Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[njackets]

Maybe if it stopped us soending billions dropping bombs on the middle east and following America into every filucking cinflict going it would have been a good thing. How many billions did we spend dropping bombs in Syria in the past couple of years and exactly what did it achieve?

 

We can find money for bombs

We can find money for trident

 

But wont put amy money into healthcare,schools(unless they are free schools),social housing

 

Its almost like the government has an agenda against keeping anything like social care and wants to privatised everything and keep there arms manufacturing buddies doing well

There's no guarantees in the future once the EU has its own Military it won't go doing the same is there?

[njackets]

My point is, do you? You throw 'national security' out as an advantage when we've hardly been at war or involved in any threats due to our inclusion in the EU. You have failed to mention a single example as to how we would be 'safer' and what we would be safer from. That's because the Daily Heil didn't go into detail, did it?

Where was you to pull up the remainers who made the original point about us being safer in the EU, safer from what?

 

This debate has been had in this thread at least 3 times, open border terrorism, Russia, rocking the boat with NATO not to mention diluting and weakening our own Military by having decisions made for them in Brussels.

 

Can you brief me up on how being a member of the EU has stopped us 'hardly being at war or involved in any threats'

[njackets]

Seeing as NJackets likes sharing good news brexit stories, here's another.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39261974

Sorry not reading that, not when there's a chance a Neo Nazi could of read and and agreed with it!

[njackets]

I'm talking war between about Member States.

EU or no EU there was fuck all chance we'd have been at war with any member state country and I'm sure if you're honest you'd agree.

[moof]

EU or no EU there was fuck all chance we'd have been at war with any member state country and I'm sure if you're honest you'd agree.

Yes, because there's no precedent for that, is there?

[cloggypop]

njackets has a survival cupboard full of beans and corned beef.

 

He hangs around Callans at the weekend.

[njackets]

Yes, because there's no precedent for that, is there?

Not since the formation of NATO no.

[Plev]

Sorry not reading that, not when there's a chance a Neo Nazi could of read and and agreed with it!

Nice deflection technique, you massive whopper.

[Rick Sanchez C-137]

Where was you to pull up the remainers who made the original point about us being safer in the EU, safer from what? (1)

 

This debate has been had in this thread at least 3 times, open border terrorism, Russia, rocking the boat with NATO not to mention diluting and weakening our own Military by having decisions made for them in Brussels. (2)

 

Can you brief me up on how being a member of the EU has stopped us 'hardly being at war or involved in any threats' (3)

 

1) What? I wasn't replying to 'remainers', I was asking YOU who was making a vague claim that we'd be 'safer'.

 

2) Rather than have military decisions made for us by America? Which one do you honestly think has more sway on our military? EU of America?

 

3) Again, I didn't make such claims, I was asking you for any sort of reason we'd be safer out of it, and buddying up to 'Murica.

[clangers]

EU or no EU there was fuck all chance we'd have been at war with any member state country and I'm sure if you're honest you'd agree.

 

Given the last 1,000 years of European history that's a bit of an assumption to make. The EU or formerly EC or ECC mandate was to ensure closer ties between member states to ensure that centuries of conflict could be avoided. It's an over simplification to say that the last seventy years of peace are purely down to the EU. Given that we've had major conflicts in the Balkans shows that it hasn't been entirely successful. It's equally fair to suggest that the cold war had as much influence on peace in Europe as the EU. However it's entirely reasonable to suggest that the EU has played a significant role in helping to avoid traditional conflicts between member states.

[Lee909]

There's no guarantees in the future once the EU has its own Military it won't go doing the same is there?

Well most of them managed to avoid getting pulled into the last few haven't they

[Lee909]

Not since the formation of NATO no.

Yeah cause the league of nstions worked well

[Moctezuma]

It would be interesting to find out what percentage of the population feel represented right now with what is happening on a political level. In terms of the number of people who wanted to be in a situation where there is a potentiality that we may only be interacting with the E.U. via WTO rules plus directly competing with them through implementing a lower tax and spend economy and have a second Scottish independence referendum coming up.

 

Though that is perhaps a slightly pessimistic way of looking at it. Also predictably a good chunk of the press seem to be happy with that situation.

[A Red]

The lack of wars in western europe in the last 70 years is fuck all to do with the EU and everything to do with democracy. Democratic countries tend not to go to war with each other.

[Rico1304]

The lack of wars in western europe in the last 70 years is fuck all to do with the EU and everything to do with democracy. Democratic countries tend not to go to war with each other.

Isn't being a democracy a prerequisite of joining?

[A Red]

Isn't being a democracy a prerequisite of joining?

Yes it is

[AngryOfTuebrook]

EU or no EU there was fuck all chance we'd have been at war with any member state country and I'm sure if you're honest you'd agree.

The UK is not the only Member State. Other countries exist.

 

France and Germany, for example, had been to war with each other 3 times in 70 years. Since they join the ECSC, war between them has been practically impossible. This unprecedented sustained period of peace has fostered decades of increasing prosperity and respect for human rights; these, in turn, have made the prospect of war even more remote.

 

Outside the EU, we've seen situations of long term political stability (albeit without the same prosperity or human rights) spiral rapidly into war in the Balkans, in Georgia, in Ukraine, etc. So you see why I don't share your glee at the prospect of the unravelling of the EU.

[stringvest]

The lack of wars in western europe in the last 70 years is fuck all to do with the EU and everything to do with democracy. Democratic countries tend not to go to war with each other.

 

 

tell that to France and Germany.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

But that's just about it, considering plans for an EU Army are in motion, I'd argue we'd be much safer as a country being out the EU.

You say you'd argue that.

 

We're still waiting for the arguments.

 

Give us any halfway plausible justification for the claim that the UK would be safer outside the EU.

[A Red]

tell that to France and Germany.

Whats the point? My mrs wont listen to me, theres no chance France & Germany will.

[A Red]

 

Give us any halfway plausible justification for the claim that the UK would be safer outside the EU.

I would argue its no less safer -

 

1. As i said earlier democracies tend not to fight each other

2. We are still part of NATO as are most other EU countries (France being one exception)

 

Leaving the EU, I believe has no bearing on being militarily safer or stronger

[magicrat]

I would argue its no less safer -

 

1. As i said earlier democracies tend not to fight each other

2. We are still part of NATO as are most other EU countries (France being one exception)

 

Leaving the EU, I believe has no bearing on being militarily safer or stronger

 

Disagree totally. Leaving the EU will be very acrimonious and it's naive to think that will not spill over into arguments over NATO funding and foreign policy, Russia is very obviously employing a divide and rule policy, Turkey seems to lining itself up with Moscow as Erdogan seeks to create a Putin style presidency .  Have little doubt this extraordinary spat with the Dutch if not Russian in origin certainly has Moscow fingerprints all over it . Things are changing rapidly in the West and now is not the time to break ranks with our European allies, 

[Rick Sanchez C-137]

Give us any halfway plausible justification for the claim that the UK would be safer outside the EU.

 

His argument hinges on, surprise surprise:

 

 

 

open border terrorism

[cloggypop]

Dutch and Russian relations haven't been good in the last few years and MH17 getting shot down certainly didn't help. Putin's daughter fled Amsterdam and there were some bizarre diplomatic incidents including break ins and assault.

 

The Dutch do have massive trade links with both Turkey and Russia though.

[A Red]

Disagree totally. Leaving the EU will be very acrimonious and it's naive to think that will not spill over into arguments over NATO funding and foreign policy, Russia is very obviously employing a divide and rule policy, Turkey seems to lining itself up with Moscow as Erdogan seeks to create a Putin style presidency .  Have little doubt this extraordinary spat with the Dutch if not Russian in origin certainly has Moscow fingerprints all over it . Things are changing rapidly in the West and now is not the time to break ranks with our European allies, 

They are our allies via NATO, they're our trading partners via the EU. The arguments over NATO funding have nothing to do whether we are in or out of the EU, funding of NATO is down to individual nations not the EU.

 

Whatever issues there are with Russia, being in or out of the EU makes no difference.