Liverpool v Portsmouth Thread

[Red Phoenix]

Lucas' main problem is probably that he's never played regularly (obviously I can see why with the players before him, just saying.) so he can't get used to playing and settle down. He's still young though and should improve physically and skill-wise over time.

[Brownie]

Made up with the three points. I was very worried when I saw the team and expected a tense affair, which is certainly what we got.

 

Nice one to Matt83 for sorting me out with a stream that actually worked - I got to see the second half, so very much appreciated.

 

We actually played really well up until the goal I thought and it was always coming. We were moving the ball left and right instead of hoofing it which was good to see and the breakthrough was thoroughly deserved.

 

After the goal though we were really poor I thought. Maybe it was nerves but we totally stopped playing and allowed them to start putting cross after cross into the box and we were a bit fortunate to get away with it.

 

At the other end Benayoun made me almost throw my laptop out of the window with that chance he missed. It was a stunning ball from Gerrard and just needed to be hit first time but as ever Yossi had to take an extra touch and totally fucked it up! I'm a fan of Pennant but from what I saw he was really ineffective and deserved to be substituted.

 

Lucas was really average, IMO. Some may say it wasn't a 'rubbish' performance but if Xabi had played like that he would be slated. Lucas for me just doesn't really do anything. Sure, he can control the ball and pass it five yards, but that's about it. He was a passenger throughout the whole game and I think it stifled us a bit - I just don't see why he gets the odd game here and there but only time will tell if he'll develop into anything other than an average Premiership player.

 

I'm not going to go to deeply into the team selection because I already mentioned it before the game - I was disappointed though. Some may say that it worked because we won but I feel we'd have won the game much more comfortably with a different side, but anyway, onwards and upwards.

 

The weekend game will be really tough after Tottenham's come-back tonight so let's hope we're all celebrating another three points.

[Baz1969]

Shite performance primarily caused by the inclusion of Pennant and Lucas. We are blessed to have got three points. When will Rafa learn? Dont tinker with a winning team especially if it means involving useless donkeys like Pennant and Lucas. Its not rocket science - if it aint broke, dont try to fuckin fix it. We have a fantastic chance to pick up a lot of points from our next six or seven games but only if Rafa stops taking the piss.

[WhiskeyJar]

Just look at the PL table.....

 

1 Liverpool 10 26

2 Chelsea 10 23

3 Arsenal 10 20

4 Aston Villa 10 20

5 Hull City 10 20

6 Manchester United 9 18

7 Portsmouth 10 14

8 Manchester City 10 13

9 Middlesbrough 10 13

 

Whoever said Liverpool will be hard done to come third was insane....

[Hazel Motes]

Lucas was really average, IMO. Some may say it wasn't a 'rubbish' performance but if Xabi had played like that he would be slated. Lucas for me just doesn't really do anything. Sure, he can control the ball and pass it five yards, but that's about it. He was a passenger throughout the whole game and I think it stifled us a bit - I just don't see why he gets the odd game here and there but only time will tell if he'll develop into anything other than an average Premiership player.

 

I think Lucas was good. He played it simple, as he was given Masch more defensive role tonight. He tried to sit back, read through passes and interfere when possible - not an easy task. He was never out there to roam like Stevie, just to offer a simple passing opportunity as often as possible. People have a hard time appreciating and understanding that. I agree on the fact that this doesn't apply to the best of Lucas skills, Plessis or Spearing would probably be a better man for the job (given more experience), while Lucas would do better in a traditional CM role. Still, he did a good job. Nothing there to pick on, give the boy a break.

[Catch22]

Shite performance primarily caused by the inclusion of Pennant and Lucas. We are blessed to have got three points. When will Rafa learn? Dont tinker with a winning team especially if it means involving useless donkeys like Pennant and Lucas. Its not rocket science - if it aint broke, dont try to fuckin fix it. We have a fantastic chance to pick up a lot of points from our next six or seven games but only if Rafa stops taking the piss.

 

 

Seriously why do you bother?

 

It is obvious you don't want to think about the issues involved (rotating, tiredness, skill of squad etc) & actually sound like you want us to lose.

 

& this is not because i disagree with you - 4 changes may have been a mistake but others on here think that but are desperate for us to win & discuss it properly

 

Honestly, why bother?

[CrouchieBoy]

what about it shocked you though Brownie?

 

for my money, it was about how i would have set the lineup for tonight. I dont really rate Pennant even though he will stretch our play out wide. With that said he went missing a bit but I don't know who else I would have started for what we needed.

 

We are playing 4 games in 11 days, so to think we would our "first choice" team out there each game doesnt make much sense to me

[JohnnyH]

Just look at the PL table.....

 

1 Liverpool 10 26

2 Chelsea 10 23

3 Arsenal 10 20

4 Aston Villa 10 20

5 Hull City 10 20

6 Manchester United 9 18

7 Portsmouth 10 14

8 Manchester City 10 13

9 Middlesbrough 10 13

 

Whoever said Liverpool will be hard done to come third was insane....

 

It's very VERY early days mate. We could still finish anywhere.

[Brownie]

I think Lucas was good. He played it simple, as he was given Masch more defensive role tonight. He tried to sit back, read through passes and interfere when possible - not an easy task. He was never out there to roam like Stevie, just to offer a simple passing opportunity as often as possible. People have a hard time appreciating and understanding that. I agree on the fact that this doesn't apply to the best of Lucas skills, Plessis or Spearing would probably be a better man for the job (given more experience), while Lucas would do better in a traditional CM role. Still, he did a good job. Nothing there to pick on, give the boy a break.

 

Oh come on mate, what did he do? What did he do? Alonso gives the ball away a fair bit because he tries to make something happen but Lucas goes about five minutes without touching the ball and then when he does, lays it off five yards and run away.

 

I don't wanna get on the lads back because i'm sure he's doing his best but he shouldn't be picked. He isn't a holding player, he isn't box to box and he isn't an attacking midfielder (have you seen the majority of his shots?)

 

The assertion that he's like Fletcher (I know you didn't say that) is totally wrong as well IMO - I don't rate Fletcher at all but he's miles better than Lucas at the moment, streets ahead.

[Guest simon]

well im made up a crap performance but never the less a win i dont care how we win games as long as we keep it up we are top still and will be for a long time i hope next tottenham looking at them tonight it is going to be an extremely hard game maybe the hardest we have had this season i think we will win though i think torres will be on the bench for this game babel should get a chance upfront or on the right at least i am looking forward to this game

[Torvald Utne]

Shite performance primarily caused by the inclusion of Pennant and Lucas. We are blessed to have got three points. When will Rafa learn? Dont tinker with a winning team especially if it means involving useless donkeys like Pennant and Lucas. Its not rocket science - if it aint broke, dont try to fuckin fix it. We have a fantastic chance to pick up a lot of points from our next six or seven games but only if Rafa stops taking the piss.

 

 

if only i wasn't a cheapskate and had negging powers and you actually cared and i thought it would make the slightest bit of difference you'd be getting such a negging right now.

[Unrighteous]

We needed to win and won.

 

We needed to rest players and make up for injuries and we did.

 

We got the three points... Let's be happy.

[WhiskeyJar]

Seriously why do you bother?

 

It is obvious you neither want to think about the issues involved (rotating, tiredness, skill of squad etc) & actually sound like you want us to lose.

 

& this is not because i disagree with you - 4 changes may have been a mistake but others on here think that but are desperate for us to win & discuss it properly

 

Honestly, why bother?

 

I thought about having a go at him too, specifically on the "rafa taking the piss" part. But I know it will just steamroll us into having a silly argument. Rafa does not rotate any less than Wenger, Ferguson or Scolari. Fact is we dont have a big quality squad like the rest so when we do rest some of our star players we are always going to see some dip in quality. This year this dip has lessend somewhat but its still there.

 

To be fair I dont think Lucas had that bad of a game, but did the hard work that Masch usually does, so its good that we can rely on another player should anything happen to the Chief.

 

Pennant offered little or no threat at all and was dissapointing to say the least after he gained a few points against Wigan with some quality crosses. Tonight we saw the average Pennant instead of the speedy trickery right winger.

 

As far as the game goes, well its three points in the bag after a not so good performance and I do have to admit it was closer than I would have liked. However we still are on top of the table with a 3 point cushion and still unbeaten.

 

The points are what matter in the end of the day and I am sure thats what we all want....

[philyhamann]

Spurs away is hard to call, but we've now rested a few of our players and should have a full squad for that and Atletico. Our next home game is against WBA, which should be a stroll in the park.

[George Costanza]

what about it shocked you though Brownie?

 

 

Can't speak for Brownie but Kuyt up front on his own for starters. Rafa's tried it a few times and it has NEVER worked. Babel and Kuyt would have worked well IMO but then the balance of the midfield would have been wrong. Benayoun maybe even Aurelio (with Dossena at left back) instead of Lucas ont he left in a 4-4-2 possibly would have been better.

 

At the end of the day rafa is vindicated as he was able to give Masch, Riera and Keane a rest and we still won. Was a little too close for comfort though but a good sign we ground out another 3 points.

[bossy]

I negged the fucker (Baz), just because it was the first time I could since I last could (eh?). You can tell he's just waiting for a dfeat so it can all come spewing out.

 

We didn't play great but we won. Lots of games coming thick and fast and Rafa trusts his squad.

[Baz1969]

Seriously why do you bother?

 

It is obvious you don't want to think about the issues involved (rotating, tiredness, skill of squad etc) & actually sound like you want us to lose.

 

& this is not because i disagree with you - 4 changes may have been a mistake but others on here think that but are desperate for us to win & discuss it properly

 

Honestly, why bother?

 

I AM desperate for us to win every single match but it pisses me off when Rafa risks us dropping points by making unnecessary changes which weaken the team. If the likes of Pennant and Lucas were actually good enough to play for Liverpool and did not weaken the team then ok but clearly they are not up to it. It was a stupid team selection that could easily have backfired.

[Brownie]

what about it shocked you though Brownie?

 

for my money, it was about how i would have set the lineup for tonight. I dont really rate Pennant even though he will stretch our play out wide. With that said he went missing a bit but I don't know who else I would have started for what we needed.

 

We are playing 4 games in 11 days, so to think we would our "first choice" team out there each game doesnt make much sense to me

 

I posted this earlier in the thread (yesterday):

 

That pretty much sums it up right there.

 

I don't want us picking Hyypia tomorrow to negate Crouch, that IMO would be a return to worrying too much about the opposition as opposed to letting them worry about you.

 

We're top of the league, they should be shitting themselves at coming to Anfield. Seeing Hyypia in the team would give them a bit of a boost I reckon. That's not to say that Sami isn't up to it or anything (he's a legend), it's more to do with the mentality of it all.

 

I'd put Babel up front and give Keane a rest because he's obviously carrying an injury. That would be it for me, no other changes necessary. Go after them, score some goals and then bring off Gerrard et al.

 

Riera has hardly played a full game so he doesn't need a rest. Agger has hardly played, so doesn't need a rest. Mascherano looked tired a few games ago but looked back to his normal self against Chelsea.

 

It's a pointless debate mate, as it's been done over and over anyway. I don't have a problem with resting players, I just don't think there should have been four changes tonight, two maybe, but not four.

[Catch22]

I AM desperate for us to win every single match but it pisses me off when Rafa risks us dropping points by making unnecessary changes which weaken the team. If the likes of Pennant and Lucas were actually good enough to play for Liverpool and did not weaken the team then ok but clearly they are not up to it. It was a stupid team selection that could easily have backfired.

 

Ok fair enough, i apologise about the 1st jibe.

 

But we have to rest players & i don't think we haven't got the resources of the others.

Others on here disagree & you might be right but just please tone it down a bit- we are all Lfc fans

[Brownie]

Wise words. Don't agree on the Gerrard part though. I think he was vital. When Babel started to lack in terms of stamina and fell down Rafa started waving and Stevie stepped up a bit. He looked for the long and cutting pass (as seen on numerous occasions), he also tried to clear up space by making deep runs. That brought dynamics to the game, given a bit more time I think he would have scored or atleast assisted a goal.

 

The penalty was perfection aswell. Perfectly placed, and although the tremendous David James throwed himself in the right direction it wasn't enough to block the powerful shot. Alongside Hyypia, who didn't make one mistake, and Babel who was very lively, Gerrard's my MOM.

 

I totally agree about Gerrard. He wasn't amazing by any means but some of his passing was brilliant in the second half - especially the ball through to Benayoun, what a pass!

[Hazel Motes]

Oh come on mate, what did he do? What did he do? Alonso gives the ball away a fair bit because he tries to make something happen but Lucas goes about five minutes without touching the ball and then when he does, lays it off five yards and run away.

 

I don't wanna get on the lads back because i'm sure he's doing his best but he shouldn't be picked. He isn't a holding player, he isn't box to box and he isn't an attacking midfielder (have you seen the majority of his shots?)

 

The assertion that he's like Fletcher (I know you didn't say that) is totally wrong as well IMO - I don't rate Fletcher at all but he's miles better than Lucas at the moment, streets ahead.

 

In a game like this one, when we hold possession during 75% percent of the time there's not shitloads of work left for Lucas to do, not like for Masch vs. Chelsea.

 

The classic defensive midfielder needs to stay in position, stay available, stay disciplined. Back-up the holding midfielder (Alonso), chain the midfield and back four together and on occasions break down counter-attacks. He didn't fail on any of those tasks.

 

I certainly agree with you, mate; Lucas didn't shine. But then again, how could he? I also agree on the fact that he's still a raw talent, but as others have pointed out it has a lot to do with him not getting enough games. I witnessed his skills while at Gremio on numerous occasions. He was somewhat a different player then; speedy, fairless and creative. None of that is up for show today, agreed. Maybe he should be given some games in the reserves, while not playing in the PL? The step might be to big, mind, he's still a young one.

 

I, however, seems to be the only one who believes in this fine, highly motivated young lad - and that's a shame. The comparison to Fletcher (no, i certainly didn't draw that one up!) is completely out of order, by the way. Fletcher is a player who'd never manage to "star" in any other role than his current. If Fletcher is Steve Sidwell Lucas is a smalltime Stevie Gerrard - it's a question of dynamics.

 

I need to launch a "Backing Lucas"-campaign. My previous "Backing Kuyt" and "Backing Riera" (on which I was one of very few driving forces) didn't turn out that bad.

[CrouchieBoy]

Can't speak for Brownie but Kuyt up front on his own for starters. Rafa's tried it a few times and it has NEVER worked. Babel and Kuyt would have worked well IMO but then the balance of the midfield would have been wrong. Benayoun maybe even Aurelio (with Dossena at left back) instead of Lucas ont he left in a 4-4-2 possibly would have been better.

 

At the end of the day rafa is vindicated as he was able to give Masch, Riera and Keane a rest and we still won. Was a little too close for comfort though but a good sign we ground out another 3 points.

 

 

I can understand your point, i was just claiming i wasnt shocked when I saw the team.

 

I had thought we would have a go with 4-4-2 with a Pennant on the right and riera on the left. But alas, Rafa had other ideas

[Kevin D]

Our run of games is not particularly pleasant. Rafa saw this as one of the games we could afford to not be at full strength and still win , to his credit we did. Onwards and upwards to Spurs on saturday , although I've still to see the first half it was job done as far as I'm concerned.

 

Thanks a lot Dynamite for the stream.

[El Rojo]

I posted this earlier in the thread (yesterday):

 

 

 

Riera has hardly played a full game so he doesn't need a rest. Agger has hardly played, so doesn't need a rest. Mascherano looked tired a few games ago but looked back to his normal self against Chelsea.

 

It's a pointless debate mate, as it's been done over and over anyway. I don't have a problem with resting players, I just don't think there should have been four changes tonight, two maybe, but not four.

 

Riera had started the last several games before tonight and Agger is barely back after a 12-month lay out, so I think tonight was ideal match to rest those two.

 

The Mascherano one was risky for me, but only because Lucas is nowhere near as effective for us.

[RedKnight]

After seeing Riera recently, Pennant really doesn't look the like an option anymore. That could be because he hasn't played that much but he really is unable to beat a man anymore.