Stewart Downing

[The Dude Abides]

I was literally just about to post about Benayoun! This thread has a similar ring to it, hopefully with the same result.

 

That kind of gets to the point of it too though. We paid what? £6m for Yossi? We'd have to pay three times that for Downing. Not worth it. £20m should buy you world class. Downing's nowhere near world class.

[zigackly]

Problem is clubs like the Mancs, City, Real Madrid, Inter Milan, Chelsea and even Barcelona have totally fucked up the transfer market in recent years. Everyone is holding out for a lottery win on their best players. Then you've got the homegrown rule on top of the English tax, and a premium for the TV money washing around our league. Player valuations now are completely wild. How long ago was it we were breaking our transfer record at around the ten million mark? Not very.

[WaltonRed]

Section, we finished 7th last year and 6th this, I've got news for you mate, we arent top four till we finish top 4.

[Brownie]

 

That kind of gets to the point of it too though. We paid what? £6m for Yossi? We'd have to pay three times that for Downing. Not worth it. £20m should buy you world class. Downing's nowhere near world class.

 

You have to add on the English premium which is a big thing, as you know. Personally i reckon we'll spend about £17M on him. People would be prepared to spend that on Young yet Downing has out-performed him this season.

 

One is seen as a 'sexy' signing, the other isn't, for whatever reason.

[kev g]

I was literally just about to post about Benayoun! This thread has a similar ring to it, hopefully with the same result.

 

EDIT - excellent post from Kev G.

 

Cheers brownie. Great shout by u and paulie about yossi. I was very critical of that signing at the time but I think he turned out to be a very good player for us. Shame we haven't still got him! More positive style of play under kenny would suit him and could see him linking up well with somebody like suarez, both clever players.

Edited May 26, 2011 by kev g

[zigackly]

Careful, there are also lots of player people have been critical of who have proved to be shit.

 

Personally with Downing it's more about the style of player he is than his quality. We do need someone who can get chalk on his boots and cross the ball well in our squad.

 

I'd still prefer someone who was also a bit quicker if we were only buying one winger/attacking midfielder. I would still also prefer two.

[Phoenix]

These transfer thread always go the same way, they're kind of quaint in a sense. They usually start with a player being mooted, reaction is often negative if they're British and the money involved is stupid (a la Crouch and more recently Carroll), then as pages drift by and it looks like we're going to get the player whether we like it or not, we almost start talking ourselves around to the idea.

 

A 'no way' becomes 'he's not that bad' until eventually he's a signing of potential huge significance and maybe, just maybe, all this time we just weren't aware of just how boss he really was. At this point we usually slag of Rashid or Red Nick for not wanting said player and decide that this is becuase they're somehow shallow and that their understanding of the game only extends to Pannini stickers.

 

What tends to happen then is that said player - who we always knew was overpriced and limited - turns out to be overpriced and limited. It's usually exposed in a big match and we're left feeling blue. We've come full circle, it's time for a cull, no more half measures, we all hate football, and all the while we lament the fact the mancs have just spent £6m on a 17-year-old Guatemalan shitbag who's tearing up more wings than that monster from the William Shatner episode of The Twilight Zone.

 

We quite simply need to start aiming higher. We need either top class players for top dollar, or exciting prospects. Lads who can 'do a job' can not have a place in our football vocabulary anymore or, quite simply, we don't deserve to even be called top four.

 

 

I have to agree with this....better to spend the mopney on someone who has the potential to be the best than average Joe who does a good job.

 

No to Downing.

[WaltonRed]

Downing with a Baines or a Enrique behind him could be boss

[Phoenix]

Cheers brownie. Great shout by u and paulie about yossi. I was very critical of that signing at the time but I think he turned out to be a very good player for us. Shame we haven't still got him! More positive style of play under kenny would suit him and could see him linking up well with somebody like suarez, both clever players.

 

To be fair most people who had seen Benayoun play realised he was a clever player.

 

A suggest Pennant a more accurate comparator for Downing but for £20 million.

[Trumo]

If Stewart Downing was an option to boost our squad rather than go straight into the first XI, and the fee was reasonable (for me that's £7m or less) then I'd have no problem with us moving for him. As a circa-£20m buy at the age of 27 I'd really rather not, especially as it's unlikely he'll get any better as a player. I've read all the arguments and counter arguments in this and other threads, and both sides make some valid points. It's entirely possible that we could sign him, and that he plays to his current level it might improve our team. However, for the expected outlay the improvement to the team will only be marginal, and it could be detrimental to the effectiveness or ability to improve in other areas. It's true you can say that about any potential signing, but my main reason is given below.

 

As I've said on countless threads about British players at other clubs, the big reason why these players do well at so-called lesser clubs is that they play week in week out and get into a rhythm. British players do not cope very well with squad rotation as continuity plays too big a part in their effectiveness and contribution. As a whole, they haven't learned how to make as big an impact by say, only coming off the bench for a few games, or only playing in alternate games.

 

There's an element of self-doubt and lack of confidence that creeps in very easily when they see that they are not on the teamsheet week in week out. Of course there will be exceptions, and it's not just something that only effect British players, but at the same time it is at the very core of why so many get overlooked in favour of the foreign import. It's not just about the exotic name.

 

That is my big doubt about spending big on somebody like Stewart Downing. It's too easy to just say "he's shit" without trying to qualify it.

[The Dude Abides]

Careful, there are also lots of player people have been critical of who have proved to be shit.

 

Personally with Downing it's more about the style of player he is than his quality. We do need someone who can get chalk on his boots and cross the ball well in our squad.

 

Why do we can I ask? I don't understand the fascination some people have for this type of player tbh. It's such a limited thing.

 

Downing isn't tricky, and isn't very fast(not slow either), if the opposition wants to, they'll quite easily be able to stop him doing that, look at Bale, who's far more talented than Downing. That's why, imo, you need more well rounded attackers these days, players that have the whole range of skills. They can drift in, go on the outside, pick a pass, dribble.

 

There are very few top teams in the World with the type of player you are after. The closest would be Valencia, but he's lightning quick and has much better ball control.

[moof]

I would like to know the percentage of people on this thread who've actually watched Downing. And i'm not talking about motd highlights.

[The Midnight Rambler]

Hope John Henry can work some of his magic on Randy Lerner as he seems like one stubborn mutha! He's definitely going to be around the 20m mark as he's Villa's player of the season and still has two years left on his contract. I get the feeling Flanno would give him a glowing review after watching the match last week..

[kev g]

To be fair most people who had seen Benayoun play realised he was a clever player.

 

A suggest Pennant a more accurate comparator for Downing but for £20 million.

 

That's a fair point but at the time I thought benayoun was an average player and wasn't good enough for us. In hindsight my opinion was ill informed as I hadn't seen enough of yossi play and I think that the same is true with a lot of peoples opinions of downing now. Obviously that's just my opinion and I'm not daft enough to think I couldn't be wrong but from what I have seen he is a quality player and would improve our team if we signed him.

[zigackly]

Why do we can I ask? I don't understand the fascination some people have for this type of player tbh. It's such a limited thing.

 

Give you a hint. I can think of about thirty five million reasons.

[Phoenix]

That's a fair point but at the time I thought benayoun was an average player and wasn't good enough for us. In hindsight my opinion was ill informed as I hadn't seen enough of yossi play and I think that the same is true with a lot of peoples opinions of downing now. Obviously that's just my opinion and I'm not daft enough to think I couldn't be wrong but from what I have seen he is a quality player and would improve our team if we signed him.

 

In my opinion he would improve us but the sums mentioned could be better used for a players who have the potential to play at even higher level.

[Unrighteous]

I would like to know the percentage of people on this thread who've watched Downing. And i'm not talking about motd highlights.

 

I reckon erm... all of them... He has been playing a few years in this league with a club we all know and seem to watch.

[RobbieOR]

To be fair, Kev G, most of the people Ive seen recommending Mata, are the ones who usually post on the La Liga threads, so they have seen him play.

 

Comparing him to that turd Quaresma is harsh, because he played in a shit league which nobody watched or even has access to watch.

[Stu Monty]

Cos he's shit.

 

No he's not. You're shit, and you've got a shit face too.

 

Fuck off, shitface.

[Randy Marsh]

I would not at all be comfortable with us spending some of the stupid money quoted in this thread for Downing.

 

Yes, everyone can see we overpaid for Andy Carroll. But Carroll has potentially another ten years at the top end of the game and when he gets himself fit and we integrate him in to the team he has all the raw materials and potential to be a monster of a striker.

 

Downing for anything over 10-12m would be ludicrous. I'm not saying he is a bad player, but as S31 has pointed out he fits in to the 'he'll do a better job than what we have got' category, and that doesn't necessarily mean he is good enough to take us were we want to be.

 

I feel we could do so much better for that kind of money. £20m can get you a Suarez, or a (dare I say it) Torres. Downing for 4 or 5m I can understand, he'd be a different option to bolster the squad. But we shouldn't get shafted on a player just because he is English, a player who's never achieved anything of any note and has no real potential to improve beyond what he is now.

 

How many clubs now play with real wingers any way? A lot of the width is provided by full backs, and with Johnson, Kelly and Flanagan on the right we are well stocked in that area. The LB needs addressing, although if Aurellio wasn't made of glass we'd be ok there too I reckon. Up to now, Suarez has shown how effective he can be drifting in from the flanks. If we managed to recruit a boss attacking left back then I don't think we'd need a Downing type player at all. We deffo need one or two top class attacking midfielders, but not necessarily 'wide men'.

[kev g]

In my opinion he would improve us but the sums mentioned could be better used for a players who have the potential to play at even higher level.

 

Maybe but, for me, its hard for us as fans to know who is available, how much they cost and what the club can afford. Its easy for all of us to sit here and say we should get him or him and he would cost this much or that much when the fact is that doesn't necessarily reflect the reality of what is possible. I just think that dalglish and commoli will get the best players they can in terms of who we can afford and who we get and I'm sure whoever we do get they will be a vast improvement on what we have now.

[zigackly]

Maybe but, for me, its hard for us as fans to know who is available, how much they cost and what the club can afford. Its easy for all of us to sit here and say we should get him or him and he would cost this much or that much when the fact is that doesn't necessarily reflect the reality of what is possible. I just think that dalglish and commoli will get the best players they can in terms of who we can afford and who we get and I'm sure whoever we do get they will be a vast improvement on what we have now.

 

We can still have opinions and call each other cunts though right?

[moof]

I reckon erm... all of them... He has been playing a few years in this league with a club we all know and seem to watch.

 

Where are the ill informed opinions coming from then? No pace? Ball skills? No technique? Hell just watching him last week will tell you he has all those things.

[kev g]

To be fair, Kev G, most of the people Ive seen recommending Mata, are the ones who usually post on the La Liga threads, so they have seen him play.

 

Comparing him to that turd Quaresma is harsh, because he played in a shit league which nobody watched or even has access to watch.

 

You may be right robbie, I just got the impression that mata was a name a lot of people had latched onto and were saying that he is who we need on the basis of received wisdom. I could well be wrong, that was just the impression I got.

[zigackly]

EDIT: Sorry, wrong thread.