Liverpool 0 Southampton 1 (Jan 25 2017)

[s(k)aturation]

I think in football generally and especially in England, the home of the ignorant, there's a backlash against tika taka - possession football is now frown upon even though a team might have 70-80% of the game trying to tactically open up their opponents - like we did last night and on Saturday.  The fact we couldn't do it and stupidly left ourselves exposed (that's when you need a top class holding player like Carvalho) made us look "poor" but actually , over  the legs, we made most of the play.

 

Football as a sport will become pointless and tedious to watch if we continue to exert the virtues of Mourinho's teams, Burnley, Swansea and fucking boring Southampton.

 

 

You're enjoying Liverpool's football.

Good for you.

[Paco]

Coutinho missed a very good chance as well.

 

Looking for positives in the sturridge misses. At least he was in great positions for both of them so he still has that.

[razor]

Damn right lunacy to start Sturridge last night. I'd also argue Moreno should have started instead of Alexander Arnold.

 

Klopp has just lost the plot

 

The very epitome of irony.

[boots123]

Coutinho missed a very good chance as well.

 

Looking for positives in the sturridge misses. At least he was in great positions for both of them so he still has that.

the simple fact is liverpool did not want to score and risk extra time, hence endless passes going no where near soton goal area, then maybe find themselves in a final against Utd, which could again have gone to e/t which sure as hell wouldn't bode well for our 4th place chances, as opposed to gaining the mickey mouse cup, Utd tried hard enough to get out of it, but hull were shite, now they are in the same position we would have been in, Klopp kidded the balls off maureen

[William_Ulsterman]

I was really angry with Sturridge at the time for the misses but in all honesty it's because the other teams have worked us out. We are easier to read then 'The Hungry Caterpillar'. The only way round a packed defense/midfield is over the top to a big hit-man and we don't have one of those anymore. It works for everyone else when they aren't hitting us on the break.

[Total Longo]

That team never picked itself. Damn right lunacy to start Sturridge last night. I'd also argue Moreno should have started instead of Alexander Arnold.

 

Klopp has just lost the plot

 

Ridiculous. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

 

Wijnaldum for Can would have been the only change i'd have made before the game. Both Sturridge and Origi looked short of confidence, but it was a game we needed goals in and frankly i'd back a fit Sturridge to score ahead of Origi all day long. So picking one of them in Mane's absence was a no-brainer, even more so if it pushed Lallana back into midfield, where he is so much more effective, usually. If Sturridge had scored those two chances would it have been lunacy then?  

 

Klopp isnt infallible, he makes plenty of mistakes but to say he's lost the plot is ridiculous. Clearly there are problems, but right now we're still in the top 4, at the start of the season i'd have taken being where we are now as progress from last season's dismal 8th.  

[eeyore]

Ridiculous. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

 

Wijnaldum for Can would have been the only change i'd have made before the game. Both Sturridge and Origi looked short of confidence, but it was a game we needed goals in and frankly i'd back a fit Sturridge to score ahead of Origi all day long. So picking one of them in Mane's absence was a no-brainer, even more so if it pushed Lallana back into midfield, where he is so much more effective, usually. If Sturridge had scored those two chances would it have been lunacy then?

 

Klopp isnt infallible, he makes plenty of mistakes but to say he's lost the plot is ridiculous. Clearly there are problems, but right now we're still in the top 4, at the start of the season i'd have taken being where we are now as progress from last season's dismal 8th.

Sturridge didn't score those two chances though did he?

 

And neither did anyone else in the team look like scoring because he completely nullifies everyone else.

 

I called it the minute the line up was announced on the MF so no it wasn't hindsight.

[stringvest]

Sturridge didn't score those two chances though did he?

 

And neither did anyone else in the team look like scoring because he completely nullifies everyone else.

 

I called it the minute the line up was announced on the MF so no it wasn't hindsight.

 

 

Coutinho missed an easy chance, and that had absolutely nothing to do with Sturridge.  

 

we all know Sturridge had a mare, but he wasn't the only one.  And it wasn't all down to him.

 

Can and Henderson as a two strikes fear into no-one apart from Liverpool supporters.

[eeyore]

Coutinho missed an easy chance, and that had absolutely nothing to do with Sturridge.

It was fucking dumb to start Sturridge and you know it. You just wanna pile in to deflect away from lover boys shit displays

[stringvest]

It was fucking dumb to start Sturridge and you know it. You just wanna pile in to deflect away from lover boys shit displays

 

 

Listen to yourself Mark.  

 

I didn't want to start Sturridge, and I didn't want to start with that midfield.  As far as I'm concerned Sturridge is finished, but he is not the biggest problem we have.  

[Total Longo]

"lover boy" 

 

Jesus....

[eeyore]

Listen to yourself Mark.

 

I didn't want to start Sturridge, and I didn't want to start with that midfield. As far as I'm concerned Sturridge is finished, but he is not the biggest problem we have.

At the moment yeah this last month with Sturridge starting we've played four games against Plymouth and Southampton (who are in shocking form) we have scored one goal.

 

The only games we've played relatively well in are the city and united games where he didn't get a single fucking minute of action.

 

So I'd say yeah at the moment he is killing us.

[Bobby Hundreds]

Firmino has to be in the middle. I'd even put ojo where mane usually plays. Sturridge is a sub, see if his fresh legs can match tired ones. He's still a talented footballer but his turn of pace has gone. I think it's more a mental issue than physical. Currently it weakens the side him playing much like can and henderson together does.

[Paco]

 

 

But Reds legend Rush believes the goals will come for the 27-year-old as long as he continues to get into the right positions.

 

“If you lose confidence and you stop getting in them positions, then there’s a problem,” said Rush, whose incredible 346 goals make him Liverpool’s greatest goalscorer.

 

“That’s why there’s mental toughness that’s needed now to still get in those areas. It doesn’t matter if you miss 10, you’re doing something right because you’re in that positions.

 

“The worst things I’ve seen with strikers is they’ll do it twice (miss) and they won’t get in that position again, they shy away from that.

[lebron]

Listen to yourself Mark.  

 

I didn't want to start Sturridge, and I didn't want to start with that midfield.  As far as I'm concerned Sturridge is finished, but he is not the biggest problem we have.  

 

I think starting Sturridge IS our biggest problem, even bigger than that midfield (and I'm not loving that either). With the way we want to play (press, win the ball high up), he's completely useless. Origi isn't much better in this regard, but he atleast has the ability to get past a man. What we're missing now that was so much better in the start of the season are people willing to take a man on (all over the pitch). With Mane gone, Coutinho (and Lallana to a lesser extent) out of form, we have only Firmino who does this regularly in games now, and he's not particularly succesful at it, at least not out wide. That's the second part of it being wrong (starting Sturridge); in Mane's absence, Firmino remains our most likely source of goals, he's also much better than Sturridge at reading when to press and not.

 

I know he's everyone's pet hate, but I can't understand not starting Moreno now either, as for all his flaws, he brings that energy and pace to give Coutinho someone to pass the ball in front of (not to feet) down the flanks. Granted, he might not hit every cross, but he'd definitely give us a spark at the moment. I appreciate Milner's efforts, but he's looking a bit leggy now, in perhaps the most physically demanding role in the team.

 

Our best line-up without Mane right now would for me be;

 

-----------------------------------Mignolet/Karius*--------------------------------

 

--------Clyne-----------Matip----------Lovren/Klavan**---------Moreno------

 

--------------------------------------Henderson-----------------------------------

 

------------------------Lallana---------------------Wijnaldum---------------------

 

---------Origi***---------------------------Firmino---------------------Coutinho------

 

 

* I don't really care that much, both will cause problems in the lorun, it seems. Mignolet by saving virtually nothing, Karius by flapping in the box. I'd consider putting Karius in goal for the rest of the season, if only to see what he's capable of once he's had some time to adjust. We know what Mignolet's going to do for us by now, Karius might still improve.

 

** Same as the keeper situation, but until we get a great, new CB (or Gomez develops into one), I'd give the nod to Klavan. Seems a bit more composed than Lovren. Neither are going to have consistent, great seasons for us unfortunately.

 

*** If I thought Klopp was anywhere near considering Ojo's defensive work to be adequate, he'd be my Mane replacement. I think his non-inclusion answers that question, unfortunately. Origi is the best of a bad bunch then (esp as a winger), and might pose a bit of a headache for the opposing fullback. If we had had anyone quick on the other side, I'd actually have placed Milner here to give us a bit of direct play/overlapping/crossing from his preferred side. A front three of Millner, Firmino and Coutinho would be too slow though...

 

To sum it up; No more Can/Henderson, and definitely no Sturridge. How to use Milner is another conundrum. If Henderson was given some time off, I think I'd rather see Milner in there. Henderson/Milner together is as bad as Henderson/Can though.

 

Eurrghh, where did all the optimism go?

[ZonkoVille77]

Lebron, I'll start with that line up at every possible opportunity, except the Moreno selection. Milner has been our best player on the pitch, and he's the only one with the balls to put a peno away. Hendo on pens? fuck no. Origi on pens? fuck no. Bobby or Phil? no and no.

[lebron]

Lebron, I'll start with that line up at every possible opportunity, except the Moreno selection. Milner has been our best player on the pitch, and he's the only one with the balls to put a peno away. Hendo on pens? fuck no. Origi on pens? fuck no. Bobby or Phil? no and no.

 

I might just have a soft spot for Moreno, I think his pace and energy are such massive assets that I'd persist with him despite his other weaknesses. I think Milner (and Clyne) have been getting away with stuff that Moreno would have been absolutely slaughtered for (on here and in the stands).

 

I even started a thread last year where I said I loved our fullbacks (at the time Moreno and Clyne), as they were (among other things) pivotal to us not looking like conceding goals from opposition breaks (and our own corners!). He might look like a clown, and some of his tackling attempts are...eh...peculiar, but last season (and this) when he played, he consistently hindered opposition breakaways (which are now becoming nearly as dangerous as in Rodgers' tenure). Moreno's biggest fault in many people's eyes is his positioning, which I've repeatedly put on the system we're playing/Klopp's instructions. Alexander-Arnold is now doing the same thing on the other side, it's only when we squander the ball (like Henderson did Tuesday) this becomes an issue. Still, the few times it happens, I'd much rather have Moreno in said position than Milner, as he's not winning a footrace with anyone (except Sturridge).

 

I agree Milner has been doing fine (except his corners, which are terrible), it's just that we lack pace throughout the team. I'd work very hard to get those with it into our team; Origi, Ojo, Moreno. I'd like to have Milner in the team as well, and neither Henderson, Wijnaldum or Can could have had any complaints with being omitted on recent form. Pace (and more importantly) acceleration-wise, we are now;

 

 

Quick-----------Quickish----------Slow(ish)--------Slow  with Clyne-Matip-Lovren/Klavan-Milner

 

-----------Quickish----Quickish---Slow------     with Lallana, Henderson, Can

 

------Quickish-----------Slow-------Quickish     with Firmino-Sturridge-Coutinho

 

Only Clyne in our team atm can claim to be a really quick player, some have decent acceleration (Lallana, Coutinho, Firmino), others are relatively fast when they get going

(Matip, Henderson, Firmino). No-one consistently make dangerous runs behind or between the lines, or take on people with any great success atm, and it's killing us. 

[Section_31]

The problem under Klopp is similar to what it was under Rodgers, although not as bad, I.e that you can't polish a turd.

 

Players like Henderson etc can perform well in spells but they have to be at the races all the time otherwise they'll get eclipsed. I remember Hyppia dominating Leeds once with the flu. Class will out and we just don't have enough of it, in the end you can only ride that combination of luck and graft for so long.

[Paco]

The problem under Klopp is similar to what it was under Rodgers, although not as bad, I.e that you can't polish a turd.

 

Players like Henderson etc can perform well in spells but they have to be at the races all the time otherwise they'll get eclipsed. I remember Hyppia dominating Leeds once with the flu. Class will out and we just don't have enough of it, in the end you can only ride that combination of luck and graft for so long.

Or try a bona fide dm.

 

You can see more and more Milner getting caught up the field like Moreno used to and the gaps at the back are really costing us now.

[SammyAftershave]

Coutinho missed an easy chance, and that had absolutely nothing to do with Sturridge.  

 

we all know Sturridge had a mare, but he wasn't the only one.  And it wasn't all down to him.

 

Can and Henderson as a two strikes fear into no-one apart from Liverpool supporters.

 

Ain't that the truth. Horizontal hold.

[3 Stacks]

The attacking issues can be solved by getting Mane back and by keeping Sturridge on the bench. Otherwise, the midfield, defence and keeping situations are still borderline disastrous. 

 

I think Karius will step up eventually and solve the keeping situation, but for right now there's only so much we can achieve with gimps like Mignolet, Lovren and Klavan making mistakes every week. Only an upgrade in personnel will change that, Imo.

 

The regular starting midfield is decent, but the fat will also need to be trimmed in the summer if we're to really sustain success. Henderson and Wijnaldum need to be bench players and we need a new creative midfielder and holding player.

[Paco]

The attacking issues can be solved by getting Mane back and by keeping Sturridge on the bench. Otherwise, the midfield, defence and keeping situations are still borderline disastrous.

 

I think Karius will step up eventually and solve the keeping situation, but for right now there's only so much we can achieve with gimps like Mignolet, Lovren and Klavan making mistakes every week. Only an upgrade in personnel will change that, Imo.

 

The regular starting midfield is decent, but the fat will also need to be trimmed in the summer if we're to really sustain success. Henderson and Wijnaldum need to be bench players and we need a new creative midfielder and holding player.

Don't hold your breath. We might get a creative midfielder but holding midfielder seems to be completely foreign to this club.

[Stickman]

The attacking issues can be solved by getting Mane back and by keeping Sturridge on the bench. Otherwise, the midfield, defence and keeping situations are still borderline disastrous. 

 

I think Karius will step up eventually and solve the keeping situation, but for right now there's only so much we can achieve with gimps like Mignolet, Lovren and Klavan making mistakes every week. Only an upgrade in personnel will change that, Imo.

 

The regular starting midfield is decent, but the fat will also need to be trimmed in the summer if we're to really sustain success. Henderson and Wijnaldum need to be bench players and we need a new creative midfielder and holding player.

Don't expect Mane to come back and that will be the miracle cure to all our woes, it's not like he's been oh holiday or living it up,he's been playing for his country in their biggest tournament. So similar to players that play in the World Cup he's bound to come back jaded and mentally fucked.

I bet you won't see the best of a Mane again till next season.

[jimmycase]

Don't expect Mane to come back and that will be the miracle cure to all our woes, it's not like he's been oh holiday or living it up,he's been playing for his country in their biggest tournament. So similar to players that play in the World Cup he's bound to come back jaded and mentally fucked.

I bet you won't see the best of a Mane again till next season.

 

Tend to agree (not that I think Mane missing is the reason we've been poor). He'll likely be as fucked as the rest of our players if not more. Too many people thinking Mane returns and we're back to form.

[m0e]

Liverpool 16/17 - Mane = Liverpool 15/16

 

And I ain't no Rocket Surgeon!