Criticism of Kenny

[Whelan]

Bad press is a myth. There is little evidence to suggest it has any effect on the public perception of a business. Tesco need PR because every living person in the country is a potential customer and success is built on increasing customers, football clubs are not as beholden to PR for the reasons stated above, good PR isn't going to turn a Villa fan into a Liverpool fan.

 

International fans don't read our media, and considering the reputation...

 

 

Fuck it, can't be arsed. They are scum and we should not be defending ourselves, these cunts hack dead girls phones, they have no right to sit in judgement.

[Kennys_spell]

Here's the thing though: as the pressure has mounted, results have gotten worse and Kenny's become more tetchy, making uncharacteristically silly statements in the process.

 

Bad press hasn't helped matters because, try as you might, you can't fully insulate an entire team when almost every media outlet is in on the act.

 

Maybe the best thing would be just give the facts. No more insight and no more argument. Just down the line, in / out.

 

I've got this wrong - I know I've got this wrong but help me out here. Are you seriously offering up that fact that there is confrontation between a SKY interviewer and the Manager as a reason for bad results?

 

Really??????

[TheDrowningMan]

 

I've got this wrong - I know I've got this wrong but help me out here. Are you seriously offering up that fact that there is confrontation between a SKY interviewer and the Manager as a reason for bad results?

 

Really??????

 

No, not a single incident, nor would i put it in the same league as the main reasons for our on-field problems. I just don't think it helps when there's a constant stream, I think it can be a bit of a distraction on some level.

[Kennys_spell]

No, not a single incident, nor would i put it in the same league as the main reasons forproblem-field problems. I just don't think it helps when there's a constant stream, I think it can be a bir of a distraction on some level.

 

You've said no, but the rest of your answer says "yes" - are we playing badly because we don't give SKY lovey dovey interviews or not?

[TheDrowningMan]

 

You've said no, but the rest of your answer says "yes" - are we playing badly because we don't give SKY lovey dovey interviews or not?

 

No, I've said that I don't think it's in the same league as our real problems. I just think that getting riled by a moronic press can be an additional distraction. Nowhere have I stated that it's a key reason for our decline; it's on the periphery.

[Kennys_spell]

No, I've said that I don't think it's in the same league as our real problems. I just think that getting riled by a moronic press can be an additional distraction. Nowhere have I stated that it's a key reason for our decline; it's on the periphery.

 

Again - is that a Yes or a No?

 

I just need you to help me out here. I don't think it does by the way - not in the smallest way possible.

[TheDrowningMan]

 

Again - is that a Yes or a No?

 

I just need you to help me out here. I don't think it does by the way - not in the smallest way possible.

 

It's obviously a no. I don't think it's the cause for our bad form, which is down to poor tactical decisions and a pretty awful slate of signings. I just don't think it helps when you have the press sniping even more than usual so perhaps it's best not to give them anything to bite.

[rednich85]

Only two British managers have won the Premier League title: Slur and Kenny.

 

Kenny doesn't get the respect he deserves for winning the title in the modern game.

 

Are you sugesting Blackburns title win almost 20 years ago was won in the modern game?

 

I'll add the necessary 'I love Kenny' to avoid any criticism from the sensitive variety.

[lebron]

I've got this wrong - I know I've got this wrong but help me out here. Are you seriously offering up that fact that there is confrontation between a SKY interviewer and the Manager as a reason for bad results?

 

Really??????

 

Were you asking the same critical questions to the ART when they suggested that Rafa's press conference (the infamous "facts" one) ahead of the Stoke game was a big factor in us losing the league to Utd? I agree with you by the way, and I didn't think it was a factor then either, did you?

[Guest Pistonbroke]

Class opening post and i couldn't agree more, some of our so called fans need to take a good look at themselves.

[bonesman]

I dont know why on today of all days certain posters still feel the need to denigrate our manager for whatever reason, trying to second guess his motives or his actions both on and off the pitch its a sad sad thing to read, despite whatever is happening both on and off the pitch Kennys setting the example of accountabilty, he'll be the first to admit his failings whatever they are and do his upmost to rectify them, from performances on the pitch to the Suarez saga to the commolli saga he put himself in the firing line and made himself accountable..

Some of the cnuts on here talk as though theyre in kennys head, privy to his unspoken thoughts and ideas as opposed to second guessing his motives, the problem with second guessing is the fact that its almost always based on ones own personal opinions and experiences and im sorry but none of you are qualified to second guess Kenny especially in the tone some of you are using..

I trust Kenny to do what he thinks is right for Liverpool F C and the supporters, if for one second he feels he's taken us as far as he can i believe he'll be the first to hold his hands up and be accountable, theres no doubt in my mind about that..

A little respect costs nothing but is worth a great deal..

Ok ive said my piece if youve read this thanks for reading it and if you understand what im trying to say then even better..

 

 

 

Below ive posted an article, Kennys words not second guessed opinion hope you read and enjoy it..

Carroll is part of a return to the Shankly days - Dalglish

 

Kenny Dalglish says the management team at Liverpool are trying to re-establish the foundations once laid down by the legendary Bill Shankly, and he claimed the determination and spirit of Andy Carroll and Jordan Henderson are crucial to the project.

 

Dalglish, in his first full season back as manager, led the Reds to their second cup final of the season with a 2-1 FA Cup semi-final win over Everton. Victory in the final would see Dalglish lift the Carling Cup and FA Cup trophies just 18 months into his reign.

 

At Wembley it £35 million man Carroll who scored the winning goal, answering plenty of critics who have labelled him a flop during his time at Liverpool. Dalglish sees it differently, insisting the mental fortitude of such players as Carroll and Henderson will help Liverpool rebuild the ethos of hard work and honesty at the club.

 

"Those two lads, neither have given anything less than what they've got to give," Dalglish told ESPN in an exclusive interview.

 

"As long as they give everything they have to give, we stand by them, 100 per cent. We all make mistakes, but at 20 or 21 years of age, it's hard to play in the top league in the world.

 

"We're here to put a great foundation down, like the people such as myself, Alan Hansen, Phil Thompson had in the 80s thanks to Shanks. All that the great players had done for us, we're now trying to put down that foundation and start moving forward with Liverpool Football Club.

 

"There needs to be a lot of decisions made, some will be right and some wrong, but we need to win more games than we lose and to do that we need everybody committed. The owners have been a breath of fresh air, but this is new for a lot of the players [at the moment].

 

"It's becoming more comfortable for them (Carroll and Henderson), and for them to have adjusted like they have has been rewarding for us. The two lads can be pleased with the efforts they've put in this year. They can play better, they would admit that, but they're good players."

 

Dalglish also points out that there are plenty of other high profile managers, such as former England boss Fabio Capello, who rate the Liverpool duo.

 

"Andy has played and scored for England, Jordan has played for his country, so there's other people who think highly of them as well - it's not just us. We'll give them the support they need and we'll get the reward back."

 

Reflecting on a frustrating season for Liverpool that has seen them excel in the cups but struggle in the league, Dalglish admits he does not know if the eight-match ban received by Luis Suarez for racial abuse affected his squad. However, the Liverpool boss did confess that he would handle the situation very differently if it happened again.

 

"You'll never know how much the situation affected things. It happened and we needed to deal with it, and we did deal with it," Dalglish said. "We've just got to brush ourselves down, stop feeling sorry for ourselves and get on with it. Luis has done that since and so has the football club.

 

"I think it would be dealt with completely differently if it happened again. It would be done completely differently. I won't say publicly what I'd do differently, but I know what I'd do differently. I'll address that, if I've done something wrong I'm not frightened to say I've done something wrong and I can do something better.

 

"Everybody can look at themselves and think, "I could do things much better'. And that's what I'll try to do."

 

Asked if he would swap success in the FA Cup and Carling Cup for a Champions League place, Dalglish replied: "No. I'd take the cup results and try to improve the league results. I'd never take away winning cup competitions."

Edited April 15, 2012 by bonesman

[bonesman]

Sorry I forgot to post the link for the article..

 

Andy Carroll and Jordan Henderson are part of a return to the Shankly days at Liverpool - Kenny Dalg | Football News | ESPN.co.uk

[xerxes]

Bad press is a myth. There is little evidence to suggest it has any effect on the public perception of a business.

Ratners were closed almost single-handedly by it, the day that the NYT carried criticism of our handling of the Suarez affair FSG swung into action.

 

I agree with you that most fans are unaffected by bad press, indeed in may cases it concentrates, not deters, support.

 

But Sky money and commercial deals fuel the bloated beast of Premier League football. Crucially, how LFC is perceived is an integral part of the value of the club, as such bad publicity cannot be ignored.

 

However responsibility for the "brand image" is only partially down to the manager. we are very fortunate to have in FSG one of the world's leading media experts to assist us.

[xerxes]

"he claimed the determination and spirit of Andy Carroll and Jordan Henderson are crucial to the project."

 

Well at least we know where he stands.

[silverlining]

Carroll has taken an unholy amount of stick from the media and our own fans, but there are signs that he is much better than many give him credit for. I was pleased he stared the final and it was the correct decision.

 

Henderson has played more games, and contributed far less than Carroll. But he seems to have been largely immune to fan criticism, and only lately have the media seemed to pick up on the fact that he does fuck all, and is a shithouse. He's been the worst player on the pitch in two Wembley finals, and been hooked in both.

 

I know why he escapes flak. I said it when we first signed him, he's the ideal modern Superfan footballer, running about, retaining and 'turning over' possession, without actually doing anything, anything at all, to effect the course of a football match.

 

He's a fucking terrible player, can't tackle, can't shoot, creates fuck all - he just runs about laying off 5 yard passes and then running into a position where he can't receive the return pass. The most dismal manifestation of the emperor's new clothes as I can ever remember, and one of the shittest midfielders in the Premiership.

[MLB]

The main difference between Carroll and Henderson is that Carroll has guts.

[Jairzinho]

The perceived attitudes of the two players is a possible explanation.

[Whelan]

Ratners were closed almost single-handedly by it, the day that the NYT carried criticism of our handling of the Suarez affair FSG swung into action.

 

I agree with you that most fans are unaffected by bad press, indeed in may cases it concentrates, not deters, support.

 

But Sky money and commercial deals fuel the bloated beast of Premier League football. Crucially, how LFC is perceived is an integral part of the value of the club, as such bad publicity cannot be ignored.

 

However responsibility for the "brand image" is only partially down to the manager. we are very fortunate to have in FSG one of the world's leading media experts to assist us.

 

Ratners are a consumer product Xerxes, if you don't like Ratners or, more to the point, you feel that you are not being treated right then you go somwhere else.

 

The key, as you noted was NYT and FSG, Liverpool's reputation was not the issue it was FSG and their reputation.

 

And Henderson does have heart, he never hides from the play but he doesn't get stuck in, but that isn't always a guide to having bollocks, I thought Neil Ruddock proved that was a lie!

 

And before anyone has a go, this isn't a defence of his performances, just a little support for his attitude.

[Kennys_spell]

Were you asking the same critical questions to the ART when they suggested that Rafa's press conference (the infamous "facts" one) ahead of the Stoke game was a big factor in us losing the league to Utd? I agree with you by the way, and I didn't think it was a factor then either, did you?

 

Yes I was, very loud and as often as I could. I was very much behind Benitez suggesting that the only class of manager we would be able to attract at that stage would be a Curbishley, Allardyce or Pardew - I was wrong of course, we couldn't even attract that sort - we ended up with Hodgson.

 

But lets not cover old ground.

[Kennys_spell]

Ratners were closed almost single-handedly by it, the day that the NYT carried criticism of our handling of the Suarez affair FSG swung into action.

 

I agree with you that most fans are unaffected by bad press, indeed in may cases it concentrates, not deters, support.

 

But Sky money and commercial deals fuel the bloated beast of Premier League football. Crucially, how LFC is perceived is an integral part of the value of the club, as such bad publicity cannot be ignored.

 

However responsibility for the "brand image" is only partially down to the manager. we are very fortunate to have in FSG one of the world's leading media experts to assist us.

 

Can't argue with any of that although none of it relates to the subject being discussed - we're not talking about fans, shareholders or PLC's being shut down because of publicity - we were discussing performances.

 

Quite a different thing.

[lebron]

Yes I was, very loud and as often as I could. I was very much behind Benitez suggesting that the only class of manager we would be able to attract at that stage would be a Curbishley, Allardyce or Pardew - I was wrong of course, we couldn't even attract that sort - we ended up with Hodgson.

 

But lets not cover old ground.

 

Fair dos to you then, there weren't enough of us I guess:-)

[xerxes]

I know why he escapes flak. I said it when we first signed him, he's the ideal modern Superfan footballer, running about, retaining and 'turning over' possession, without actually doing anything, anything at all, to effect the course of a football match.

 

He's a fucking terrible player, can't tackle, can't shoot, creates fuck all - he just runs about laying off 5 yard passes and then running into a position where he can't receive the return pass. The most dismal manifestation of the emperor's new clothes as I can ever remember, and one of the shittest midfielders in the Premiership.

 

Check out ESPN's interview with Kenny. Kenny sees him as essential to his re-creation of the British spirited Liverpool sides of the past.

 

There have always been "give and go" footballers integral to winning sides from Nobby Stiles for England, through Ronnie Whelan for us and Batty for Leeds and Blackburn.

 

The reason why Carroll has attracted more scrutiny than Henderson is that Kenny made Carroll one of the most expensive players in the history of world football, Henderson is an also ran.

[gkmacca]

Full interview with daughter Kelly on ESPN now (10.30pm).

[mypost]

The main difference between Carroll and Henderson is that Carroll has guts.

 

The main difference is for every goal Carroll scores, he misses 5 sitters. Henderson doesn't even get the sitters in the first place.

[kalasoma]

Don't know if anyone has read this complaint sent to the Guardian, but I'm posting the link from the Newsframes site. I just found it today. It's regarding a story by Marina Hyde. The original quote from Kenny (upon which the story is loosely based) is presented here along with excerpts from the article published in the Guardian. My aim is not to single out any one media outlet, but to just highlight that criticism of Kenny in the media (which is then picked up by the public) may come from particular prevailing attitudes towards the manager himself. It's my hypothesis anyway, not proof.

 

Forwarded complaint to Guardian « N E W S • F R A M E S • • • • •

 

Forwarded complaint to Guardian

with one comment

 

The following complaint (made to the Guardian) was forwarded to me yesterday – after I’d discussed the matter on Twitter with Guardian journalist Marina Hyde. I’m publishing it here with permission of the author:

 

Dear Guardian Editor &

Guardian Readers’ Editor,

 

The following Guardian headline is from a piece by Marina Hyde, 11/4/12:

 

‘Kenny Dalglish takes conspiracy claims beyond the realms of David Icke’

 

Here’s what Dalglish actually said:

 

‘We don’t get everything right, so it is understandable they don’t either, but a wee bit of respect towards us would help the situation immensely. Otherwise, people might think there is a conspiracy. We can’t believe that, we can’t let it affect us and take it into the games that are coming up because that would damage us. We have to keep going and ensure it doesn’t affect the players. We can’t let it get to that, where we think it is a conspiracy. We have to believe it will turn for us and we will get luck on our side. We are certainly due some luck after what has gone against us.’

 

Clearly, the Liverpool manager is not doing what the Guardian headline says. (The Independent newspaper ran a headline which directly contradicts the Guardian’s.)

 

Marina Hyde’s Guardian piece states: ‘It may be instructive for Kenny Dalglish to consider that even David Icke at his maddest has never floated the idea of a referees’ conspiracy against Liverpool [...] Even by the standard of depressingly witless statements to emanate from the Liverpool manager this season, the deployment of the c word – “conspiracy” – can hold its own.’

 

Perhaps Hyde is unaware that the “conspiracy” term had already been “floated” and “deployed” in this context (widely, in media reports, forums, etc) before Dalglish responded with the above. As early as October last year, a Guardian piece claimed that Liverpool fans were “expounding delusional conspiracy theories”. It’s perfectly clear that Dalglish was not “floating” the idea that there is a conspiracy (as Hyde wrongly asserts), but responding to a well-established (and widely ridiculed) notion by saying “we can’t believe that”.

 

To claim that Dalglish “takes conspiracy claims beyond the realms of David Icke” is a remarkable misrepresentation – a distortion which provides a false premise for Hyde’s vitriolic – and reputation-damaging – attacks on Dalglish. I think both Marina Hyde and the Guardian owe Mr Dalglish a correction and an apology.

 

Sincerely,

 

[sent to Guardian on 15/4/12]

 

If you’d like to contact the Guardian’s Editor or Readers’ Editor on this issue, their email addresses are, respectively, alan.rusbridger(at)guardian.co.uk and reader(at)guardian.co.uk.