The Snooker

[Toxteth O'Grady]

Has to be said that ITV coverage has been brilliant this week and it's grand that Snooker is still on normal TV. The coberage and commentary has been excellent, I love listening to Alan McManus, he's absolutely top drawer, as is Ken Doherty. 

I can't wait for the Crucible to come round, should be fantastic this time round. While I love Snooker, I like watching brilliant Snooker even more, which is why I prefer the longer format game.

I'd like to see Roberston win another World Title, simply because he's been the outsanding player this season.

[Toxteth O'Grady]

It always amuses me when people do their best of, take for instance and as an example Snooker and place Alex Higgins and Jimmy White near or at the top of their ratings.

You ask the question, rightly, why would you put Jimmy White, with all his no world titles in the top 10 of all time?

And the answer usually is twofold....1) he was a real entertainer, took risks and played the game in the ;right way' and 2) he was a drunk and a coke head imagine how good he wudda been if he wasn't off his head most of the time?

Lets turn that around.

1) he was a real entertainer and took risks because he was pissed and coked up and 2) he was only that good because being off his head actually suited his psyche and improved his performance, let's ask the different and more difficult question....what if there had been more stringent drug testing back in the day and he had to play sober like EVERYONE ELSE, how shit to average would he have been? Same as Alex Higgins. OK, they were a massive draw and 'real characters', but they were drug cheats in that they needed stimulants to be at that level.

Had they been forced to play clean, just like everyone else around them, how average would they have been withiout drink and drugs?

Same as Tyson.

"Ah yeah, but for most of his career he was an alcoholic and full of drugs, just imagine what he could've been without them?"

Erm...NO. Why do you think he fought Tubbs and Douglas in Tokyo at the height of his career? 1) because nobody was interested in the fights and more importantly 2) he was properly out of shape and would've failed drugs tests anywhere in America or UK where a licence to fight is much more stringent.

Tyson COULD have made more of his career had he been clean, but, like Alex Higgins, he was a draw and a loose cannon because he needed those stimulants in his life and because of his personality.

Both Higgins and White were better players and bigger draws BECAUSE of their recklessness which came from drug abuse, had there been proper testing in those days, they wouldn't have played half as much or been half as good.

Tyson needed stimulants inside and outside the ring because of his personality, without them he might have lasted half the time but only been half as good.

Ultimately, the only factors that count are longevity and pots on the sideboard and from a moral and integrity point of view, wearing the crown with dignity, whether that be World Heavyweight Champion, or World Snooker Champion.

[Bjornebye]

9 hours ago, Toxteth O'Grady said:

It always amuses me when people do their best of, take for instance and as an example Snooker and place Alex Higgins and Jimmy White near or at the top of their ratings.

You ask the question, rightly, why would you put Jimmy White, with all his no world titles in the top 10 of all time?

And the answer usually is twofold....1) he was a real entertainer, took risks and played the game in the ;right way' and 2) he was a drunk and a coke head imagine how good he wudda been if he wasn't off his head most of the time?

Lets turn that around.

1) he was a real entertainer and took risks because he was pissed and coked up and 2) he was only that good because being off his head actually suited his psyche and improved his performance, let's ask the different and more difficult question....what if there had been more stringent drug testing back in the day and he had to play sober like EVERYONE ELSE, how shit to average would he have been? Same as Alex Higgins. OK, they were a massive draw and 'real characters', but they were drug cheats in that they needed stimulants to be at that level.

Had they been forced to play clean, just like everyone else around them, how average would they have been withiout drink and drugs?

Same as Tyson.

"Ah yeah, but for most of his career he was an alcoholic and full of drugs, just imagine what he could've been without them?"

Erm...NO. Why do you think he fought Tubbs and Douglas in Tokyo at the height of his career? 1) because nobody was interested in the fights and more importantly 2) he was properly out of shape and would've failed drugs tests anywhere in America or UK where a licence to fight is much more stringent.

Tyson COULD have made more of his career had he been clean, but, like Alex Higgins, he was a draw and a loose cannon because he needed those stimulants in his life and because of his personality.

Both Higgins and White were better players and bigger draws BECAUSE of their recklessness which came from drug abuse, had there been proper testing in those days, they wouldn't have played half as much or been half as good.

Tyson needed stimulants inside and outside the ring because of his personality, without them he might have lasted half the time but only been half as good.

Ultimately, the only factors that count are longevity and pots on the sideboard and from a moral and integrity point of view, wearing the crown with dignity, whether that be World Heavyweight Champion, or World Snooker Champion.

I doubt I’d have Tyson near my top 10. On par with Stephen Lee 

[Baltar]

12 hours ago, Bjornebye said:

Not sure about John being behind Hendry and Davis. Trump is a superb player but I see your point. White was entertaining but not top 10 for me. I'd have Ebdon over Jimmy tbh. 

Hendry is comfortably ahead of Higgins in my view. Nobody dominated snooker like Hendry did, it would be a disservice to not have him in the top 2 at least.

[Bjornebye]

1 minute ago, Baltar said:

Hendry is comfortably ahead of Higgins in my view. Nobody dominated snooker like Hendry did, it would be a disservice to not have him in the top 2 at least.

Nah, the standard now compared to when Hendry dominated is light years apart. One of the greats absolutely. 

[Baltar]

12 hours ago, Toxteth O'Grady said:

It always amuses me when people do their best of, take for instance and as an example Snooker and place Alex Higgins and Jimmy White near or at the top of their ratings.

You ask the question, rightly, why would you put Jimmy White, with all his no world titles in the top 10 of all time?

And the answer usually is twofold....1) he was a real entertainer, took risks and played the game in the ;right way' and 2) he was a drunk and a coke head imagine how good he wudda been if he wasn't off his head most of the time?

Lets turn that around.

1) he was a real entertainer and took risks because he was pissed and coked up and 2) he was only that good because being off his head actually suited his psyche and improved his performance, let's ask the different and more difficult question....what if there had been more stringent drug testing back in the day and he had to play sober like EVERYONE ELSE, how shit to average would he have been? Same as Alex Higgins. OK, they were a massive draw and 'real characters', but they were drug cheats in that they needed stimulants to be at that level.

Had they been forced to play clean, just like everyone else around them, how average would they have been withiout drink and drugs?

Same as Tyson.

"Ah yeah, but for most of his career he was an alcoholic and full of drugs, just imagine what he could've been without them?"

Erm...NO. Why do you think he fought Tubbs and Douglas in Tokyo at the height of his career? 1) because nobody was interested in the fights and more importantly 2) he was properly out of shape and would've failed drugs tests anywhere in America or UK where a licence to fight is much more stringent.

Tyson COULD have made more of his career had he been clean, but, like Alex Higgins, he was a draw and a loose cannon because he needed those stimulants in his life and because of his personality.

Both Higgins and White were better players and bigger draws BECAUSE of their recklessness which came from drug abuse, had there been proper testing in those days, they wouldn't have played half as much or been half as good.

Tyson needed stimulants inside and outside the ring because of his personality, without them he might have lasted half the time but only been half as good.

Ultimately, the only factors that count are longevity and pots on the sideboard and from a moral and integrity point of view, wearing the crown with dignity, whether that be World Heavyweight Champion, or World Snooker Champion.

I don't think drugs enhances a snooker players' performance. It's not like they need to be stronger, faster, have more stamina etc. which is why track and field athletes are always caught taking performance-enhancing drugs. Hell, if anything all that drink and drugs should have done the opposite to snooker players who rely on concentration and seeing things clearly.

[Baltar]

2 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Nah, the standard now compared to when Hendry dominated is light years apart. One of the greats absolutely. 

Hendry dominated the 90s, Higgins, Ronnie and co were around in those days (before their peak of course) and Hendry kept them all at bay while destroying the established top players of that era. I don't know of any other player that would always turn up to tournaments as the overwhelming favourite, and would almost always ended up winning them. He was a machine in his prime.

[Bjornebye]

6 minutes ago, Baltar said:

Hendry dominated the 90s, Higgins, Ronnie and co were around in those days (before their peak of course) and Hendry kept them all at bay while destroying the established top players of that era. I don't know of any other player that would always turn up to tournaments as the overwhelming favourite, and would almost always ended up winning them. He was a machine in his prime.

I know he was mate but either Ronnie or John would have stopped that domination. Like they eventually did. 

[John102]

Lovely total clearance by the Jester from Leicester. Hopefully he can go all the way again.

[Creator Supreme]

2 hours ago, John102 said:

Lovely total clearance by the Jester from Leicester. Hopefully he can go all the way again.

Sarcasm?

[niallers]

Selby the player is a boring, hateful cunt. I'd rather watch cliff thorburn. Selby the pundit or panelist seems like a sound bloke. Super talented but a fucking robot with the worst nickname in snooker. At least Steve interesting Davis was tongue in cheek. 

Also,  Ronnie looks like he's interested at the moment.  3.0 down but won the next 6. We should be guaranteed a bit of excitement for a few more days yet. 

 

[John102]

18 hours ago, Creator Supreme said:

Sarcasm?

Yes, though i don't actually mind watching him, unlike some in here, who hate him.

[Bjornebye]

The worlds are in full swing. Parrot and Davies just talking about Matthew Stevens as one of the best never to win the Worlds. 

 

Top 5 for me:

 

5. Maguire

4. Wilson

3. Hunter

2. Stevens

1. White 

[Remmie]

Yeah oobviously Jimmy is number 1 by a mile but yeah Stevens was boss about 25 years ago. Maybe Ding would be a shout and the likes of Ali Carter/Mark Allen (even if they are bellends).

 

Worst to win would have to be Graeme Dott, though he played very well that year he won it. I'm tempted to also mention Ken Doherty but I think that might be my dislike of him clouding my judgement. Parrott didn't win much else did he?

[Bjornebye]

2 minutes ago, Remmie said:

Yeah oobviously Jimmy is number 1 by a mile but yeah Stevens was boss about 25 years ago. Maybe Ding would be a shout and the likes of Ali Carter/Mark Allen (even if they are bellends).

 

Worst to win would have to be Graeme Dott, though he played very well that year he won it. I'm tempted to also mention Ken Doherty but I think that might be my dislike of him clouding my judgement. Parrott didn't win much else did he?

Shit, forgot about Ding. He's probably number 2 although he's right off the boil the last few years. 

 

I think Dott made a final a couple of years after winning it didn't he? Bingham was a bigger shock IMO. Doherty was a very good player late 90's, early 00's. Parrot won a UK championship as well I think. 

[KMD7]

6 minutes ago, Remmie said:

Yeah oobviously Jimmy is number 1 by a mile but yeah Stevens was boss about 25 years ago. Maybe Ding would be a shout and the likes of Ali Carter/Mark Allen (even if they are bellends).

 

Worst to win would have to be Graeme Dott, though he played very well that year he won it. I'm tempted to also mention Ken Doherty but I think that might be my dislike of him clouding my judgement. Parrott didn't win much else did he?

Parrot won a UK Championship near or around the same time he won the Worlds I think.

[Bjornebye]

Just now, KMD7 said:

Parrot won a UK Championship near or around the same time he won the Worlds I think.

Lost a worlds final to Davis as well. 

[KMD7]

Just now, Bjornebye said:

Lost a worlds final to Davies as well. 

That's right Stig, got mauled in that one. Had to check out the year. He was really good for a 5 -6 year period.

[Bjornebye]

2 minutes ago, KMD7 said:

That's right Stig, got mauled in that one. Had to check out the year. He was really good for a 5 -6 year period.

Yeah not a bad record like. Awful battering off Davis though. To come back and win it a couple of years later takes some balls. 

[Remmie]

Yeah but he's an Ev*rtonian

 

As for Bingham I considered him but didn't mention him as he has wwon 6 ranking titles and I forgot his name! Dott has only won 2.

 

Both decent players and anyone who wins the whole thing is going to be excellent so it is harsh saying worst. Who do you think the worst was? And just because he was a boring fucker I don't think Peter Ebdon is by any means.

[bigthrusts]

Some game between Wilson and Ding here. 

[Bjornebye]

Ding out early again. Well done Wilson. 

[Bjornebye]

Brecel really struggling, 8:3 down. After his recent comments many within the sport will be happy to see him knocked out in the first round. 

 

 

[bigthrusts]

Mark Williams is quite good at snooker. 

[niallers]

87 min frame of snooker between yan and the boring cunt. He's finally living up to his game type. Longest frame in crucible history, cliff thorburn must be sickened. 12.10 to yan who was 11.7 up