Barclays Capital Appointed to Find a Purchaser for the Club

[coop]

Makes total sense that but what I dont get it why have the RBS given them 6 months more, surely from now till July a buyer can be found. Or is that being too impatient?

 

Going purely on the press article regarding RBS they have said Hicks and Gillett have until July to prove they are actively seeking to sell the club.

 

It appears that the meeting last week was to discuss the options available to the owners and after countless attempts to find investment it seems now they have finally agreed the best course of action is to sell up.

 

Again going purely on press reports it seems that Broughton will be more or less a broker for the deals and Hicks and Gillett will hope that both Broughton and BarCap can use their contacts throughout the business world to bring in 'new' interest.

 

Broughton is here only short term and i wouldn't pay much attention to the press reports about Hicks and Gillett wanting £600m as thats just posturing.

 

Hicks and Gillett want out and to do that they can not afford to set such a high price and there is no doubt in my mind they would accept a lot less as long as it cleared the debts.

[coop]

I wish I could share your optimism Coop.

 

I see what you mean re: Broughton but in what way is he going to be different from Purslow? Purslow was brought in for exactly the same reason - to find investors (minority or majority). It makes no difference at the end of the day as Hicks can still refuse to sell!

 

In giving them extra 6 months, RBS ARE refinancing. They re-financed last time on the basis that the debt will be reduced. Now they are re-financing based on owners' agreement to sell - even they the previous promise hasn't been fulfilled. If the two cunts can find another bank after 6 months, RBS can do fuck all about it as their loan will get settled.

 

You could be right though - this might be the beginning of the end of Gillett and Hicks but I'm not going to put the champagne on the ice yet. People like Gillett and Hicks didn't become rich by selling assets at the first sign of trouble. They are fucking leeches and they became rich by finding "ways" to run their businesses. Remember, Gillett once went bankrupt but that didn't stop him from becoming rich again using borrowed money. Hicks has had his fair share of trouble with his businesses.

 

Purslow and Broughton are different in that Purslow was appointed to bring investment into the club to the tune of £100m so they could pay off what RBS were asking.

 

The percentage of the club was not important purely that he got the £100m

 

If the Rhone Group bid was legit then you would say that he did his job and who knows who else showed interest but were put off by Hicks and Gillett.

 

The difference with Broughton is he has been asked to broker a deal for a complete buyout for the club not a percentage.

 

RBS have made it clear going on those press reports that the owners need to satisfy the bank by July they are seeking to sell the club so Hicks turning everyone down would not please the banks and they would cancel the extension.

[HJohal]

I agree with the sentiments that this seems to indicate the nail is in the coffin for Hicks and Gillet.

 

However could be a difficult summer with no investment there will be a neutral budget again.

[Drewas]

So just to recap:-

 

'There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know.

There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things we know we don't know.

But, there are also unknown unknowns. These are things we don't know we don't know.'

 

:wallbutt:

[redsfan]

Going purely on the press article regarding RBS they have said Hicks and Gillett have until July to prove they are actively seeking to sell the club.

 

It appears that the meeting last week was to discuss the options available to the owners and after countless attempts to find investment it seems now they have finally agreed the best course of action is to sell up.

 

Again going purely on press reports it seems that Broughton will be more or less a broker for the deals and Hicks and Gillett will hope that both Broughton and BarCap can use their contacts throughout the business world to bring in 'new' interest.

 

Broughton is here only short term and i wouldn't pay much attention to the press reports about Hicks and Gillett wanting £600m as thats just posturing.

 

Hicks and Gillett want out and to do that they can not afford to set such a high price and there is no doubt in my mind they would accept a lot less as long as it cleared the debts.

 

Ah ok so by July they need to be attempting to sell the club not necessarily have sold the club by July. I do hope this is the nail in the coffin, especially the coverage by Sky news in the business section seems to be viewing this as this is it sale time. All the reports though do indicate that they have ran out of options now. I hope they have.

[Carra_is_legend]

Purslow and Broughton are different in that Purslow was appointed to bring investment into the club to the tune of £100m so they could pay off what RBS were asking.

 

If the Rhone Group bid was legit then you would say that he did his job and who knows who else showed interest but were put off by Hicks and Gillett.

 

The difference with Broughton is he has been asked to broker a deal for a complete buyout for the club not a percentage.

 

The key is your 2nd paragraph. If they were put off by the Rhone group just about a week ago, what makes you think they had a total change of mind within a week?

 

I'm not looking to debate with you as I have no idea what the fuck is going to happen in 6 months. This could go the way you have said (G&H fucking off) or the way I have said (RBS offering them another 6 months from Dec based on yet another promise).

 

If I remember correctly, Purslow did mention that any potential deal could involve G&H completely selling off. If Purslow brought a deal for £500m for the whole club for example, I don't think G&H would have knocked it out of hand.

 

They knocked the Rhone deal because they didn't agree with the valuation. This situation could continue again for the next 6/9 months. As I said, whoever is the chairman or director, end of the day G&H should agree to the deal.

 

And if you think they will be ready to walk away (with very little profit) as long as the debts are cleared, I think you are in cuckoo land.

[redsfan]

I agree with the sentiments that this seems to indicate the nail is in the coffin for Hicks and Gillet.

 

However could be a difficult summer with no investment there will be a neutral budget again.

 

very true however I can think of oh a good few 7 players off the top of my head we could sell to generate a bit of money. Ok its far from ideal but some of the shite we have and fact that we have so many players at the club, if we could survive one more summer without new owners I think we could just about do it.

[redsfan]

The key is your 2nd paragraph. If they were put off by the Rhone group just about a week ago, what makes you think they had a total change of mind within a week?

 

I'm not looking to debate with you as I have no idea what the fuck is going to happen in 6 months. This could go the way you have said (G&H fucking off) or the way I have said (RBS offering them another 6 months from Dec based on yet another promise).

 

If I remember correctly, Purslow did mention that any potential deal could involve G&H completely selling off. If Purslow brought a deal for £500m for the whole club for example, I don't think G&H would have knocked it out of hand.

 

They knocked the Rhone deal because they didn't agree with the valuation. This situation could continue again for the next 6/9 months. As I said, whoever is the chairman or director, end of the day G&H should agree to the deal.

 

And if you think they will be ready to walk away (with very little profit) as long as the debts are cleared, I think you are in cuckoo land.

 

I think they are after a bidding war, investors pitting off other investors. So much media coverage and restructuring of the club, i wouldn't be surprised if they managed to get 50-80 million above the actual price of the club. But this is all guestimation and I am not exactly Alan Sugar!

[Kennys_spell]

The key is your 2nd paragraph. If they were put off by the Rhone group just about a week ago, what makes you think they had a total change of mind within a week?

 

I'm not looking to debate with you as I have no idea what the fuck is going to happen in 6 months. This could go the way you have said (G&H fucking off) or the way I have said (RBS offering them another 6 months from Dec based on yet another promise).

 

If I remember correctly, Purslow did mention that any potential deal could involve G&H completely selling off. If Purslow brought a deal for £500m for the whole club for example, I don't think G&H would have knocked it out of hand.

 

They knocked the Rhone deal because they didn't agree with the valuation. This situation could continue again for the next 6/9 months. As I said, whoever is the chairman or director, end of the day G&H should agree to the deal.

 

And if you think they will be ready to walk away (with very little profit) as long as the debts are cleared, I think you are in cuckoo land.

 

I'm not sure their minds have changed in a week - I think they've accepted a full sale may be needed for quite some time. The Rhone deal would have given them a little more time and took some of the pressure off from RBS but that deal was knocked back because Rhone essentially tried to get complete control on the cheap. Much like Morgan did with his cheeky bid.

 

As regards Purslow, you're right he did say that there were a number of potential purchases for the whole club but the valuation placed on the club by the Leeches was unrealistic.

 

As I said before, I think the pressure put on them by RBS has forced them into this situation which is to agree a complete sale of the club at an agreed range of Price which will have been put on the club by BarCap.

 

There will be a period of time (in this case Six months) that the Leeches can play with to see if they can entice a bigger bid but they WILL be required to sell before the six months is up.

[Carra_is_legend]

RBS have made it clear going on those press reports that the owners need to satisfy the bank by July they are seeking to sell the club so Hicks turning everyone down would not please the banks and they would cancel the extension.

 

Sorry Coop, it doesn't work quite like that. RBS cannot turn around in the 1st week of July and say "Sorry Mr. Hicks, you didn't quite talk well to the potential investors so we can't offer you an extension".

 

An extension will be signed and sealed weeks/months before that (if not already). I agree with you and the reports, the two cunts may have "promised" the bank that they are ready to sell. They might have appointed Barclays Capital to that effect. And appoint the cocknee to run the club and find a buyer.

 

I'm not saying they won't sell. I'm just saying, regardless of what RBS seeks or regardless of what Barclays Capital or the new guy brings to the table, it really depends on G&H's valuation.

[coop]

The key is your 2nd paragraph. If they were put off by the Rhone group just about a week ago, what makes you think they had a total change of mind within a week?

 

I'm not looking to debate with you as I have no idea what the fuck is going to happen in 6 months. This could go the way you have said (G&H fucking off) or the way I have said (RBS offering them another 6 months from Dec based on yet another promise).

 

If I remember correctly, Purslow did mention that any potential deal could involve G&H completely selling off. If Purslow brought a deal for £500m for the whole club for example, I don't think G&H would have knocked it out of hand.

 

They knocked the Rhone deal because they didn't agree with the valuation. This situation could continue again for the next 6/9 months. As I said, whoever is the chairman or director, end of the day G&H should agree to the deal.

 

And if you think they will be ready to walk away (with very little profit) as long as the debts are cleared, I think you are in cuckoo land.

 

We already know they accepted a bid of £450m from a consortium in Kuwait which is a lot less then the £600m they are rumoured to be wanting.

 

Is it possible that they knocked back the Rhone bid as not only did they not agree with the valuation (£250m i think it was for the club) it also meant both owners remaining at the club, something they now have made clear they do not want to do.

[coop]

Sorry Coop, it doesn't work quite like that. RBS cannot turn around in the 1st week of July and say "Sorry Mr. Hicks, you didn't quite talk well to the potential investors so we can't offer you an extension".

 

An extension will be signed and sealed weeks/months before that (if not already). I agree with you and the reports, the two cunts may have "promised" the bank that they are ready to sell. They might have appointed Barclays Capital to that effect. And appoint the cocknee to run the club and find a buyer.

 

I'm not saying they won't sell. I'm just saying, regardless of what RBS seeks or regardless of what Barclays Capital or the new guy brings to the table, it really depends on G&H's valuation.

 

Pretty obvious that contracts will be drawn up regards the extension.

 

Im also certain RBS as well obviously as BarCap will be informed of the minimum price set by Hicks and Gillett.

 

Lets say for arguements sake its £400m and someone offers that amount but Hicks turns it down as he feels someone might offer more then he is in breach of contract and obviously not actively seeking to sell the club.

[zigackly]

I think personally they knocked back the Rhone bid because it was never a serious bid, just a few of their cronies trying to flush out other investors. Bit like Prince Faisal, there's no chance that was serious interest but all parties were prepared to pretend it was.

 

Pretty much everything they've done has been purely a press stunt the whole time they've been here. They're just a pair of conmen hoping that they could flush out someone with more money than sense.

 

I dearly hope their bluff will be called before they've managed to destroy us.

[Carra_is_legend]

Pretty much everything they've done has been purely a press stunt the whole time they've been here. They're just a pair of conmen hoping that they could flush out someone with more money than sense.

 

Exactly the reason why I'm NOT feeling any sense of optimism that their end is near.

 

Their whole idea could be to get another 6 months. Who knows? They might be waiting for Hicks to sell some of his business in the States so he has some money to play with. Gillett has some money from his sale so if Hicks sells his, could they use some of that money as deposit to borrow the £237m and settle RBS? Especially if the lending market re-opens in 6 months time? Quite possible.

[Carra_is_legend]

Lets say for arguements sake its £400m and someone offers that amount but Hicks turns it down as he feels someone might offer more then he is in breach of contract and obviously not actively seeking to sell the club.

 

There lies the problem, Coop. If top analysts say LFC is worth no more than £300m, would the two cunts put £300m price tag on us? Doubt it.

 

If analysts know what the club is actually worth, do you think the two cunts don't? Remember what Purslow said - no one will buy at the two cunts' asking price.

 

Also, if they want to put £300m price tag on us, do they really need Barclays Capital? They have appointed Barclays Capital most likely because they want something like £400m - £450m. Which puts things back to square one.

 

All speculation of course.

[coop]

Exactly the reason why I'm NOT feeling any sense of optimism that their end is near.

 

Their whole idea could be to get another 6 months. Who knows? They might be waiting for Hicks to sell some of his business in the States so he has some money to play with. Gillett has some money from his sale so if Hicks sells his, could they use some of that money as deposit to borrow the £237m and settle RBS? Especially if the lending market re-opens in 6 months time? Quite possible.

 

Any sale of Hicks' other business interests will see a number of U.S based banks pursue him aggressively for their money.

 

He owes about $500m over there so i doubt he will be in a position in the short term anyways to have money to 'play with'.

 

Gillett i don't think made that much out of the sale of the Canadiens and what he did make his NASCAR ventures are crying out for.

 

Gillett and Hicks have never intended to be here long term and the whole business plan was to lend money for the club, bring in third party investment, lend more money for the stadium then sell for maximum profit.

 

For me they are using the exact same business plan that DIC were rumoured to be using in that infamous '7yr exit strategy'.

 

The only difference is they don't have a rival bidder who can grass them up to Mihir Bose.

[Kennys_spell]

Exactly the reason why I'm NOT feeling any sense of optimism that their end is near.

 

Their whole idea could be to get another 6 months. Who knows? They might be waiting for Hicks to sell some of his business in the States so he has some money to play with. Gillett has some money from his sale so if Hicks sells his, could they use some of that money as deposit to borrow the £237m and settle RBS? Especially if the lending market re-opens in 6 months time? Quite possible.

 

Anything is possible of course and the scenario you outline could come to pass - however, Hicks is having major problems selling his assets in USA and Gillett won't be putting his limited funds at risk to help Hicks through his personal storm.

 

Both RBS and BarCap will have discussed possible outcomes and studied the options. It seems clear to me that the most realistic option is the one we are being presented with here.

[zigackly]

As I understood it coop, DIC were not planning to leverage the club into extinction in their seven year plan and did actually intend to build a stadium, but maybe you've heard something different mate.

[WaltonRed]

Tom Hicks and George Gillett ready to put Liverpool up for sale | Football | The Guardian

 

I dont like this bit:

 

The Americans are expected to announce they will stand down as co-chairmen this week although, given the extension from the RBS and the bank's insistence that £100m of the club's £237m debt is repaid, their controversial tenure is likely to continue for some time.

[Kennys_spell]

There lies the problem, Coop. If top analysts say LFC is worth no more than £300m, would the two cunts put £300m price tag on us? Doubt it.

 

If analysts know what the club is actually worth, do you think the two cunts don't? Remember what Purslow said - no one will buy at the two cunts' asking price.

 

Also, if they want to put £300m price tag on us, do they really need Barclays Capital? They have appointed Barclays Capital most likely because they want something like £400m - £450m. Which puts things back to square one.

 

All speculation of course.

 

I imagine there will be a "Range" of costs - minumum and maximum sale prices acceptable to both the Leeches and the Banks.

 

I think that's why they have brought BarCap in as an "Independent" arbiter of values.

[coop]

As I understood it coop, DIC were not planning to leverage the club into extinction in their seven year plan and did actually intend to build a stadium, but maybe you've heard something different mate.

 

DIC will have lent money to buy the club mate its how companies like that work.

 

They were coming in with Zabeel Investments to buy the club (75% DIC 25% Zabeel) and no doubt would have built the stadium by now.

[Carra_is_legend]

Hicks may be owing huge amounts in US but that hasn't stopped him from rejecting LFC bids, has it?

 

As I said, these men haven't become rich by shaking in their boots at the first sign of trouble. Wheeling and dealing is what they do best.

 

And I see the 6-month extension as nothing but that - wheeling and dealing.

[zigackly]

DIC will have lent money to buy the club mate its how companies like that work.

 

They were coming in with Zabeel Investments to buy the club (75% DIC 25% Zabeel) and no doubt would have built the stadium by now.

 

I understand that mate but there are loans and there are loans. Hicks and Gillett are not exactly credit worthy and haven't managed to arrange any long term financing so they are paying through the nose. I believe I'm right in saying that DIC's lines of credit would have been much better for us.

[coop]

Hicks may be owing huge amounts in US but that hasn't stopped him from rejecting LFC bids, has it?

 

As I said, these men haven't become rich by shaking in their boots at the first sign of trouble. Wheeling and dealing is what they do best.

 

And I see the 6-month extension as nothing but that - wheeling and dealing.

 

How long do they keep extending for though.

 

We are at a point now where we can just about afford the repayments so we can not afford anymore debt.

 

Lets just say Hicks and Gillett get another extension in 6 months we will still be in the same situation but it seems more then likely without Champions League football.

 

Once City get in the Champions League they will be hard to shift without investment into the playing staff something Hicks and Gillet can not afford.

 

It may well be that Hicks and Gillett know they can not achieve their aim of building the stadium so know they need to get out now before the club sinks any further.

[WaltonRed]

So are we expecting Broughton to be unveiled this week?

 

Is he going to tell us the truth or is he going to do a Purslow?