Falklands: Should we stay or leave?

[The KillingMoon]

just reminds me of the very unpopular tory goverment on their arse after rising unenployment and the war helping them get elected again to wreak more havoc on working class people

[Fugitive]

This is a fellow who believes that the United States is deliberately giving cancer to the leaders of South American countries. Outside of Argentina, it's only really barmpots like him who recognise the claim of the Argies.

 

That's not exactly true.

 

A South American trading bloc has agreed to close its ports to ships flying the Falkland Islands flag.

 

Mercosur, which includes Brazil, Argentina, Paraguay and Uruguay, came to the decision at a summit in the Uruguayan capital, Montevideo.

 

But Uruguayan President Jose Mujica said British-flagged civilian ships that may supply the islands would still be allowed to use its ports.

 

The Foreign Office said there was "no justification" for the action.

 

The Falklands flag is flown by 25 boats, mostly fishing vessels operated in joint ventures with Spanish companies.

 

The Mercosur decision is the latest in a series by Latin American regional bodies designed to show solidarity with Argentina which has long claimed sovereignty over the Falkland Islands, which it calls Las Malvinas.

 

Britain has held them since the 1830s and says their future is not negotiable. The two countries fought a brief but bloody war over the islands in 1982.

 

Their dispute has flared again recently. Last year, Argentina accused the UK of breaking international rules by allowing oil drilling under a seabed off the islands, located in a vast area of potentially mineral-rich South Atlantic waters.

 

'Very concerned'

Britain has also refused recent requests to re-open negotiations on the sovereignty of the Falklands.

 

Uruguay proposed the move to close ports to Falklands-flagged vessels. Mr Mujica said: "We hold nothing against the UK. But we have a lot in favour of Argentina."

 

He said solidarity among South America's neighbours was key to his country's foreign policy, adding: "For the moment, this means accepting that this territory is a colonial British position in our America."

 

However, the president of the Falklands Chamber of Commerce, Roger Spink, told the BBC that they were a small community, and felt increasingly under blockade.

 

"If we were Palestine, the European Union would be up in arms," he said.

 

The Foreign Office, who called on Uruguay's ambassador in London to explain the move last week, said it was discussing the developments "urgently with countries in the region".

 

A spokesman said: "We are very concerned by this latest Argentine attempt to isolate the Falkland Islands people and damage their livelihoods, for which there is no justification.

 

"It is not immediately clear what practical impact, if any, this statement will have, which mirrors the language already used by the Union of South American Nations in 2010.

 

"But no-one should doubt our determination to protect the Falkland Islanders' right to determine their own political future."

 

Oil exploration

The Foreign Office called on Uruguay's ambassador in London to explain the move last week.

 

The chair of the Foreign Affairs Select Committee, Richard Ottaway, said the situation was "very unsatisfactory", with the ban seeming to be a breach of international law and tensions in the region escalating.

 

Tory MP Patrick Mercer called the ban "needlessly provocative".

 

Shadow foreign minister John Spellar said: "While this looks like a bit of a flag-waving gesture, Argentina should be in no doubt of the united determination of all parties in the United Kingdom to protect the Falkland Islanders' right to determine their own future."

 

But former Foreign Office minister Denis MacShane said the "hostile action" was aimed at London, not the Falklands, and blamed the coalition for weakening Britain's international standing.

 

The Labour MP said: "South American leaders know that Britain has fewer friends than ever before because of David Cameron's isolationist approach in Europe and the indifference to the Obama administration as most cabinet members are close to US neo-Cons.

 

"Brazil and other countries know that thanks to Liam Fox's defence cuts, the UK no longer has aircraft carrier capability so British maritime power projection has been fatally weakened by the government."

 

Argentina's President Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner, who took over the presidency of the trade bloc from Mr Mujica, thanked her fellow presidents for the show of support.

 

Delivering a speech to the summit, she said: "Malvinas is not an Argentine cause, it is a global cause, because in the Malvinas they are taking our oil and fishing resources.

 

"And when there is need for more resources, those who are strong are going to look for them wherever and however they can."

 

British companies are exploring for oil in the waters surrounding the islands, which are 400 nautical miles from the Argentine coast.

 

BBC News - South American states ban Falklands vessels from ports

 

Nuke the lot of them and claim them as ours.

[VladimirIlyich]

But former Foreign Office minister Denis MacShane said the "hostile action" was aimed at London, not the Falklands, and blamed the coalition for weakening Britain's international standing.

 

The Labour MP said: "South American leaders know that Britain has fewer friends than ever before because of David Cameron's isolationist approach in Europe and the indifference to the Obama administration as most cabinet members are close to US neo-Cons.

 

"Brazil and other countries know that thanks to Liam Fox's defence cuts, the UK no longer has aircraft carrier capability so British maritime power projection has been fatally weakened by the government."

 

Fair comment and something which is obviously not being reported.

 

Their dispute has flared again recently. Last year, Argentina accused the UK of breaking international rules by allowing oil drilling under a seabed off the islands, located in a vast area of potentially mineral-rich South Atlantic waters.

 

This is a justifiable grievance if the UK has broken international rules too.

 

Putting the oil argument aside for a minute,is it possible that the drilling could cause geological problems for Argentina because of its proximity to the islands?

 

Serious question on my part.

[Sugar Ape]

This is a fellow who believes that the United States is deliberately giving cancer to the leaders of South American countries. Outside of Argentina, it's only really barmpots like him who recognise the claim of the Argies.

 

I think most of Latin America back the argies over it. Sounds to me like Hillary Clinton thinks they have a genuine grievance as well or what else does she suppose we talk about?

 

QUESTION: (In Spanish)

And for the Secretary, it’s about the Falklands. The – President Fernandez talked about possible friendly mediation. Would the U.S. be considered – would the U.S. (inaudible) consider some kind of mediation role between the UK and Argentina over the Falklands? Thank you.

 

PRESIDENT DE KIRCHNER: (Via interpreter) (Inaudible) what we have (inaudible) by both countries as a friendly country of both Argentina and the UK, so as to get both countries to sit down at the table and address these negotiations within the framework of the UN resolutions strictly. We do not want to move away from that in any letter whatsoever, any comma, of what has been stated by dozens of UN resolutions and resolutions by its decolonization committee. That’s the only thing we’ve asked for, just to have them sit down at the table and negotiate. I don’t think that’s too much, really, in a very conflicted and controversial world, complex in terms.

 

SECRETARY CLINTON: And we agree. We would like to see Argentina and the United Kingdom sit down and resolve the issues between them across the table in a peaceful, productive way.

 

And another:

 

QUESTION: (In Spanish)

Interpreter: The journalist was just asking how the U.S. intends to negotiate to get the United Kingdom to sit at the table and address the Malvinas issue.

 

SECRETARY CLINTON: As to the first point, we want very much to encourage both countries to sit down. Now, we cannot make either one do so, but we think it is the right way to proceed. So we will be saying this publicly, as I have been, and we will continue to encourage exactly the kind of discussion across the table that needs to take place.

[Sugar Ape]

From an article today.

 

Brazil reiterates support for Argentina, denies any blockade to the Falklands — MercoPress

 

“Our position in support of the legitimate rights of Argentina over the Malvinas Islands sovereignty is historic. They come since the English took over the Islands in 1833: the then Brazilian empire, already independent, supported Argentina’s protest in London”, said Benoni Belli head of the Meridian Americas Desk at the Brazilian Foreign Affairs ministry.

 

Speaking with Veja, Brazil’s weekly magazine with the largest circulation Mr Belli said that the position of Brazil and the other members of Mercosur barring Falklands’ flagged vessels to regional ports is a long standing stance in support of Argentina and comes as no surprise, because South America wants to preserve the region as a zone of peace and prosperity.

 

“It is not correct to speak about a blockade. What exists is the non acceptance of a flag, so much so that it is not the vessel the objective of the measure, whether it is coming or going to the Malvinas Islands: the purpose of the measure is a flag which pretends to be the legitimate symbol of a territory under sovereignty dispute” said Belli.

 

He added “it would be incoherent to accept such a symbol; so much so that if vessels change flag, they can have access to all ports of the region”.

 

While brushing aside pressures from London on the issue of the vessels and Falklands flag according to Belli, the government of Brazil understands that the solution to the Malvinas issue is to preserve the region as a zone of peace and prosperity.

 

“This is most important. When we refer to the issue Brazil always has that long term objective in mind. It is a territorial dispute in South America which we want to see resolved, in the shortest time possible. If this happens we all win with a region ever more pacific and stable”, underlined the Brazilian diplomat.

[Section_31]

I still think the way Cameron alienated the rest of the EU has led to this South American 'gang up'. Argies got friends, we don't, what's up with that picture?

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

This is a fellow who believes that the United States is deliberately giving cancer to the leaders of South American countries. Outside of Argentina, it's only really barmpots like him who recognise the claim of the Argies.

 

I bet he also believe crazy stuff like that Americans are killing Iranian scientists, or that they've funded terrorist cells all around the world, or even that they've tried to assassinate foreign presidents with exploding cigars.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Oh, and Clinton can shut the fuck up, too. Diplomatic talks? Pull the other one.

[Dan]

Fuck them off,Fuck them all off and use the few quid you save on yourselve's.

Build schools and what not out of the money that you used to give them and northern ireland,which we dont want either so you can fucking keep that.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

What is the point of The Falklands?

 

Anyone?

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

The point in holding onto it? Oil. Gas. Pride.

 

The point in its existence? No idea.

[Section_31]

The main point is that it's people's homes and has been for generations, and these people want to live under British rule and not Argentine rule - a country to which these people nor their ancestors ever belonged, and who think they have a 'right' to it simply because it's close. They're cheeky, cheeky bastards.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

The main point is that it's people's homes and has been for generations, and these people want to live under British rule and not Argentine rule - a country to which these people nor their ancestors ever belonged, and who think they have a 'right' to it simply because it's close. They're cheeky, cheeky bastards.

 

Slippery slope that one, isn't it?

[VladimirIlyich]

Problem is,whats in it for the UK?

 

When I say that I mean we,the actual citizens of the UK and not the multinational businessmen who will benefit from any natural resources found in any case?

[Anubis]

A trading block showing solidarity with one of it's members is hardly surprising. We should just take out full-page adverts in their newspapers reading "Gracias por el petróleo!"

[Skidfingers McGonical]

The point in holding onto it? Oil. Gas. Pride.

 

The point in its existence? No idea.

 

I thought the census would be oil and gas, and I believe that is what the politicians angle is.

 

The main point is that it's people's homes and has been for generations, and these people want to live under British rule and not Argentine rule - a country to which these people nor their ancestors ever belonged, and who think they have a 'right' to it simply because it's close. They're cheeky, cheeky bastards.

 

That I understand, but have the Argentine's ever ruled the Falklands? I thought they had an we invaded and owned it like we did Hong Kong.

 

I'll be honest, I have never taken much notice of the Falklands, as it always came across as an island with 3 men, 8 dogs, 1 woman and 90,000,000,000 sheep. And it appears to be a damp dreary looking cold place to live. Oh and that Maggie used the victory in the Falklands as a mainstay to staying in power in her second election.

[janmolby]

The British laid claim to the islands before Argentina even existed as an independent country, surely therefore any counter claim should come from the Spanish?

[WaltonRed]

Mate of a mate who's in the army said they've all been told to be on stand by to go down for FW2 (which i'm calling it)

 

Its on by the looks of it.

[VladimirIlyich]

Mate of a mate who's in the army said they've all been told to be on stand by to go down for FW2 (which i'm calling it)

 

Its on by the looks of it.

 

Another homage by Dave to try and emulate his hero Maggie.

I think those school bullies did some serious psychological damage to him and hes becoming a bully himself.

[Stouffer]

Mineral/gas/fishing is what this is all about, and it's ours so fuck off Argentina.

 

War, really is great for OT so letsgettiton.

[Guest davelfc]

As someone quite recently summed it up between us and Argentina, it's two bald men fighting over a comb.

[VladimirIlyich]

Mineral/gas/fishing is what this is all about, and it's ours so fuck off Argentina.

 

War, really is great for OT so letsgettiton.

 

Its fuck off Argentina until their geography means that their ports are needed to transport oil/gas/minerals/equipment through them.

[Magic Sponge]

From the Guardian last night:

 

The Argentinian president, Cristina Fernández de Kirchner, has summoned the country's political elite and veterans of the 1982 Falklands war to the presidential palace for what is expected to be a significant announcement about the islands.

The Casa Rosada made the rare gesture of inviting opposition leaders to the Hall of Latin American Patriots for what is speculated to be an escalation in the diplomatic row with Britain over the islands' sovereignty.

Diplomats cleared their schedules for the event, scheduled for 10pm British time, after a week of increasingly heated rhetoric on the south Atlantic archipelago, which Argentina calls Las Malvinas.

Having mobilised much of South America and the Caribbean in its diplomatic and commercial squeeze - ships flying the Falklands flag are barred from the region's ports, depriving the islands of bananas and other fresh fruit - there was speculation Argentina would close its air space to Falklands flights, effectively blockading the civilian population. The weekly service by the Chilean flag-carrier, LAN is the islands' only air link with South America and main connection with the outside world.

In a separate move, the Argentine Football Association is considering a government proposal to name its top division after the General Belgrano, the navy cruiser sunk by a British submarine during the war. It is also due to debate naming the cup "Gaucho Rivero" after Antonio Rivero, a cattle herder feted as a folk hero by some Argentinians for killing five prominent British settlers in 1833 - the year London is accused of stealing the territory.

The diplomatic sparring has intensified in the runup to the 30th anniversary of the war, which started with an Argentinian military occupation on 2 April 1982 and ended 10 weeks later in victory for a British naval task force. Tension flared last year when Argentina protested at oil drilling and London's refusal to discuss sovereignty.

Two weeks ago, Argentina's official news agency, Telam, started a Malvinas page with banner pictures of Argentinian jet fighters, helicopters, tanks and soldiers. Last week Britain dispatched the destroyer HMS Dauntless and Prince William, a search and rescue pilot, claiming both deployments were routine.

A correspondent for the newspaper Clarin reported harsh sentiments from Port Stanley on Tuesday. The article quoted islanders referring to "fucking Argies" and was illustrated with a photograph of a gift shop mug with an altered map of South America that replaced Argentina with blue emptiness named "Mierda Sea". Mierda means "shit" in Spanish.

A senior European diplomat in Buenos Aires said Europe's economic crisis had emboldened Argentina, which was riding high on nine years of strong economic growth. "South America doesn't have the respect it used to have for Europe, it feels it is on top now and is flexing its new muscles."

A summit of leftwing leaders in Venezuela last weekend backed Fernández's campaign as a pan-regional cause. Her Venezuelan counterpart, Hugo Chávez, said Caracas would support its ally in a military conflict. "Thirty years ago Argentina was left on its own, but things have changed. The old dismantled empire should not believe that Argentina is alone because South America is here, Latin America is here." Ecuador's Rafael Correa called for sanctions against Britain.

Argentina's foreign minister, Hector Timerman, welcomed the solidarity. "Argentina is not alone, Great Britain is alone."

[a stoner]

Another homage by Dave to try and emulate his hero Maggie.I think those school bullies did some serious psychological damage to him and hes becoming a bully himself.

 

Really?? So you think 30 years ago we should have given the islands up and not protected the British civilians living on the islands? You think we should not protect those people now?

They still want to be British and stay on the islands that are their home so we surely have an obligation to protect them and their way of life.

[Magic Sponge]

Fuck it. Let's give Colchester back to the Italians while we're at it. Fuck Queen Boudicca.