Rafa: In or out?

[cochcaer]

It's quite sweet that some of you would trust these two buffoons to hire a new manager. Beware of what you wish for, it might be another Jurgen.

[Juan Galonso]

some teams can just have have a 'golden season' though.if you couple that with some of the so called better the teams having a poor season.strange things happen............everton finishing 4th in 2005 is a great example.

 

Eleven red squares to eleven green ones is a comeback of Lazarus proportions. Well done.

[Original202]

I lost faith two years ago - almost exactly to the day actually.

 

Nothing much has changed. Every so often something will happen which perks things up, something good happens, something magical even, but then reality hits home again and I realise the good things are the exception and not the rule.

 

However, given the overall state of the club I see no benefit in him going. Until the ownership situation is sorted then we're going nowhere. I'd rather keep some sort of stability until the end of the season, but long term Benitez is not the man.

[Guest TK-421]

TK421. You negged me saying ''Shove your five minutes'' in reference to my post about Rafa will be in another job in five minutes if he left us. I think you misunderstood me.

 

I was actually paying Rafa a big compliment there saying because he is football obsessed I can't see him being out of the game for long because of his genuine love of the game.

 

The fact you see that as an ''insult'' to Rafa is a sad indictment of this forum nowadays.

 

Sorry about that, I completely misinterpreted what you were saying.

[Jim H]

Nice to hear the voice or reason.

Can't say I'm happy with some of his ideas, i.e Benayoun subbed and Babbel left to rot but I've supported the Reds for 50 years and over that time believed in sticking by our managers. Raffa has done more for us than slack alex did for the mancs in his first 5 years. The problem is the owners and the way Moores sold us down the river, Raffa deserves better than to be attacked due to their failings.

[Torvald Utne]

Eleven red squares to eleven green ones is a comeback of Lazarus proportions. Well done.

 

Just shows that the mongs are running this place at the moment. He will be back to red once we start winning again.

[Code]

People are saying we cant afford to sack him, what about the other alternative?

[paulie1969]

Raffa has to take the blame,he signed the players who are not up to standard,excluding Gerrard,Torres,Reina.The rest of the squad would struggle to get into the other top 3 sides.At the moment without Gerrard and Torres we are rubbish and the same argument will still be taking place next season .Its alright blaming the owners(who i detest) but he has spent over 200m and we are no better now as we were under Houllier or Souness for that matter.Who the fuck is reccommending these players,the scouting system must be fucked also.Hopefully Gerrard and Torres will be back Sunday and try and get a bit of creditability back to the season.What a fucking nightmare few weeks it has been.

[cochcaer]

but he has spent over 200m and we are no better now as we were under Houllier or Souness for that matter.

 

Oh dear, ye of short memory.

[Red Nick]

It's quite sweet that some of you would trust these two buffoons to hire a new manager. Beware of what you wish for, it might be another Jurgen.

 

Exactly some real Bufoons in here as well as owner buffoons.

 

its looks like weve got the owners our fans deserve.

 

Sad for the few fans who can actually see the bigger picture

[Red Nick]

Oh dear, ye of short memory.

 

Your on form tonight, Best me to it again.

[ferryman]

What poll are you looking at? Serious question.

 

It WAS 91%. Now it´s 70 something. That´s what an open poll is about. It changes over time...

[chrisbonnie]

Great post Paul as always but how many times can you allow someone to pull one out the hat?

 

We are poor and then we turn it round and everyone accepts it even though we dont win anything because we've gotten over the poor patch.

 

We have to see the bigger picture in my opinion.

 

exaclty, its similar to the Spurs situation of last year, we all know Juande Ramos is a very astute mnager, yet he couldnt do shit with them, cue a new manager and hey presto, with the same bunch of players, they`re back to winning games

 

too many slumps for me, it seems every season we do it, im sick of them at this stage,

[Red Nick]

I lost faith two years ago - almost exactly to the day actually.

 

Nothing much has changed. Every so often something will happen which perks things up, something good happens, something magical even, but then reality hits home again and I realise the good things are the exception and not the rule.

 

However, given the overall state of the club I see no benefit in him going. Until the ownership situation is sorted then we're going nowhere. I'd rather keep some sort of stability until the end of the season, but long term Benitez is not the man.

 

Thats one of the more balance point of views on here as of late.

 

I dont think he will be here next season even if we won the Title

[TSC]

Sacking Rafa would be like worrying about getting rid of your cold while totally ignoring the growing cancerous tumour until it becomes inoperable.

 

Let's say he goes. What decent manager would want to come here with no money for transfers and two idiots as owners who not only don't get on but oversee a shambolic structure which appears to be riddled with internal politics.

 

Notwithstanding the fact that they'd be starting off as 'unpopular' with many simply because they'd have been appointed by the current owners.

 

Not saying no-one would be interested. You could prob take your pick from Allardyce, McLaren et al, or some foreign coach who would be a yes man to the owners.

 

This isn't a big defence of Rafa as it would be fair to expect a better nucleus of players after 5 years than we currently have, and I think he's let a few decent players go while giving the benefit of the doubt to 'average-to-poor' players.

 

Just don't see the point of sacking him while the current owners remain. He may well want away anyway given the current situation, but prob won't walk if contractually he misses out on a pay out.

 

It's all looking a bit pear shaped to be honest.

[zigackly]

Sacking Rafa would be like worrying about getting rid of your cold while totally ignoring the growing cancerous tumour until it becomes inoperable.

 

Let's say he goes. What decent manager would want to come here with no money for transfers and two idiots as owners who not only don't get on but oversee a shambolic structure which appears to be riddled with internal politics.

 

Notwithstanding the fact that they'd be starting off as 'unpopular' with many simply because they'd have been appointed by the current owners.

 

Not saying no-one would be interested. You could prob take your pick from Allardyce, McLaren et al, or some foreign coach who would be a yes man to the owners.

 

This isn't a big defence of Rafa as it would be fair to expect a better nucleus of players after 5 years than we currently have, and I think he's let a few decent players go while giving the benefit of the doubt to 'average-to-poor' players.

 

Just don't see the point of sacking him while the current owners remain. He may well want away anyway given the current situation, but prob won't walk if contractually he misses out on a pay out.

 

It's all looking a bit pear shaped to be honest.

 

Your rep will arrive when I can give some more out.

 

Post more often, by the way.

[ferryman]

My father actually had lung cancer and a cold at the same time a while back. He got rid of the cold but it didn´t do anything vs the cancer.

 

I think this rep/neg stuff is kinda childish, but repped you anyways, TSC. Good post.

[jsjazz]

Rafa to stay. Even putting to one side the issue of how much would it cost to get rid of him, he's not had a level playing field.

People are demanding the league- we started behind the Mancs and Chelsea, the n*t sp*nd is barely £20M per season, he hasn't had the money to splash £30M on single players, he hasn't been allowed to buy his first choice players through lack of funds or lack of Parry action. He isn't a miracle worker- and nor would any other manager be in his situation.

He's been slated for buying too many squad players, now he's slated for not building up a strong enough squad- with what, magic beans? The youngsters are now getting games (?through necessity), but people are still not happy.

If you look at where we were 5 years ago, and where we were at the end of last season, you have to acknowledge the progress, in the League and in Europe- in fact I think we're still close to the top of the UEFA rankings. Yes we're going through a rough patch at the moment, not helped by injuries to Gerrard, Torres, Johnson, Carragher, Skrtel, Riera and god knows who else already. When everyone is fit I think the results will improve.

He seems to be a decent man, and I'd like to show some loyalty to our manager. I want the Yanks out and a settled off the field environment- there's no doubt in my mind the uncertainty and squabbling behind the scenes, and the failure to provide the promised funding this summer to take the next step has influenced the team. I don't suppose it helps if the manager's authority is eroded by the owners trying to find a replacement behind his back and more recently lying about him spending £117M plus the regular transfer war chest of £20M in the last 18 months.

Only if he is given decent support, financial and otherwise, in a stable environment is it fair to judge him, and I don't see that he's had that yet.

[jsjazz]

Oops- double post.

Edited October 21, 2009 by jsjazz
double post!

[Original202]

... he hasn't had the money to splash £30M on single players, he hasn't been allowed to buy his first choice players through lack of funds or lack of Parry action...

 

Yes he has. But he's always preferred to buy quantity over quality.

 

It's easy to say that if we hadn't signed Riera, Dossena and Babel we could have signed someone like Silva, but it's also true. None of those 3 players have ever held down a regular starting place and if we received an offer for them offering back what we paid for them they'd be accepted without a seconds thought*

 

*Assuming the money wasnt going back into the owner's pockets.

[rebel23]

Yes he has. But he's always preferred to buy quantity over quality.

 

It's easy to say that if we hadn't signed Riera, Dossena and Babel we could have signed someone like Silva, but it's also true. None of those 3 players have ever held down a regular starting place and if we received an offer for them offering back what we paid for them they'd be accepted without a seconds thought*

 

*Assuming the money wasnt going back into the owner's pockets.

 

 

so now he gets slated for doing the opposite and paying for quality.

 

Yes, if only he didnt sign X, Y, Z and bought so and so instead, if only every transfer worked out, it doesn't and your expecting too much.

 

Silva is on a 5 year contract and has been for a while, he's never been available and the prices quoted are 30 million+. There are much more wealthy clubs than us who couldnt get him so why do you expect them to sell him to us?

[Glass Kop]

People are saying we cant afford to sack him, what about the other alternative?

 

What, killing him? That might be taking things a stretch too far.

[rebel23]

the players we should have got in the summer were Negredo or Higuain out of Real Madrid and as part of Alonso deal but the yanks decided to roll the dice.

 

If Silva ever came here it would be because of Rafa's personal connections (he's a Valencia shareholder) and not because we're a rich club. In case you hadn't noticed attacking midfielders were going for 50-80 million in the summer and that is the kind of price Valencia wanted.

[jsjazz]

If he'd bought one player instead of Riera, Dossena and Babel, and that player had been injured, Rafa would have been slated for putting all his eggs in one basket. Not all the squad players have ben duds e.g. Arbeloa did a decent enough job.Some people see it as Rafa preferring quantity over quality, others see it as something he was forced to do to upgrade the squad bit by bit while not having enough money to buy quality players in all positions at the same time.

[Adebisi]

Next four games are MASSIVE. We could be out of the league*, Carling Cup** and even the CL.

 

*Some would argue we already are

**I'm sure many wouldn't cry too much if we went out of the CC, but losing to Arsenal and 6 defeats on the bounce would be too tragic.

 

I'm neither with him or fully against him at the moment. I'm losing my enjoyment for football in general with all what's gone on. I just can't help but feel we'll be having this exact same discussion in February and then again in May.