Rafa on sky sports

[corro]

I have not said anything about his achievments, I`m more than happy with them even if I would have been more happy had he not made huge tactical mistake in Athens something that was the only reason we dont have 6 European Cups.

 

I think claiming he was some kind of genius when every manager in the top 4 in England had relative great success and all reached the final in the same period is a bit rose tintyed and deluded though.

 

He did great, so did the rest of the managers from the PL and for me the main reason is obvious and it was not that Rafa had some special skill and understanding when it came to European football.

I agree with you regards the Athens final but you have a very selective memory bringing that up without mentioning his achievements before and after

You sound like you just don't like the man for whatever reason, but be fair he fitted with us by the fact that he was a well respected manager in charge of a well respected club and in europe he was very very good

Anfield is probably the main reason we were so feared as much as anything else and that has always been the case.(give or take a few)

Not many refs point to the penalty spot and give a corner (Roma 2001)

[king luis]

We started it?

 

Thats some twisted logic there, Chelsea started it, they kept on doing in and they continued with it long after we finished our purple patch.

 

03/04: semi final

04/05: semi final

05/06: beaten by the winners in the last 16

06/07: semi final

07/08: final

08/09: semi final

09/10: beaten by the winners in the last 16

 

We can mock them all we like for never having won it, but the results and consistency they have showed in Europe the last 8 seasons have been nothing but amazing.

 

They have done this with 6 different managers in charge as well and that tells me that our results in Europe during the same period is not really all down to the manager and his amazing abilities on the European stage, but because the English clubs had more money and because of that could attract better players compared to a few other leagues who had dominated in Europe in earlier periods.

 

The fact managers like Ferguson and Wenger also all of a sudden had the habit of reaching finals, semi and quarter finals compared to earlier when it looked like they could not even buy a place in the semi final also bear strong evidence of this.

 

Rafa is decent in Europe, he got some really good results mostly because he went against his own ideas and attacked teams from the off and some of the teams he meet were more spent forces than actual European giants at the time.

 

People talk about beating Real Madrid as some kind of massive achievment, this is the same Real team who have not gone past the last 16 for the last 7 seasons prior to this one.

 

Some perspective would be nice, thats all.

 

yes perspective would be nice, they havent ever won it and when they had the chance they bottled it and they're "leader" let them down.....

 

beating a club of madrids stature home and away is a massive achievement, if you dont understand that your watching the wrong sport.

 

if chelsea were so great and the real force in eurpe as your implying....why couldnt they beat us over two legs?

 

we had some pretty shit players aswell i might add.....all they're millions, supposidly the greatest modern day manager at the helm.....and they couldnt beat a team with biscan, djimi traore, meller, pongolle?

 

these guys have winners medals.....chelsea's players dont.

 

rafa has nothing to do with that......right? :whatever:

 

Chelsea have got a much better record in Europe than us.

 

lol

 

 

In what way? In the way that winning nothing is better than winning something?

 

lol exactly.....dont worry mate, we will put these idiots in they're places soon enough.

 

1000's of posts doesnt mean you know alot about the game.....as we can se from many many replies.

 

How many trophies have they won in Europe? One?

 

again exactly.....

 

how fucking dumb can people get on here.....

 

lets find out ;)

 

This from the man who used Mourinho's semi finals as a stick to beat Rafa with.

 

When it comes to Lucas or the European Cup, you're priceless.

 

Some perspective would indeed be nice I'd say.

 

In 2005 Rafa Benitez won a European Cup with 2 players he bought, Hamann, Dudek, Gerrard, Carragher and a some also rans.

 

Chelsea's European record on its own is quite impressive, it's consistent right up to the point where it matters most and each manager they have had has had a more complete squad to work with than Rafa ever did in 2005 or 2007.

 

"Rafa's record in Europe is decent" 2 final appearances and one European Cup is "decent" is it? Behave.

 

we have had our differences but you do actually speak alot of sense!

 

You want to know why we were so feared in Europe (and we were) because we had the savviest European manager around (and I couldn't stand what he served up in the prem so this is in no way bias) and any team coming back to Anfield knew that no matter what they had, we could take if from them.

 

Olympiakos may not have been the greatest side in Europe but they gave us the task of scoring three goals to get through, a task we against the odds completed.

 

We battered the overrated Bayer Leverkusen, Berbatov and all.

 

We beat Juve the only way it was really possible for us to because like everyone else we faced from that moment on they were ten times the side we were. Garcia's magic and then one of the most disciplined italian-esque performances in Europe you'll ever see.

 

Chelsea were already planning for Istanbul, their fans had bought the tickets and Mourinho was telling his side how much better they were than Liverpool. He was right of course, they were ten times the side we were but he'd forgotten two things.

 

Our history - people say we overrate this but that's because they don't get it. It was our history that inspired us every one of us that went to that game that night, it was our history that allowed us to dream because it certainly wasn't the present! We used our belief from nights gone by that we'd either witnessed or heard about to inspire our players and it worked, they all gave more than they ever have or probably ever will again.

 

Rafa Benitez - Rafa love him or hate him knew exactly how to get the best out of his side over two legs and was a master at shutting down or at least making the opposition less effective. Once we had what we needed we held it. "We shall not be moved" was the cry and it was apt as we were not no matter how many times Chelsea pressed forward.

 

The final? Well Milan also underestimated us and the effect that we as supporters can have on our players. They met with the same outcome as the rent boys.

 

 

Benitez then got a better squad to work with and we were less defensive other than against Barca. We played a better brand of football and we more than matched Chelsea over two legs and our victory this time wasn't built on none shall pass, it was more, we're every bit as good as you even if we arn't as consistent.

 

That's right code, Chelsea were indeed consistent and that's why they did so much better in the league, but over two legs when it was all on the line when we peaked in Europe (despite sadly not being able to take that final step in a game we should have won) they couldn't beat us.

 

They dealt with us on the way down and while we put up a fight, we simply weren't good enough over the two legs and they were at that time the better side in Europe and in the League. You have to hold your hands up to that fact.

 

Do you really think that Chelsea, the players, the fans, the owner wouldn't swop their consistency in Europe for just ONE European Cup? Of course they would. They have been more consistent in Europe, that doesn't make them better and Rafa certainly didn't take a back seat to anyone in Europe.

 

agree 100% i dont even like rafa that much

 

i just think he is one of the best managers the champions league has seen and mourinho and all the others know it.

 

Chelsea consistently won absolutely fuck all in Europe despite spending 476 quadzillion pounds.

 

Djimi Traore, on the other hand, has a European Cup winners medal.

 

damn that was my next line....

 

look at the team he won it with, fucking hell! some right shit players have winners medals and that is becuase of rafa!

 

Agree with all of that other than one thing. I think one day Rafa will realise (if he hasn't already) the error of his ways in trying to do too much. I think partly the fact he looked for total control at Liverpool was the incompetence he saw around him.

 

If Rafa had not looked for total control our youth system would not be nearly as good, so that's another thing we have to thank him for in hindsight.

 

If/when Liverpool are settled and we have proven that we have the right men in the right jobs I believe the job should be offered once again to Rafa under the condition that he just does HIS job. If he accepts those terms then I truly believe that he will win the title that evaded him when he was here because once again with hindsight, it's easy to see we had one of the best managers in Europe and if you take away his obvious flaw then he could have been the best.

 

yea i think your right, he went mental becuase things were getting bad with those yanks. if he was given proper money after 2005 we would have won it by now i think.

 

I was in the Saddle once, after we beat the shite 3-0, and this old women pissed herself in front of everyone and simply got up and moved seats!

 

But she was still less embarrasing than you at this moment!

 

It is like talking to a particularly stupid wall!!

 

lol

 

wow

 

Each to their own, I find those trying to paint this glory around Rafa`s head far more embarrasing.

 

The main reason we were good in Europe under Rafa was because we were an English team during a period when the PL was superior in financial stature, not because our manager was some kind of CL wizard.

 

Please come up with a proper constructed argument against it and we can probably have a good discussion on the subject.

 

At least 95% of the evidence points to me having a very strong case though.

 

so the team he won it with the squad of players he had.....they were obviously gona win the champions league right?

 

traore, mellor, pongolle, biscan etc etc

 

this is where your arguement falls short, he won it with shit players becuase of the tactics he used.

 

who the fuck remembers semi finalist? nobody.....why?

 

becuase they werent good enough to make the final......this is where your shitty poorly constructed pathetic arguement falls short.

 

Code, you're a spaz.

 

yea i think so too.....guys got like a million posts to his name, feel sorry that you have all had to put up with someone that posts so much but knows absolutely fuck al

 

He was a genius in Europe. Get over it.

 

exactly

 

 

Anyone who doesn'r rate rafa, doesn't understand football.

Last night he spoke about Barca's high tempo game and pointed out that it was only played in half of the pitch because the other teams usually let them.

It was the most profound, intelligent coaching comment I'd heard on Sky Sports during it's entire 20 year span. Souness even loved it, and seemed genuinely impressed, like he's never thought of it before. For Rafa, it's just another day at the office, that's what he does, analyses the fuck out of things.

 

Still can't believe some of youms being negative about him. Get some help.

 

to not rate rafa in europe is just fucking stupid.

 

we were all there...we saw what was going on around that time and we all knew nobody wanted to play liverpool. it was a truly amazing thing he did in those 3-4 season.....personally i think many of the players were average to shit......but time and time again he got it right.

 

"Barcelona have done to Arsenal what Arsenal do to 99% of the teams in the premier league."

 

Still on form as ever I see Jamie.

 

lol when he said that i was thinkign what the fuck are you on about!

 

I really don't know why I'm going to bother with this, but here goes...

 

First paragraph. Really? Are you really? Because you could have fooled me Code. You even damn his achievements with faint praise.

 

Second paragraph and third paragraph. So, you expected us to beat all those sides did you, with the team/squad at our disposal? You expected us to go to the Nou Camp and become the first (and still only, I think) English side to win there?

 

I can't be arsed to go through all the other fantastic results and performances we put in in Europe under Rafa, but trying to compare his achievements with what Utd and Chelsea, with the squads and funds their respective managers' had at their disposal, is hardly a level playing field is it?

 

there is no comparison

 

we beat the best and beat them well......who did they beat? and how did they beat them?

 

fucking AC ROMA? do me a fucking favour........they were shit then and are shit now....

 

if anybody on here doesnt think that rafa changed the way english teams approach europe.......go back through some video's and look at the formations teams played before 2005 and then look at the formations after it.

 

its no coincidence.

 

also how we approached games, pressing certain teams high up and sitting back against other was again all about rafa......

 

fergie, wenger and even mourinho (to an extent) did not have a fucking clue in europe....its no coincidence that after we used 4-2-3-1 and everyone else started to use it....english teams suddenly dominated europe again.

 

say what you want those are the facts and anyone who disagrees needs to do they're home work!

[Code]

Negged.

 

lol.

[Liverpool lad]

We never did talk about why Alonso left

[Scousa Tomo]

Because he new Lucas was on the verge of forcing him out of the team

[Guest PurpleNose]

We never did talk about why Alonso left

 

He was shit.

[Liverpool lad]

He was shit.

 

How many seasons was he under par, this is what we need to know

[Guest PurpleNose]

How many seasons was he under par, this is what we need to know

 

Seven.

[Phoenix]

Show me, where did i knock anything he did for us in Europe? I said we were fantastic in Europe for a few seasons. I just cringe at this notion that we were a feared team in Europe. It's complete and utter rubbish.

 

It's not cringeworthy when it is a fact.

[Gym Beglin]

"Barcelona have done to Arsenal what Arsenal do to 99% of the teams in the premier league."

 

Still on form as ever I see Jamie.

 

I loved that, quality use of mathematics to kill a point stone dead.

 

It was funny last night, they were asking Souness what he thought about Arsenal's chances, then they were asking Rafa, and of course I listened intently to both ex-managers give their opinions on the game.

Then they cut to pitchside so that Jamie fucking Redknapp could teach us a bit more...at which point I grinned, shook my head, and changed the channel until kick-off time.

Who the fuck he thinks he is, I don't know.

[king luis]

It's not cringeworthy when it is a fact.

 

sure is

 

makes you wonder if half the people on this forum were actually liverpool fans back in 2005

 

I loved that, quality use of mathematics to kill a point stone dead.

 

It was funny last night, they were asking Souness what he thought about Arsenal's chances, then they were asking Rafa, and of course I listened intently to both ex-managers give their opinions on the game.

Then they cut to pitchside so that Jamie fucking Redknapp could teach us a bit more...at which point I grinned, shook my head, and changed the channel until kick-off time.

Who the fuck he thinks he is, I don't know.

 

he is an ex red so im not going to slate him too much...plus i've met him and he is a pretty down to earth guy if im honest.

 

but he has turned into a sky whore, thats bad news....

[Ponz]

The main reason we were good in Europe under Rafa was because we were an English team during a period when the PL was superior in financial stature, not because our manager was some kind of CL wizard.

 

The massive whoppers you produce whenever Rafa comes up never cease to amaze. How did the "superior financial stature" of the PL help him transform a squad including Biscan, Traore, Mellor, Pongolle, Smicer, Kewell, Baros and Cisse into European Cup winners? The total cost of our starting eleven in Istanbul (roughly £45 million) was less than 25% of Chelsea's net transfer spending in 03/04 and 04/05 alone (£207 million). Yes, we made some decent investments between 04/05 and the asset strippers' arrival but those merely built on the confidence and tactical superiority that Rafa had already instilled in our European campaigns.

 

Rafa has major flaws as a manager but to suggest that his extraordinary achivements in Europe were somehow a "reflection of the times" is nothing short of insane. Why is it so hard for you to accept even the most self-evident points in his favour?

 

Chelsea started it, they kept on doing in and they continued with it long after we finished our purple patch.

 

One final in seven to show for £350 million net spend is pathetic. And their supposed trailblazing semi-final run in 2003 culminated in being turned over by relegation/bankruptcy threatened Monaco.

[WrongIslander]

sure is

 

makes you wonder if half the people on this forum were actually liverpool fans back in 2005

 

 

 

he is an ex red so im not going to slate him too much...plus i've met him and he is a pretty down to earth guy if im honest.

 

but he has turned into a sky whore, thats bad news....

 

He's hard to like thesedays though when all it takes for him to reneg on his defence of Liverpool is someone to suggest he's wrong. Even on the occassion when he is right and continues to stick up for us his indepth retort tends to be "nah carm on".

 

He ends up like that bloke on the fast show:

 

"So Jamie, good game today by Liverpool, the zonal marking worked a treat."

 

"Well yeah zonal marking, it's the future innit, ya know priceless."

 

"Actually I thought the zonal marking was at fault for the first and second goals."

 

"Yeah zonal marking, waste of space innit really."

 

"But zonal marking has led to less goals from setpieces than man to man during Rafa's time at the club in comparison with the top 4."

 

"That's right zonal marking, great really."

 

"Ah but Liverpool have given away less corners so the ratio isn't fair."

 

"Well that's it innit less corners, not fair, zonal marking, what's the point really it's rubbish."

[king luis]

lol i see your point......

 

but i will say one thing in his defence.....he was spot on about torres not trying... and look were that got him!

 

everybody went mad about that comment, but he was bang on about that.

[Code]

The massive whoppers you produce whenever Rafa comes up never cease to amaze. How did the "superior financial stature" of the PL help him transform a squad including Biscan, Traore, Mellor, Pongolle, Smicer, Kewell, Baros and Cisse into European Cup winners? The total cost of our starting eleven in Istanbul (roughly £45 million) was less than 25% of Chelsea's net transfer spending in 03/04 and 04/05 alone (£207 million). Yes, we made some decent investments between 04/05 and the asset strippers' arrival but those merely built on the confidence and tactical superiority that Rafa had already instilled in our European campaigns.

 

Rafa has major flaws as a manager but to suggest that his extraordinary achivements in Europe were somehow a "reflection of the times" is nothing short of insane. Why is it so hard for you to accept even the most self-evident points in his favour?

 

 

 

One final in seven to show for £350 million net spend is pathetic. And their supposed trailblazing semi-final run in 2003 culminated in being turned over by relegation/bankruptcy threatened Monaco.

 

So what you are saying is that if we had another manager during this period we would have been pretty average in Europe while all the other teams from England reached finals and semi finals like never before.

 

Thanks for clearing that up.

[Scousa Tomo]

[navbasi]

see comments in red - not quite as rosy as it would seem

 

 

I bet it's "half empty" isn't it? :whistle:

[navbasi]

 

That's just so random that actually cracked me up!! Brilliant!

[RSM]

That's just bollocks I'm afraid. I'm probably is harshest critic, but you can't for a minute knock what he did for us in Europe. At least not with a straight face.

 

You can't re-wrute history just you no longer like the guy. Even I won't do that, and nor should you.

 

We absolutely WERE one of the most feared teams in Europe and I'll always be grateful to Rafa for giving us back some pride in that regard. That is well and truly his legacy and what he should be remembered for, so I won't begrudge him milking it from time to time. No way.

 

 

The reason we had that rep in Europe is down mostly to his superb tactical awareness and calm control in Europe.

If he could only relax his ego and get involved with a top class set up whereby he is the coach and the coach alone, with a director of football above him, then despite me thinking he's a dick, he could be one of the very best ever. And I mean ever.

 

As a coach, in one off games, he's virtually untouchable. A true genius who 8 times out 10 will get things spot on, and nothing can ever take that away from him.

 

His massive, gaping failures as a manager centre on his failure to be able to build a squad and in spotting players. On the whole he's as terrible at those things as he is good at European tactics!

 

If he was ingratiated in to a club that had a competent technical director or football director who selected and bought players and ran the club on a day to day basis, and Rafa was just left to doing what he does best - coaching teams - then he could be frighteningly good.

 

But alas, his ego would never, ever, ever allow that. He has to have complete control over everything and is exactly why I doubt he'll ever go on to better what he did here. He just doesn't have it as a manager IMO.

 

He's never built a top class squad, and I doubt he ever will. He needs to learn to self analyse more and recognise that he's probably the world's best coach on his day, but one of the worst club managers.

 

Kudos for giving him the recognition he deserves on the coaching front.

 

Despit being seen as negative; it was his "ego" that demanded that he have full control over the Academy setup while everyone on here was screaming blue murder and that what went on in the Academy was none of his business.

 

That same "ego" eventually got his way for the good of the Club; completed a wholsale root and branch review of the Academy and then put competent people in charge and let them get on with it.

 

We now have an Academy that is as exciting as it's ever been in terms of potential players coming through.

 

Rafa fully accepts some of his mistakes on the transfer front; but he was also handicapped by the wankers above him. He was never affored the same luxuries as his competitors when it came to transfers.

[DJLJ]

lol exactly.....dont worry mate, we will put these idiots in they're places soon enough.

 

Calling other people idiots and wanting to put them in their places while not being able to spell is well, idiotic perhaps?

[king luis]

Calling other people idiots and wanting to put them in their places while not being able to spell is well, idiotic perhaps?

 

very

 

spelling and grammar arent my strong point

 

putting people in their, they're, thee, thai places is....

 

;)

[goatboy59]

 

"I see a ass, I nail it goddamnit..."

[Ponz]

So what you are saying is that if we had another manager during this period we would have been pretty average in Europe while all the other teams from England reached finals and semi finals like never before.

.

 

You have the causation back to front. Our 04/05 success was a massive wake up call to United in terms of their expectations as well as their tactical approach to European games. Same is true of Arsenal in the first case but Wenger's failure to similarly adapt his tactics explains why they continually stumble at crucial moments.

 

Again, Chelsea's record is poor relative to the money they've spent so the comparison is moot.

[SlugTrail]

I too would like to see Rafa in the set up as we have now, but at the expense of Kenny? i don't think so!

 

if Kenny was to decide he didn't want the job (no fucking chance) or FSG didn't want to go down the path of keeping him on, then Rafa would be my first choice.

[Randy Marsh]

Some toss being spouted in this thread.