy cunts who won't work (who don't exist of course so shouldn't be an issue)

- huge pay rise for MPs, but reduce numbers to around 500 (or whatever numbers work best)

- stay in Europe

- clear immigration strategy which allows people we need into the country - not arsed where they come from

- shake up social housing and move out those who can afford it

- NHS reform, make people pay for missed appointments, tax on fat people through food/drinks

- more personal responsibility - stop blaming other people.

 

You'll note I don't advocate burning or hanging anyone, strange isn't it

The problem with these opinions rico is that they mostly tie in with the others.

The tax on 'fat' people is a minefield. What constitutes fat? Why are they fat? That one example is far too simplistic and only speaks about a small part of the NHS problems. We'd need to shut down almost every fast food outlet in the country and that would bankrupt most British towns overnight.

[Rico1304]

The problem with these opinions rico is that they mostly tie in with the others.

The tax on 'fat' people is a minefield. What constitutes fat? Why are they fat? That one example is far too simplistic and only speaks about a small part of the NHS problems. We'd need to shut down almost every fast food outlet in the country and that would bankrupt most British towns overnight.

Let medical experts decide, fuck the politicians views. No issue with doing the same on booze if that's proved to help.

[Lee909]

Fuck letting anyone decide on whats fat. The medical lot use that shitty hieght weight chart. They have Antony Joshua as overweight.