Cameron: "Cuts will change our way of life"

[Thomo123]

 

The major myth of social housing is that it's for people on benefits, but there's loads of people living in them who are employed. They were designed to get people away from being the victims of slum landlords. What have you got now? Unaffordable private housing and rising private rental sector - quelle surprise.

 

Its easier to bang in a bedroom tax than to reign in the private landlords charging a fucking fortune for barely habitable shitholes. 

[Stu Monty]

 

The major myth of social housing is that it's for people on benefits, but there's loads of people living in them who are employed. They were designed to get people away from being the victims of slum landlords. What have you got now? Unaffordable private housing and rising private rental sector - quelle surprise.

 

 

Yup. The same way that most people on benefits are working. It's never described in the way it should be; employers scrounging off the state whilst keeping wages low.

[Section_31]

The Tories have erased every speech from before 2010 from their website apparently, we aren't at war with Eurasia - we're selling them Hawk fighter jets.

[Brownie]

I take the Lib Dem position on it. I have no issue with the principle that social housing should only meet someone's needs, but I don't see how you can penalise people for not downsizing if there's nowhere to downsize to. Tenants shouldn't be blamed for the failure of successive Labservative governments to ensure sufficient appropriate housing stock.

What an odious turd you are. You should go into politics.

[Strontium]

What an odious turd you are. You should go into politics.

Maybe you should explain what's odious about it, then you wouldn't look like such a thick fucking prick.

[VladimirIlyich]

That's undoubtedly true of some of the money, but all of it?

 

 

It's easier said than done, isn't it. I mean, I don't know how you would go about getting money off Philip Green's wife, given that she owns the business and she doesn't live here.

 

Although the government has actually struck deals with lots of these tax havens and closed a lot of loopholes that can be closed, incidentally. That's this coalition government, not the Labour one that was in power for 13 years and did nothing about the problem.

Still the same blame game on a government that left office three years ago,yawn.

What have your group of feeder fish done to redress this imbalance?

[Chairman Meow]

The technique of constantly blaming the other parties is one of the biggest issues with politics for me.

 

All the time Labour had power it was "the mess we inherited from the Tories" now we have the Tories and the Libs it's "the mess we inherited from Labour".

 

Now is the mess the Tories and Libs have inherited the same mess that Labour inherited? If so does that not mean it's actually a Tory mess which Labour couldn't fix? Or did the Labour government fix that mess but then created a new one which the Tories/Libs can't fix?

 

Or could it possibly be, and this is my favourite for the actual answer, that they are all lying and it's a combination of both because they all have their noses in the same trough and have a vested interest in lining their own pockets while maintaining the status quo so don't give a shit anyway? 

[Pureblood]

1. If it was that simple then this government, the last government and the governments that have gone before would have done so. They are not dodging any tax they are quite legally structuring their affairs to minimise their tax exposure. Morally bankrupt but legal.These are organisations that operate across international boundaries so the UK cannot sort it out alone. It needs worldwide co-operation to make it happen and the last time that happened was ...  errrrrr..... hmmmm - I don't think it has ever happened ever - for anything. You can dream that nationalisation is the answer but I would bet you a tenner to an ounce of shit that prices wouldn't drop by a penny if they were nationalised. I don't want nationalisation - I want real competition and real regulation. 

2. see 1.

 

Real competition and real regulation isn't going to happen.  That's what we were told we'd be getting and all we get is price fixing and bills rising way above the rate of inflation.  So it doesn't work and that's proven.  Better to try something different.  And just because something has never been done before (I don't know if that's true) doesn't mean it's impossible.  Your attitude is defeatist and narrow minded.

[Rico1304]

Real competition and real regulation isn't going to happen.  That's what we were told we'd be getting and all we get is price fixing and bills rising way above the rate of inflation.  So it doesn't work and that's proven.  Better to try something different.  And just because something has never been done before (I don't know if that's true) doesn't mean it's impossible.  Your attitude is defeatist and narrow minded.

Another investigation into price fixing finds it's not happening but you 'know' it is.

[Pureblood]

Another investigation into price fixing finds it's not happening but you 'know' it is.

 

No, I didn't know that.

[Stu Monty]

Another investigation into price fixing finds it's not happening but you 'know' it is.

 

The idea that people should take the regulator seriously is laughable. As is the idea that you should just dismiss whistleblowers' claims of collusion and price fixing.

 

I give the energy regulators as much of my respect as I do the banking regulators that saw nothing to regulate before the whole system nosedived.

 

You have to have a quite Disney view of the world to take the stance you're taking Rico (or be massively biased and unable to extract your opinions from your company).

[Red Phoenix]

1. If it was that simple then this government, the last government and the governments that have gone before would have done so.

 

I don't think they would have because they'd have probably faced huge funding problems. There's the funding for their campaigns, then there's probably plenty of other transfers going on that we'll never know about whilst they're in office, to keep things rolling along like they are now.

 

For more on their funding see here : http://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/2011/09/30/the-biggest-conservative-donors-from-beyond-the-square-mile/

 

http://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/2011/09/30/hedge-funds-financiers-and-private-equity-tycoons-make-up-27-of-tory-funding/

[Rico1304]

The idea that people should take the regulator seriously is laughable. As is the idea that you should just dismiss whistleblowers' claims of collusion and price fixing.

 

I give the energy regulators as much of my respect as I do the banking regulators that saw nothing to regulate before the whole system nosedived.

 

You have to have a quite Disney view of the world to take the stance you're taking Rico (or be massively biased and unable to extract your opinions from your company).

I don't know anything detailed about banking, but as i understand it the bankers lobbied for years for deregulation and 'proved' it was working by generating massive profits for everyone concerned. We didn't know it was a house of cards until it all came tumbling down. Again, willing to be proved wrong.

 

Energy is massively under the spotlight and has been for years, finding evidence of colluision would smash everything. Journalist, whistle blower, regulator, whoever found it would be a hero - and there are loads of organisations with cash and incentives trying to do just that. One thing I do know about the industry is that the big 6 hate each other with a passion, to keep this quiet would be almost impossible. There have been enough strong personalities fired or moved aside from the very top with genuine axes to grind yet still nothing.

[Stu Monty]

Also, it is partly Labour's fault that there is a lack of housing, that cannot be denied.

 

If they'd have spent on it then the Lib Dems would have just hit them for "going mad with the credit card!" again though. As they do for Labour having the temerity to invest in public infrastructure that the Tories let go to wreck during their tenure.

 

I'd give more of them the steam off my piss if they were actually consistent with ideals instead of with party message to damage opponents.

 

"We hate ID cards!" - Brilliant. I can get behind that. I presume that you'll be raising hell about GCHQ's massive invasions of privacy then?

 

"................." Pardon? "................." Oh. Thanks for that.

[Stu Monty]

I don't know anything detailed about banking, but as i understand it the bankers lobbied for years for deregulation and 'proved' it was working by generating massive profits for everyone concerned. We didn't know it was a house of cards until it all came tumbling down. Again, willing to be proved wrong.

 

Energy is massively under the spotlight and has been for years, finding evidence of colluision would smash everything. Journalist, whistle blower, regulator, whoever found it would be a hero - and there are loads of organisations with cash and incentives trying to do just that. One thing I do know about the industry is that the big 6 hate each other with a passion, to keep this quiet would be almost impossible. There have been enough strong personalities fired or moved aside from the very top with genuine axes to grind yet still nothing.

 

Rico, banking was still regulated, if very lightly. It still had experts passing opinion on the state of things. What "we" now is irrelevant when someone is pointing out that regulators aren't worth shit.

 

That hero comment is a very strange view of the world. You don't seem to have a very clear view of what usually happens to journalists, whistleblowers and regulators that speak out. I'll give you a clue; they rarely get a fucking medal, and even more rarely keep their job/reputation intact.

[Rico1304]

Rico, banking was still regulated, if very lightly. It still had experts passing opinion on the state of things. What "we" now is irrelevant when someone is pointing out that regulators aren't worth shit.

 

That hero comment is a very strange view of the world. You don't seem to have a very clear view of what usually happens to journalists, whistleblowers and regulators that speak out. I'll give you a clue; they rarely get a fucking medal, and even more rarely keep their job/reputation intact.

My point is that banking actively pushed for looser regulation, allowing them to take bigger risks and fuck us all over. As they were a 'success' the spotlight wasn't on the regulator to find anything wrong.

 

A whistleblower might get done over, but a regulator wouldn't, neither would someone who's no longer in the industry - of which there thousands. Look at the journalist who broke the MP expenses scams, she's done ok out of it. Fuck could you imagine the money the tabloids would pay for evidence?

[Bobby Hundreds]

The technique of constantly blaming the other parties is one of the biggest issues with politics for me.

 

All the time Labour had power it was "the mess we inherited from the Tories" now we have the Tories and the Libs it's "the mess we inherited from Labour".

 

Now is the mess the Tories and Libs have inherited the same mess that Labour inherited? If so does that not mean it's actually a Tory mess which Labour couldn't fix? Or did the Labour government fix that mess but then created a new one which the Tories/Libs can't fix?

 

Or could it possibly be, and this is my favourite for the actual answer, that they are all lying and it's a combination of both because they all have their noses in the same trough and have a vested interest in lining their own pockets while maintaining the status quo so don't give a shit anyway?

 

The blame game happens on every level. You only have to read comments on any site on any political story. The ones that get me are the people who genuinely believe that all of society's ills stem from the fact someone claims benefits. Sarcastic comments like here's me working hard 5 days a week struggling to pay the bills when these scum get everything for nothing living in luxury with flat screen tvs and mobile phones... Fuck me every tv is flat screen these day do you want them to go back in time and buy a nice wooden panel fucker just to please you. Yeah I'm sure the vast majority on benefits live in big fucking mansions in the poshest areas drinking champagne laughing at those who work. Its such a tiny minority that have no intention of working its unbelievable.

 

Where's that rage against the wealthy who have more than enough to survive yet still try to fleece as much as they can. Every day there is a story on yet another way politicians are fleecing money, today its about MPs renting offices off their own party's using taxpayer money. Somehow their not leeches. Some genuinely would drop Welfare with no thought to why it exists other than they think if you are not in work right now you must be feckless and lazy. You wish you could say to them drop the welfare state and see what happens.... Millions in desperate situations can't afford to survive do you think they will just lie there or would they look at those with everything and decide to take some back. All society needs is fairness and common sense.

 

Osbournes new idea is tax breaks for employers who take on under 25's the man is about as big a dickhead as could possible exist. What happens business take on a load of twenty five year olds on zero hours don't give them much work they're classed as full time,..... gooood tick the government employment box, the company saves loads of money they're happy too; only the under 25 is as fucked now as he was before. A company could get rid of any non full time contracted person over 25 generally with families and maybe a mortgage and replace them with their nice tax break employee. How come the solution to every problem is more tax, we need more tax.. Drinking problems! more tax on alcohol will solve that.... obviously! yet the solution to anybody/business with money is tax break tax break. Cameron must think how much are we worth sam... " about 10 million" oh right tax breaks to anyone with more than 9 million in the bank.

 

I love this line we've took millions out of paying tax all together, anyone on under 10 grand a year. Brilliant. Nothing more than a PR gesture. Their still as piss poor as they ever where but that soundbite and being able to say it is pure political gold. Half that 10 grand a year is what some MPs claim off the tax payers to pay their heating bill on their second home.

 

Anyway my opinion isn't that welfare is too high overall ( it probably is for a tiny minority ) but that wages are way too low. But..but.. Business can't afford to pay people more than 6 pound an hour... Tough fucking shit if the work is there and you aren't prepared to do it yourself then pay someone fairly to do it if not do it your fucking self or don't take on more work than you can handle. But.. But.. Small business will be effected... So fucking what. Great you have a small business I admire you and your aspiration but that business is getting bigger and more successful and you need help then pay a fair wage.. What you can't afford it? then do it your fucking self, your future success shouldn't be built on fleecing someone else. " how can I get rich if people actually want me to pay them enough money to survive" woe is me the poor small business man. Fuck you. what you think with the ever dwindling hourly rate and lack of full time jobs that people are actually going to be buying your shit. Nope sorry. This kind of went off into the rant thread type post, I need to stop looking at the news in the morning.

[Stu Monty]

My point is that banking actively pushed for looser regulation, allowing them to take bigger risks and fuck us all over. As they were a 'success' the spotlight wasn't on the regulator to find anything wrong.

 

A whistleblower might get done over, but a regulator wouldn't, neither would someone who's no longer in the industry - of which there thousands. Look at the journalist who broke the MP expenses scams, she's done ok out of it. Fuck could you imagine the money the tabloids would pay for evidence?

 

Why does a regulator need a "spotlight"? They're a fucking regulator. They thought it was fine, the global system collapsed. Ace regulation.

 

Rico, MPs expenses are absolutely nothing like the energy market. How many billionaires give a fuck about MPs taking some shit? None.

 

If you're a regulator who wants to speak up then you'd better check that there's absolutely nothing in your closet that they can ruin your life with. Your tabloid comment is just ridiculously naïve. When Palast was laying into the oil industry and into Blair the Mirror assisted in trying to set him up in a honey-pot and smeared his name in a big exclusive. Wake up mate. Murdoch probably fucking holidays with some of the big hitters in the energy industry.

[Strontium]

Also, it is partly Labour's fault that there is a lack of housing, that cannot be denied.

 

If they'd have spent on it then the Lib Dems would have just hit them for "going mad with the credit card!" again though. As they do for Labour having the temerity to invest in public infrastructure that the Tories let go to wreck during their tenure.

I don't really have an issue with infrastructure spending, I don't think anyone does. Infrastructure spending is usually an investment.

 

The sort of thing I have an issue with are PFI contracts which we're locked into until the middle of the century that leave hospitals paying 300 quid to get a lightbulb changed. Calderdale Hospital costing £65m to build, but costing the taxpayer £770m in PFI payments. If you want to talk about public money being funnelled into private hands, I'd suggest you look at the PFI contracts signed by the last government.

 

I'd give more of them the steam off my piss if they were actually consistent with ideals instead of with party message to damage opponents.

 

"We hate ID cards!" - Brilliant. I can get behind that. I presume that you'll be raising hell about GCHQ's massive invasions of privacy then?

 

"................." Pardon? "................." Oh. Thanks for that.

I think we're, not unreasonably, waiting for the parliamentary investigation to be completed?

 

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/oct/17/uk-gchq-nsa-surveillance-inquiry-snowden

 

The extent and scale of mass surveillance undertaken by Britain's spy agencies is to be scrutinised in a major inquiry to be formally launched on Thursday.

 

Parliament's intelligence and security committee (ISC), the body tasked with overseeing the work of GCHQ, MI5 and MI6, will say the investigation is a response to concern raised by the leaks from the whistleblower Edward Snowden.

 

Sir Malcolm Rifkind, the committee chair, said "an informed and proper debate was needed". One Whitehall source described the investigation as "a public inquiry in all but name".

Nick Clegg, who had been asking for the oversight regime to be looked at afresh, quickly welcomed the committee's move. A source close to the Liberal Democrat leader said on Wednesday night: "We very much welcome the ISC's decision to broaden the scope of their investigation.

 

"The deputy prime minister has been an outspoken advocate of the need for us to have a proper debate about these complicated and important issues. He very much backs other voices getting involved in that debate and looks forward to the ISC doing some of it in public."

[lifetime fan]

I take the Lib Dem position on it. I have no issue with the principle that social housing should only meet someone's needs, but I don't see how you can penalise people for not downsizing if there's nowhere to downsize to. Tenants shouldn't be blamed for the failure of successive Labservative governments to ensure sufficient appropriate housing stock.

That isn't lib dem position is it though Stronts?

 

Only 4 of your MP's refused to vote for it. And the rest know full well there isn't the provision available so are happy to tax people with no where to move.

[Rico1304]

Why does a regulator need a "spotlight"? They're a fucking regulator. They thought it was fine, the global system collapsed. Ace regulation.

 

Rico, MPs expenses are absolutely nothing like the energy market. How many billionaires give a fuck about MPs taking some shit? None.

 

If you're a regulator who wants to speak up then you'd better check that there's absolutely nothing in your closet that they can ruin your life with. Your tabloid comment is just ridiculously naïve. When Palast was laying into the oil industry and into Blair the Mirror assisted in trying to set him up in a honey-pot and smeared his name in a big exclusive. Wake up mate. Murdoch probably fucking holidays with some of the big hitters in the energy industry.

You tell me that MPs are in the billionaires pockets, so I'd imagine they'd want to stop anything rocking the boat.

 

Now you are saying the regulators are corrupt or protecting themselves because of skeletons in cupboards. So two so we trust? You?

[Stu Monty]

I don't really have an issue with infrastructure spending, I don't think anyone does. Infrastructure spending is usually an investment.

 

The sort of thing I have an issue with are PFI contracts which we're locked into until the middle of the century that leave hospitals paying 300 quid to get a lightbulb changed. Calderdale Hospital costing £65m to build, but costing the taxpayer £770m in PFI payments. If you want to talk about public money being funnelled into private hands, I'd suggest you look at the PFI contracts signed by the last government.

 

 

I think we're, not unreasonably, waiting for the parliamentary investigation to be completed?

 

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/oct/17/uk-gchq-nsa-surveillance-inquiry-snowden

 

 

I'd imagine you already know my views on PFI. Scandalous the way it was done.

 

Yes, after seeing the ruthless grilling that the select committee gave on its first big test I'd definitely say people should wait to see what Rifkind and his mates come up with. Definitely. I never jump the gun whilst Hazel Blears is still looking to start speaking truth to power. It'll be vital to forming a sensible opinion. *Bangs head on table*.

 

Even if it is the "right" thing to do it would seem that it hasn't stopped the Tories calling for journalists to be thrown in jail for providing the public with information on their government collating their private details.

 

Just remember when reading their conclusions, everyone on that select committee; GCHQ have access to their communications. If a newspaper can threaten an MP with outing them then I'd fully expect a spy agency to have the nuts to do the same.

[Stu Monty]

You tell me that MPs are in the billionaires pockets, so I'd imagine they'd want to stop anything rocking the boat.

 

Now you are saying the regulators are corrupt or protecting themselves because of skeletons in cupboards. So two so we trust? You?

 

Why? If the boat rocks they just get new MPs. It's small fry.

 

Why is it so hard for you to understand that people won't speak up if it means they'll be ruined? It's human nature. If I'm aware of disgraceful, negligent behaviour in the Oil industry, from investigative journalists, then what is your explanation for that not being public knowledge? Because whoever you are if you pipe up they can, in many different ways, fucking wreck you so it tends to stop all but the few on the fringes from making a big deal about it. I don't understand how more people don't have that as a foundation for all information they receive.

 

I love the idea that you think that if you blew the whistle to the media on something dodgy at work that could cause massive problems for them they wouldn't go into full attack mode and smear you with all sorts of shit.  

[RedRazor]

Real competition and real regulation isn't going to happen.  That's what we were told we'd be getting and all we get is price fixing and bills rising way above the rate of inflation.  So it doesn't work and that's proven.  Better to try something different.  And just because something has never been done before (I don't know if that's true) doesn't mean it's impossible.  Your attitude is defeatist and narrow minded.

Defeatist and narrow minded? Try realistic.

 

You can carry on believing that someone, somewhere will somehow pull all the countries of the world together to agree an equitable global strategy for Corporation Tax while I hope that a UK government will one day empower the Ofgem regulator.

[Pureblood]

Defeatist and narrow minded? Try realistic.

 

You can carry on believing that someone, somewhere will somehow pull all the countries of the world together to agree an equitable global strategy for Corporation Tax while I hope that a UK government will one day empower the Ofgem regulator.

 

Corporation tax is just one way, though.  An off the cuff suggestion, that is all.  There must surely be other ways.  That's what I mean by narrow minded - you're not even prepared to entertain the idea.