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AngryOfTuebrook

Elections 2021

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17 minutes ago, Jockey said:

If you don't know why they voted, you'll never get their vote. It isn't difficult. 

Depressingly, the response to this will probably be Labour HQ circling the wagons ever-tighter and excluding the working class activists up and down the country who have the best idea of what the voters in their communities need. CLPs actually going out and working with their local community (in between elections) and then having a say in policy and candidate choices all seems a bit too, y'know, democratic Socialist, and we can't be having that.

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11 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Depressingly, the response to this will probably be Labour HQ circling the wagons ever-tighter and excluding the working class activists up and down the country who have the best idea of what the voters in their communities need. CLPs actually going out and working with their local community (in between elections) and then having a say in policy and candidate choices all seems a bit too, y'know, democratic Socialist, and we can't be having that.

True - and I kind of agree. But, I don't think it is as simple as that - look at Liverpool what is relevant and important in Woolton, is not in Walton! Imagine trying to get consensus from Hartlepool, Cardiff, Truro, Bristol, London! Not all Labour supporters are working class, and not all Labour wards are working class. There does seem to be some evidence of an educational divide - which will fuck the Tories up moving forward. Labour may find that winning again is not about strongholds but small gains here and there throughout the country. 

 

There are so many falsehoods flying about at the moment. Not just the working class are thick and Tories, but also conversely - London is posh and middle-class! It fucking isn't - some of the most deprived areas in the country are in London. Labour is still strong in Cities where some of the worst poverty is. There are loads of Tories who will be looking at Hartlepool and the people of Hartlepool and be thinking 'why are my taxes going on their free port, steel industry etc'. 

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8 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Depressingly, the response to this will probably be Labour HQ circling the wagons ever-tighter and excluding the working class activists up and down the country who have the best idea of what the voters in their communities need. CLPs actually going out and working with their local community (in between elections) and then having a say in policy and candidate choices all seems a bit too, y'know, democratic Socialist, and we can't be having that.

It isnt what voters need that you need to satisfy, its what they want. What they aspire to.

 

They might need a better NHS e.g. but they want a better house or more money or less tax.

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I do think aspiration is important but I don't think less tax is one of them, nor necessarily more money. Jobs, homes and a future is important. Hard to see much of that in a lot of areas in the UK. 

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3 hours ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

Do any other political party hate their own base as much as Labour ? 

No. Be interesting if a modern day Anerurin Bevan popped up on here, white, working class, patriotic, anti eu etc. Probably get banned after three posts. 

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1 hour ago, Jockey said:

This is the same public that voted in 2017! 

 

Seriously - we need to get past this. You don't have to like it, but that isn't helpful. I know it is difficult - I'm sheltered in Liverpool. But, I'd like to win - and that isn't going to help you win! 

Last January/February saying 20k could die was considered scaremongering.

Just a question.

How many people have to die preventably under this government does it take in order for people to stop voting for them?

 

 

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1 hour ago, RedKnight said:

What I really want, what I need, the posh, highly educated socialists of the Canary telling me why a white van man in Hartlepool doesn't vote Labour. Because that will give me all of the answers to Labour's election failings, just not in the way they think they do.

Dunno.

The even more posh and elitist party of De Pheffel & Rees Mogg have convinced the working class that they're one of them so who knows.

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10 minutes ago, Dicko said:

Last January/February saying 20k could die was considered scaremongering.

Just a question.

How many people have to die preventably under this government does it take in order for people to stop voting for them?

 

 

Nobody died in 2019 and they still voted for them, Blair still got voted in after Iraq! How many deaths could have been prevented? 

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5 minutes ago, Dicko said:

Dunno.

The even more posh and elitist party of De Pheffel & Rees Mogg have convinced the working class that they're one of them so who knows.

Isn't that key? How come they have and Labour can't? 

 

How did Farage, a privately educated, stockbroker convince so many people he wasn't part of the establishment? As I mentioned earlier - the ease which 'London elite' gets thrown at Labour when a lot of those boroughs are deprived. Same as Liverpool. Labour have apparently abandoned the 'working class' - so, no working class exist in London, Liverpool, Newcastle, Leeds, Manchester, Sheffield, Bristol, Cardiff? 

 

Politics has never been about truths. It has always been about message. Shit but that is the way it is.

 

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15 minutes ago, Jockey said:

Nobody died in 2019 and they still voted for them, Blair still got voted in after Iraq! How many deaths could have been prevented? 

You think those cunts gave a fuck about muslim deaths?

The tories have just presided over one of the worst responses to the pandemic in the world, last year they said predicting 20k deaths was fatalistic & irresponsible.

Now seven times that number have died and they've made gains from the opposition.

So I'm wondering is there a set number that these dickheads think that's too much something has to change?

 

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53 minutes ago, John102 said:

Nye Bevan was anti EU?

Not the EU, but the previous iterations I think he was? Labour voted against joining the EEC in 1975.

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51 minutes ago, John102 said:

Nye Bevan was anti EU?

He was indeed, as was Foot, as was Benn, as was Atlee. Not this massively anti eu at all costs nonsense but all took a healthy sceptical veiw. 

 

https://labourheartlands.com/a-political-malaise-following-upon-the-failure-of-socialists-to-use-the-sovereign-power-of-their-parliaments-to-plan-their-economic-life/

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Jockey said:

Not the EU, but the previous iterations I think he was? Labour voted against joining the EEC in 1975.

Yep, not massively against but a healthy cynic I believe would be accurate.

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Just now, Dicko said:

You think those cunts gave a fuck about muslim deaths?

The tories have just presided over one of the responses to the pandemic in the world, last year they said predicting 20k deaths was fatalistic & irresponsible.

Now seven times that number have died and they've made gains from the opposition.

So I'm wondering is there a set number that these dickheads think that's too much something has to change?

 

 

I'm not sure what your point is? Other than looking to blame people for voting for them. No government has been blamed by their population for their pandemic response - Italy hasn't blamed there government, nor Spain, nor France, nor Austria. 

 

It is a pointless exercise referencing a comment on 20k deaths in March last year, we knew next to nothing about the virus - you can rally against the people as much as you like, but the blame for deaths is not being blamed on any leaders. I'm not sure why you insist on calling them 'dickheads' - we'll probably vote in a Labour Mayor and a Labour council when the last one stole fucking money from our poorest. 

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A second recession in 10 years, 150,000 dead via governmental negligence and incompetence, Brexit bungled beyond belief, a litany of scandals concerning huge swathes of public money going to political donors and it's still yet another Tory electoral wipe out. Worst thing is, it's not even surprising. I think most would have been shocked if Labour got anywhere near parity.

 

Modern Britain is basically just Florida with shit weather.

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5 minutes ago, Em City said:

A second recession in 10 years, 150,000 dead via governmental negligence and incompetence, Brexit bungled beyond belief, a litany of scandals concerning huge swathes of public money going to political donors and it's still yet another Tory electoral wipe out. Worst thing is, it's not even surprising. I think most would have been shocked if Labour got anywhere near parity.

 

Modern Britain is basically just Florida with shit weather.

150,000 didn't die because of government negligence! Honestly it isn't difficult - the hyperbole makes it worse. Their response was amongst the worst in the world - but it is nonsense to say that 150,000 died because of them. That suggests that if they were competent nobody would have died! 

 

We are not going beat these cunts like this. Cameron and Johnson are vacuous cunts and interested in themselves, it looks to me like people project what they want them to be! I keep reading how Starmer, or Labour need to stand for something - yet people don't seem to know what Johnsons stands for? He can't possibly be all things to all men - as with Trump, a lot of his promises contradict others. 

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3 minutes ago, Jockey said:

Isn't that key? How come they have and Labour can't? 

 

How did Farage, a privately educated, stockbroker convince so many people he wasn't part of the establishment? As I mentioned earlier - the ease which 'London elite' gets thrown at Labour when a lot of those boroughs are deprived. Same as Liverpool. Labour have apparently abandoned the 'working class' - so, no working class exist in London, Liverpool, Newcastle, Leeds, Manchester, Sheffield, Bristol, Cardiff? 

 

Politics has never been about truths. It has always been about message. Shit but that is the way it is.

 

Starmer went with the slogan that killed Jo Cox.

He then Union Jacked up.

It still hasn't worked.

Jeremy Corbyn had a 2017/19 manifesto that was gold and people really liked policy wise but couldn't vote for him personally.

 

So what to do start going a bit more whitey and less "woke"

Dangerous road that.

 

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1 minute ago, Dicko said:

Starmer went with the slogan that killed Jo Cox.

He then Union Jacked up.

It still hasn't worked.

Jeremy Corbyn had a 2017/19 manifesto that was gold and people really liked policy wise but couldn't vote for him personally.

 

So what to do start going a bit more whitey and less "woke"

Dangerous road that.

 

I'm not discussing it. Carry on calling people who disagree with you dickheads. That's proved successful. 

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4 hours ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

Yeah, that's guaranteed to get them all back on side. Keep up the good work

 

I'm not going to dig out the exact quotes because I'm too thick/lazy to learn how to properly work the search function, but I remember you having some pretty choice things to say about large swathes of the UK after the Brexit referendum result.

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1 minute ago, Em City said:

I'm not going to dig out the exact quotes because I'm too thick/lazy to learn how to properly work the search function, but I remember you having some pretty choice things to say about large swathes of the UK after the Brexit referendum result.

 

Yep, already admitted to it a few posts after that. It's definitely a self-defeating tactic though.

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1 hour ago, A Red said:

It isnt what voters need that you need to satisfy, its what they want. What they aspire to.

 

They might need a better NHS e.g. but they want a better house or more money or less tax.

I was thinking in terms of what the voters say they need (or want) as opposed to some paternalistic and misguided assumption of what's good for them.

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3 minutes ago, Em City said:

 

I'm not going to dig out the exact quotes because I'm too thick/lazy to learn how to properly work the search function, but I remember you having some pretty choice things to say about large swathes of the UK after the Brexit referendum result.

I think there is a tangible divide between educated and non-education in how they vote! I leads itself to insults - but, we need to get past it. Hopefully this is the start. 

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Just now, AngryOfTuebrook said:

I was thinking in terms of what the voters say they need (or want) as opposed to some paternalistic and misguided assumption of what's good for them.

Henry Ford said 'if I asked my customers what they wanted, they'd ask for a bigger horse'! 

 

I think a lot of people on the left have it wrong on patriotism - but, we've fought immigration on Farage's terms for years, and it has gotten us nowhere. You do have draw the line somewhere - I couldn't say where, and with what though! 

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