Hodgeson hate

[piscinin]

That's my take on it as well.

What I find worrying at this point is that a new manager usually brings in optimism, change and better results in the beginning of his reign. Then the problems arise when things don't go so well.

 

Not so under Hodgson, results are poor from the start. Let's hope we're just about to turn the corner.

 

Poor fucker, he's come into an impossible job. His margin of error is zilch. He cannot be making mistakes like last night. Self-inflicted wounds are the worst.

 

Hopefully this has registered, because IMO he is in a race against time to get his game plan across before these fragile prima donna's collapse into a poor semblance of a mid-table team like they did last year.

 

All the excuses in the world mean nothing because this is playing out as we expected with the added bonus of keeping Torres and Gerrard and adding Cole.

 

I can't remember who said it, but for the next 10 games adopting Benitez's unspoken mantra that a draw is as good as a win might be the best course.

[redphil]

I was looking for the thread Mascherano Hate, could not find it. Here we have a player on 75k a week who does not want to play for us and the main topic of conversation is the new managers shortcomings. Some knobheads on here.

[mypost]

Hodgson's record away from home, in the Premier League, is appalling.

 

4 wins in 38 games isn't it?

 

Ours last year, was close enough to it. We scored 5 goals in 5 months at one point, playing quite frankly, appalling football. Still, the man in charge had his devotees who couldn't tolerate anyone else in the job, and still can't.

[ronnie38]

Ours last year, was close enough to it. We scored 5 goals in 5 months at one point, playing quite frankly, appalling football. Still, the man in charge had his devotees who couldn't tolerate anyone else in the job, and still can't.

Are you the same cock, ''whoops sorry'', Mypost who got kicked off TIA for being clueless and constantly slagging Rafa.

[bastard oot]

i havent read all the posts so this might already be covered. i dont think its that any of our fans hate hodgson but i think some people are just over re acting after a shite away performance and talking like the season is doomed in august, which irrespective of how bad we were last night is fairly ridiculous imo

[edge of darknes]

Are you the same cock, ''whoops sorry'', Mypost who got kicked off TIA for being clueless and constantly slagging Rafa.

 

Fuck me! You mean RAWK isnt the only forum to kick you out for not holding the party line?

 

Man that sucks!

[Staniola]

It translates better in voice

 

Can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.

[redfromtubebar]

Ours last year, was close enough to it. We scored 5 goals in 5 months at one point, playing quite frankly, appalling football. Still, the man in charge had his devotees who couldn't tolerate anyone else in the job, and still can't.

 

Fair enough, last season was appalling, particuarly, away from home. I would argue though that the guy in charge had his devotees mainly due to the fact he had brought home number 5 and took us as close to winning the title at any point since 1990. Hodgson hasn't done anything in his career to suggest that he's capable of doing the same. I want him to succeed, obviously, but he won't get the same timeframe that his predecessors enjoyed. Mainly due to the fact that 90% of Liverpool fans wanted Kenny and he, himself, wanted the job also.

[mypost]

RH is a UEFA Cup winner and finalist. He's taken an underperforming team to the World Cup. All since Kenny hung up his jacket here.

 

The last coach brought home the CL, but that was a good long time ago. We couldn't wait forever for him to get it right, recruiting another 40-odd players while constantly demanding more money. Even more so given the state the club is in.

 

We gave him 6 years. We must give his replacement a decent (not similiar) timeframe to turn us round again. 2 games isn't a decent timeframe under any circumstances.

[Kevin D]

Poor fucker, he's come into an impossible job. His margin of error is zilch. He cannot be making mistakes like last night. Self-inflicted wounds are the worst.

 

Hopefully this has registered, because IMO he is in a race against time to get his game plan across before these fragile prima donna's collapse into a poor semblance of a mid-table team like they did last year.

 

All the excuses in the world mean nothing because this is playing out as we expected with the added bonus of keeping Torres and Gerrard and adding Cole.

 

I can't remember who said it, but for the next 10 games adopting Benitez's unspoken mantra that a draw is as good as a win might be the best course.

 

It's exactly for that reason, I fear he'll go back to the conservative football that has served him well over his career but ultimately lacks the ingenuity and attacking edge a trophy chasing side needs. If he does that - at Birmingham away for example - it will indicate how his reign will go.

 

Does anyone else get frustrated when they read " best supporters in the world"( never heard a sober red call us that) 100 different times?

[redfromtubebar]

We gave him 6 years. We must give his replacement a decent (not similiar) timeframe to turn us round again. 2 games isn't a decent timeframe under any circumstances.

 

I'm not saying that 2 games is a decent timeframe though?! I'm simply pointing out that Rafa was given 6 years because he EARNT it through trophies, champions league performances and obvious progress up until the 2009/2010 season. Hopefully Hodgson does enough to show that he is worth persevering with also.

 

If Hodgson performs similarly then of course he deserves a similar timeframe in which to do the job. He has a very difficult job indeed, more difficult than Rafa inherited in 2005 and the biggest problem he will face is that a large majority of the supporters made it clear that they wanted somebody else who was available and wanted the job. With this in mind, I don't believe the supporters are going to have anywhere near the same patience with Hodgson that Rafa was given.

 

I'm not impressed by his CV though mate. Uefa Cup winner in the mid-nineties or not.

[piscinin]

It's exactly for that reason, I fear he'll go back to the conservative football that has served him well over his career but ultimately lacks the ingenuity and attacking edge a trophy chasing side needs. If he does that - at Birmingham away for example - it will indicate how his reign will go.

 

Does anyone else get frustrated when they read " best supporters in the world"( never heard a sober red call us that) 100 different times?

 

TBH I don't fear it, I hope for it. It's a horrible cliche but I'm all for "steadying the ship" and a measured evolution. Stop fucking with tactics that the players aren't used to; or positions they need to adapt to; get them focused, motivated and gently transition them from what they've been doing day in day out for 6 years to where he wants them to be.

 

There's too much at stake to have Joe Cole learning the #10 role on the job, or to mess with N'Gog by spending three years training him into a clone of TOrres and then asking him to play alongside him!

[VladimirIlyich]

Roy came from a team that finished ninth last season and got to the Europa cup final to a team that finished seventh and got to the Europa cup semi final.

 

We think hes made a big step up but in reality he hardly has so a dose of realism needs to be taken by the supporters.

 

If he gets investment then we are an outside chance for the top 4 but if he doesnt then we might be lucky to finish better than seventh again.

 

At least give the man a chance,he hasnt been in football for 30 years if he doesnt know what hes doing.

 

He also came closer to winning a trophy than our last manager last season so he's been appointed on merit.

[23CARRAGOLD]

Roy came from a team that finished ninth last season and got to the Europa cup final to a team that finished seventh and got to the Europa cup semi final.

 

 

They finished 12th mate, but hey whats another 3 places added on when anything outside the top 4 is nowhere anyway.

 

As for Roy, he has a massive problem.

 

The Rafapoligists are beating poor arl Roy with Rafa statistics all the time.

 

The people who wanted Rafa sacked are backing Roy to the hilt and in the process are sniping at the 'team Rafa has left behind'.

 

There are 2 distinct battlelines and our current manager is placed firmly in the middle of the crossfire. I seriously believe we are gonna see the man out of the job in record time for a full time Liverpool manager. I believe the pressure will become unbearable with the tensions in our support and the split over previous manager and current manager.

 

You have people who believe the last manager shouldn't have been sacked ripping into Roy. You have people who wanted the last manager out the door explaining away poor management decisions because they feel they have to back the current manager to the hilt to justify themselves wanting the last gaffer out.

 

Unprecedented times for our current manager. I dont see him lasting long.

[Redshadow]

Roy's taken a step up in AMBITIONS yes but in terms of PLAYERS - Sadly not or not That much as we weren't to far off the Fulhams, Birminghams, even the Evertons (whisper it), et al at the last campaigns conclusion and very little has changed since then more's the pity; Two seasons ago when the idea of Hodgson managing us would have been as plausible as finding life on Venus (so close to the title were we and so powerful was the team at that time) Yes - it would have been a HUGE step up in terms of both the team/players And the ambitions for it for Hodgson to handle but now? Sadly THAT team has gone (Certainly the heart of it has) yet our ambitions as The Team's fans remain as they have for 2 decades now - Hmm, a team that is in NO way capable of meeting our ambitions as a fanbase yet said ambitions being as distant as the Stars? Not just a case of where have I heard THIS one before? But also it sounds pretty hard to me as a job and Hence Roy it Must be said, really does have THE impossible job and then some but since his brief is to steady the ship and we are as yet in rocky waters indeed? Roy just MIGHT prove the right man for this mammoth task.......

 

Incidentally to whoever said it earlier - Rafa' wasn't GIVEN 6 seasons initially. He had a truly awful First season in the league and only redeemed it with the CL, something he then solidified with an FA Cup the following year and Another CL final the year after, he then had numerous Huge rows with H & G over the next 3 seasons after that (normally 1 HUGE row per season I think you'll find over everything from Jurgen Klinsmann and Rafa's Contract to Transfer Funds and which players to buy) culminating in his departure this June but in NO way was Rafa' 'given' 6 seasons - He earned them in battle and not just with other teams - Sometimes with his own board - Rafa' understood just HOW far to push them to get what he wanted by the end without getting fired - IF results had remained consistently good under him? They dare not have touched him as his contract was bombproof and he was one of the FEW managers in modern football who understood his own club's fans.

 

Anyway, I believe that if at all possible, the despised leeches would have got rid of Rafa' FAR sooner than they did had they been able to get away with it. Anyway given how appaling we were in his first league season - I think we should cut Roy some slack and give him at Least that amount of time to lay some sort of foundations - Possibly longer given the fact he's working with one arm tied behind his back AND blindfolded effectively (does anyone REALLY believe he'll get ALL the Mascherano money? I don't). I sometimes get the feeling that Roy will need to GROW into this job as well (ESPecially once we're stabilised) as I correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think an Englishman's been in charge at a club THIS big (there's only 2 REAL Giants in England - We're FAR bigger than Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs et al - ALL of them in fact bar one other and you KNOW who that is no?) since Ron Atkinson was sacked from 'Them' in 1987 and with us? Not since Phil Thompson as Caretaker in 2002 and Roy Evans in 1998 when he left have we had an Englishman in charge.

 

I get the feeling it's all rather a shock to Roy actually; I've watched him in our first few games and he seems somewhat overwhelmed by it all. It may just be me but he looked shocked by the applause he got from our fans when he came out for the Arsenal home game and he often looks like he's looking around him as if to say ''Is this really ME in charge here" like a child in wonderment. His interviews and his view that he HAD to take the job and what a rare opportunity/honour it was and his speaking of/knowledge of our history reflects well on him but again - I get the feeling that we have a manager who can't quite believe he's there. It may take some time for that initial awe to wear off and Roy to 'Grow' into the job (Fergie was like that in HIS first days at United as well - Not that Roy's Anything like HIM) but I hope it happens soon. I hope he displays a little more tactical nous in our next away game as well for the formation at City on Monday was somewhere between Kamikaze and Suicidal!! I think Roy needs to study our away games at the better sides under our previous manager somewhat.

 

Anyway, given all that's gone on and the circumstances that brought him here? I hereby say we should save any slating of Roy until he's at LEAST into his second season no? (and that's provided the ownership situation is sorted out meantime) It's only fair to judge him as we did his immediate predecessor and that predecessor may have enjoyed some money and a stable(ish) situation at the Very top compared to now as well as some extraordinary luck in the CL but in the league that season? We were Very ordinary indeed. Actually then, looking at last night - Quite clearly not much changes no? More's the pity for us long suffering fans. I think this chapter of LFC's History can be safely entitled "Beginning Again..........AGAIN". I wonder how many More times we're doomed to repeat it until we Finally get it right. Who knows? But something tells me this Won't be the last time.............

Edited August 24, 2010 by Redshadow

[Irishlad]

Graz AK A 0-2 win

Tottenham A 1-1 Draw

Man City H 2-1 Win

Graz AK H 0-1 Loss

Bolton A 1-0 Loss

 

Did Rafa have the over-reaction we're seeing now after this frankly very underwhelming start?

[mattyq]

As ever it's all about the results. If he gets them then everyone forgets about Rafa and we're all happy. If he doesn't the cracks in the support get wider.

It's the same pressure as any Liverpool manager faces. There were people here who wanted Rafa gone the season after we won no5. A lot of Mancs want the drunken sot gone. It's a tough business is football management

[piscinin]

They finished 12th mate, but hey whats another 3 places added on when anything outside the top 4 is nowhere anyway.

 

As for Roy, he has a massive problem.

 

The Rafapoligists are beating poor arl Roy with Rafa statistics all the time.

 

The people who wanted Rafa sacked are backing Roy to the hilt and in the process are sniping at the 'team Rafa has left behind'.

 

There are 2 distinct battlelines and our current manager is placed firmly in the middle of the crossfire. I seriously believe we are gonna see the man out of the job in record time for a full time Liverpool manager. I believe the pressure will become unbearable with the tensions in our support and the split over previous manager and current manager.

 

You have people who believe the last manager shouldn't have been sacked ripping into Roy. You have people who wanted the last manager out the door explaining away poor management decisions because they feel they have to back the current manager to the hilt to justify themselves wanting the last gaffer out.

 

Unprecedented times for our current manager. I dont see him lasting long.

 

There's more to it than a simple Rafa vs. Roy thing though. Benitez had a very distinct philosophy, that a lot of people bought into, it was modern and cerebral. There's a lot of people that are willing to let Rafa go, but they won't let the philosophy go. And certainly not for a good old fashioned 442, get stuck in lads. Benitez's way was different to what were people were used to, so once assimilated, its no great surprise that people see everything through that prism. That's not supporting Rafa over Roy, it's just how people are conditioned to see things now. If Hodgson wins games, the prism will rotate a bit and we'll see it all a bit differently.

 

To put it all down some deliberately divisive motivation is to miss a significant point and to be, ultimately, divisive (not saying you are, but there is that sense around the interweb).

[23CARRAGOLD]

There's more to it than a simple Rafa vs. Roy thing though. Benitez had a very distinct philosophy, that a lot of people bought into, it was modern and cerebral. There's a lot of people that are willing to let Rafa go, but they won't let the philosophy go. And certainly not for a good old fashioned 442, get stuck in lads. Benitez's way was different to what were people were used to, so once assimilated, its no great surprise that people see everything through that prism. That's not supporting Rafa over Roy, it's just how people are conditioned to see things now. If Hodgson wins games, the prism will rotate a bit and we'll see it all a bit differently.

 

To put it all down some deliberately divisive motivation is to miss a significant point and to be, ultimately, divisive (not saying you are, but there is that sense around the interweb).

 

I didn't want Roy myself mate. I saw it as a MASSIVE step down for our club to be appointing him as a manager. I accepted the last manager leaving after what happened last season but to appoint him with Roy baffled me, it really did.

 

Despite my indifference to his appointment I made a pledge to back the man. I would support him as long as I was seeing he could do the job properly.

 

And believe me there are people who, quite simply, do not like Hodgson because of Rafas dismissal and him of all people getting the job. They are out there, as are the people who believe Kenny should have got the job and who are also starting to snipe at Roy. We live in a world nowadays where people want to be proved right, and want to point out to everybody when they were right. That is happening now, people are looking at last night and saying 'I told you so'.

 

Last night was my first kick in the teeth in that department. To see us go to City and play with that formation was shocking and amateurish.

 

In my eyes a manager goes through a season game by game, and is judged by the fans game by game on the decisions he makes. Some weeks good, some weeks bad, but most importantly they are what he as a manager makes them. In this day and age of internet we have a place where we can come and discuss what has happened and point out where we feel something has gone wrong.

[Redshadow]

Piscinin - You said his margin for error is zilch and you're right my friend - Unfortunately - History is a burden to ALL our managers given what we've won (it SHOULD be a spur - but financially we're not able to think like that at this moment in time). Add to that the fact that for nigh on FIVE decades now, EVERY manager we've had in succession has won something or a lot of things to add to that history? And well, you can see just WHAT pressure Roy's under right from the Starting Gun No? However, it must also be said that Every manager in our history has been backed to some extent (often to the hilt) by the board - even the last one was for a while. Just consider for a moment though, If it's bad at clubs like Forest or Chelsea with THEIR managers being compared ONLY to say Jose Mourinho or Brian Clough and what they won - How much worse must it be at clubs like us?

 

It wouldn't just be the most recent manager in terms of 'what the last guy won/him not being a patch on the last bloke etc' that Roy has to deal with but the last EIGHT or so. ALL of them won something or other with some doing very well indeed........And Roy will not only be expected to continue AND add to that but he will also be compared to them to his own detriment CONSTANTLY until he has his own trophies won to show off; It's already started to some extent with the doctoring of that banner by Sky - To try and imply that Roy must live up to our previous managers is all, well and good but when it's something like the last EIGHT or so in a row with 4 or 5 of them on a banner like THAT? That just puts unecessary pressure on him and was a mean trick by Sky. I've heard it mentioned on more than one website/TV interview and Radio Show about the record of Roy's immediate predecessors or so as well often with the line "no pressure then Roy" which usually is meant as the precise Opposite. No wonder managers who take our job need diplomacy amongst their skills and if results get worse? It will only get worse for Roy unfortunately as the ghosts of our Recent Past rise up once more.........

Edited August 25, 2010 by Redshadow

[23CARRAGOLD]

Was you there?

 

No, was it different to what was on the telly?

[PeteH]

I cant believe that anyone actually hates Roy, fucks sake hes only been here 5 minutes. He is a decent man, who deserves better than this bollocks.

 

Yes, he has big shoes to fill, but him and the team need our support. At least give the fella a chance.

[piscinin]

I cant believe that anyone actually hates Roy, fucks sake hes only been here 5 minutes. He is a decent man, who deserves better than this bollocks.

 

Yes, he has big shoes to fill, but him and the team need our support. At least give the fella a chance.

 

Seems like there are a lot of people out there that love to hate. Doesn't compute for me, but hey ho. If thats what lights their fire then I'm glad I'm not them 'cos that shit's a cancer.

[mattomac]

City and Arsenal are better teams than last year and we are worse and yet after two games against the same opposition we are no better or worse off in points than last year.

 

He's won easily at a Canter two Europeon games and we hardly moved into second gear against Trabzanspor which he also won. Up til last night I thought his results though not brilliant were solid. Last night was woeful and he took too long to change it which really isn't Roy from what I know. His record though not amazing is one which suits the Liverpool of today, he's punched above his weight at clubs that have been unfashionable. He took Switzerland to the World Cup which was quite frankly astonishing and got them to Euro 1996.

 

His biggest and most comparable job was at an Inter Milan side which was on the slide. It's almost bar the debts a carbon copy of our side, he achieved relative success and the Chairman of Milan has since said it was the start of the rebuild into what is one of the most successful clubs.

 

Woy won't win us the title, at best he will be a trangression manager at worst as someone said a Fall Guy. I can see Woy going if/when new owners arrive. I generally think the guy can do it for us and he did something last night that our previous manager didn't and admitted our flaws.

 

I'm a massive fan of Rafa but could that infighting continue? His flirting with Juventus was rather annoying after a season in which he had achieved nothing and had constantly played the same way. I felt it was time for a new guy and once he had gone we didn't really have much to choose from. I just think we would achieving the same under Rafa, remember it wasn't just Roy who played Lucas continously.

 

The next two games are must win's for Roy and will show us where were at, also the team will get a chance to do this also. Reina needs to play on Thursday as he needs a confidence boosting win. If we lose or draw to West Bromich Albion then some of the Roy haters will have more of a point (but again too early, 10 games mim in my view) but if we don't and we get through in Europe while beating West Bromich Albion what next for Roy? the title again?

 

Oh and this away record that keeps being mentioned... He did that with Fulham, most teams like Fulham are built to make the home ground stable and nick the odd point on the road. Can we have his Malmo away record or Switzerland away record before we start comparing like to like.

[mypost]

Did Rafa have the over-reaction we're seeing now after this frankly very underwhelming start?

 

There were 2 other away defeats soon afterwards, one of them in Europe. In fact, his away league record that season was to put it mildly, poor.

 

Some people are judging Roy after 2 games, others are not prepared to give the tried and (100 years) trusted 4-4-2 formation even that long, judging it because it didn't go well at 1 of our hardest games in the season under any formation.

 

If the phrase "you're only as good as your last result" applied, Roy would be a firm candidate for it. Last week, he was applauded for getting a result at home, this week he's crucified for losing A game. No wonder he looks confused.