RBS and THAT loan extension

[Carra_is_legend]

I'd be amazed if every penny of the debt wasn't secured in some way against the club even if some of it was borrowed in the name of the holding club or the yanks. The selling price would have to be about £400m to clear the debt, interest and administration fees and costs.

 

I'm sure around £110 was from personal guarantees, letters of credit and cash from the cunts.

[aws]

I'm sure around £110 was from personal guarantees, letters of credit and cash from the cunts.

 

I don't think any outsider really knows for sure the precise details of their loan package but the fact that the yanks are giving guarantees means that the primary liability for the debt is with someone else i.e. the club. It might not be that easy to enforce the guarantees in practice which puts the club in the firing line.

 

Any cash deposit or letter of credit would be different because the administrator would nab those first.

[RedinSweden]

I'm sure around £110 was from personal guarantees, letters of credit and cash from the cunts.

 

110 quid? Fuck, I could have come up with that.

[Carra_is_legend]

I don't think any outsider really knows for sure the precise details of their loan package but the fact that the yanks are giving guarantees means that the primary liability for the debt is with someone else i.e. the club. It might not be that easy to enforce the guarantees in practice which puts the club in the firing line.

 

Any cash deposit or letter of credit would be different because the administrator would nab those first.

 

Personal guarantees are indeed a big thing for those in leverage business though. Once they start to fuck around with that, they will find it very hard to borrow money in future (in theory).

[Royal Family]

Haven't read all of the thread, but there is not a cat in hell's chance we'd go into administration.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there is only actually 150m debt on the club, the rest is on the owners is it not? I don't know the ins and outs of all that, but wouldn't that effectively mean the club would be put up for sale at £150m?

 

There'd be a queue of buyers lining up around the block at that price. Hell, our mate Rogan might even be able to raise that kind of money!

 

Hi Dave. Ultimately most, if not all, of the liabilities are on the club. Southampton had a not dissimilar structure and the Football league ruled that as the club was the only asset, so too must the club face the liabilities rather than the holding company. There's also diference legally between providing 'guarantees' and providing capital.

 

I know that RBS were quoting the Dubai representatives a price of just under £400m to clear the debt and liabilites, and that Dubai showed not one iota of interest. That was within the last 2 months.

 

If we're happy about trying to force the bank to take us into administration, which is what the original poster is in effect calling for, we might as well all just shift our allegiance to AFC Liverpool now.

[redrosetints]

Haven't read all of the thread, but there is not a cat in hell's chance we'd go into administration.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there is only actually 150m debt on the club, the rest is on the owners is it not? I don't know the ins and outs of all that, but wouldn't that effectively mean the club would be put up for sale at £150m?

 

There'd be a queue of buyers lining up around the block at that price. Hell, our mate Rogan might even be able to raise that kind of money!

 

maybe its a long shot, but im sure Risdale and leeds thought the same. 400m is required to clear the debt, will anyone be interested, even at that price ?

 

is it really worth the risk ?

 

We exist to win trophies, whatever we think of Waldorf and stadler, the fact is, we are very close to that, and Id be pretty f'd off if we ended up losing 10 points,a title and possibly more, just to get rid of those two.

 

United have far more debt and hate the Glazers, but under them they've won another euro cup, 3 more titles and possibly another euro cup next week.

[Roy Hobbs]

No. The wolves were at the door but they didn't go into administration. If Roman hadn't turned up when he did Chelsea would have been royally fucked.

 

He didn't get Chelsea for £1.00 he took on their debts as well.

 

He paid 20M-30M GBP for Chelsea and took on their debts i think. Wasn't it Bates that bought them and their debts for 1pnd.

[Scott_M]

Why don't we create so much we never have to pay any of it back?

[rebel23]

Hi Dave. Ultimately most, if not all, of the liabilities are on the club. Southampton had a not dissimilar structure and the Football league ruled that as the club was the only asset, so too must the club face the liabilities rather than the holding company. There's also diference legally between providing 'guarantees' and providing capital.

 

I know that RBS were quoting the Dubai representatives a price of just under £400m to clear the debt and liabilites, and that Dubai showed not one iota of interest. That was within the last 2 months.

 

If we're happy about trying to force the bank to take us into administration, which is what the original poster is in effect calling for, we might as well all just shift our allegiance to AFC Liverpool now.

 

the thing is they're just putting off the inevitable, the club is losing value in a falling market, the economy isnt going to get better so if they keep extending it's a fools paradise, sooner or later they have to pay it off and the value is falling, what are they going to do extend indefinitely or until a buyer is found? what is the end game?

[Catch22]

the thing is they're just putting off the inevitable, the club is losing value in a falling market, the economy isnt going to get better so if they keep extending it's a fools paradise, sooner or later they have to pay it off and the value is falling, what are they going to do extend indefinitely or until a buyer is found? what is the end game?

 

 

 

They are gambling that they can get the finance for a new stadium which would dramatically increase the value.

 

The chances of that are still low at the moment but they are substantially higher than at any time in the last 12 months

 

The banks now have liquidity but insufficient viable (using much tighter risk controls) projects to place that liquidity.

They could well get the stadium loan.

[Guest Ulysses Everett McGill]

Loving the apathy

 

And to think I was called Hick's puppet recently

[Guest Ulysses Everett McGill]

Loving the apathy

 

And to think I was called Hick's puppet recently

[Slimmy]

Loving the apathy

 

And to think I was called Hick's puppet recently

Andy, the question is would RBS even consider a 6 month extension if there was a buyer out there who could take on the club this summer?

[Royal Family]

Loving the apathy

 

And to think I was called Hick's puppet recently

 

Really? Where's the apathy? I've seen quite a sensible and engaged debate on this thread (largely because the usual suspects haven't hijacked it!) about the best way forward.

[The Acolyte]

There is no point in trying to force a quick-fire sale unless we know there is a suitable custodian out there with the finances at the ready to buy the club and a long term plan. Otherwise we could potentially end up in a similar situation to what we're in now with idiots for owners.

 

What the fuck?!

According to sources on here the only reason the deal with the Kuwaitis didn't go through was because Hicks got greedy.

No one wants to deal with them.

There are people out there with money and better buiness acumen then these two clowns. Would proper business men deal with Trotters Independent Traders? Hell no! They'd consider that beneath them so will wait till the bank sends up the smoke signals and Mr Leprosy and Mr. Siphilis have zero bargining power and will have to take any left overs there are once the new owners have dealt with the bank and they're won't be much!

Asking for a cash "deposit" 150M (75M each) not letters of credit or any of that breeze but real money will fuck the pair of them as neither wants to risk their personal wealth. If they can't come up with that then they have no business owning a football club.

[The Acolyte]

I do know that senior people - very senior - at RBS approached people from Dubai in the last month to explore whether they would buy us up if Tom and george defaulted. In other words at the price of the debt and fees - about £375-400m. The answer was no. So what is the bank to do?

 

What about the Kuwaitis, they were gonna pay more than that only a few months ago, they'd be interested at price no?

[Catch22]

Andy, the question is would RBS even consider a 6 month extension if there was a buyer out there who could take on the club this summer?

 

 

 

Of course they would & if they didn't they'd be a stampede of banks to replace them.

 

At the moment we have a loan that can be easily financed, essentially guaranteed by Sky, that makes the banks who lend it a lot of cash.

 

Moreover the banks themselves have got more liquidity than viable opportunities to lend it.

[The Acolyte]

No idea, I'm afraid. But some people need to sober up as to what the implications of administration would be. It means a fire-sale immediately. Yes, we'll be rid of Tom and george, but they will have the last laugh. Also, we need to stop treating Dubai as our potential saviours - i'm convinced that all they have been interested in since losing out in 2007 is embarrassing the owners (not that this take much) and undermining them.

 

RBS are taking the view that it's better to stick with tom and George for 6 months, and see if interest materialises, because at the moment there is no alternative.

 

Sorry.

Should really read this entire thread.

:wallbutt:

[Dirk]

I've not read through the thread, so forgive me if I repeat concerns that other people might have voiced. From a business perspective, it makes little sense for RBS to call in their loan. They are receiving interest payments and that is how they make their money. A further concern they probably have is that if they do call in the loan, it might make future borrowers concerned that viable businesses, which we are, are going to have their loans called in; potential clients will become wary of dealing with RBS.

 

The final point I will make is to RBS, the crafty cunts, it's nice how they've used the old "Gotta keep the Scousers happy otherwise they will riot," routine to hide behind my previous points. The truth is they are making money out of you, me and every other Liverpool supporter whilst in cahoots with the two pricks. They are blaming Liverpudlians for them sanctioning loans worth hundreds of millions. The reason given in Andy's opening post, which I have no reason to doubt, seems like a convenient excuse for them to cotinue to deal with the two shysters. I find it quite galling that they have made it look like they are doing us a favour by using that line, it's cute little excuse. Now people will be emailing them saying "No, you have it wrong, we don't want them here," which will have little effect because RBS are in bed with them, as much a part of the problem as Hicks and Gillett. Twats.

[The Acolyte]

Of course they would & if they didn't they'd be a stampede of banks to replace them.

 

At the moment we have a loan that can be easily financed, essentially guaranteed by Sky, that makes the banks who lend it a lot of cash.

 

Moreover the banks themselves have got more liquidity than viable opportunities to lend it.

 

People here keep forgetting that that Sky money is not there to keep the cancers warm. It pays wages and covers interest. It doesn't stretch that far.

Besides if we were covering it so well it leaves a few questions unanswered:

Why did the two pricks halt all contract negotiations?

Why are RBS asking for 150M cash for the refinance.

 

Also wouldn't be wise to scrutinise the letters of credit from the last refiinance as there value must've dropped by now?

[Catch22]

People here keep forgetting that that Sky money is not there to keep the cancers warm. It pays wages and covers interest. It doesn't stretch that far.

Besides if we were covering it so well it leaves a few questions unanswered:

Why did the two pricks halt all contract negotiations?

Why are RBS asking for 150M cash for the refinance.

 

Also wouldn't be wise to scrutinise the letters of credit from the last refiinance as there value must've dropped by now?

 

 

You & I as fans want Lfc to be as successful as possible.

 

But any banking deal is nothing about that: it purely aims to make a return which more than covers the risk of a default.

 

If you were to request a mortgage, all the bank does is assess your ability to repay.

You would be shocked & probably outraged if they said

"Well actually, if you drunk less & did this & went to evening classes & spent less time on TLW(!) then your life would be very different..."

 

Those cunts can comfortably cover the deal at the club's expense so any rational bank would correctly make the loan.

[coop]

The general feeling amongst everyone i have spoken/contacted regards this is whilst they want rid of the owners administration is too big a worry for them.

[Guest Ulysses Everett McGill]

The general feeling amongst everyone i have spoken/contacted regards this is whilst they want rid of the owners administration is too big a worry for them.

 

 

It would never reach the point where the club would go into administration

[ToxtethTerror]

Liverpool FC would never go into administration as UEM rightfully says. The league will always give a few months for investors to come in and there are a few Arabs out there who want us.

[Guest Ulysses Everett McGill]

Liverpool FC would never go into administration as UEM rightfully says. The league will always give a few months for investors to come in and there are a few Arabs out there who want us.

 

Wouldn't just be Arabs, Orville's mate has a few Americans on his books who are monitoring the situation.