Is this really the end of our glory days?...

[Captain]

Is that what I said? No, so STFU.

 

You always get the odd outlier with any set of data.

 

I do? Could you provide some samples, please?

[andrew78]

As the transfer window closed,my thoughts were of all our supporters.

The understandable disappointment that we did not manage to buy another striker,and the general fear of a slow descent towards mediocrity brought about by the two fuckwits that are in charge of our great club.

I looked up a few of Shanks's quotes to cheer me up a bit and found this.. .

 

"A lot of football success is in the mind. You must believe you are the best and then make sure that you are".

 

My question relating to this is,have things changed that much that this quote is now completely redundant ?.In as much as,is belief (bearing in mind our history), now a long lost virtue in the game that will never be resurrected.

If our fans had anything to do with our success on the pitch we would have nothing to worry about.Maybe those days have gone.

 

We will always be a great club because of our fans,but is that enough?

 

Another of Shanks's quotes:

 

“Above all, I would like to be remembered as a man who was selfless, who strove and worried so that others could share the glory, and who built up a family of people who could hold their heads up high and say, 'We're Liverpool'.”

 

Il sum it up to fucking right they are ,until they are gone you will never see lfc up there with the best,they have set us back years

[Lapskaus]

Our glory days ended with Rafa before our current holders got a stranglehold of the club.

 

We've got a long, long way to go.

 

Ended with Rafa? he won us the CL and almost won the league, he brought us the best midfield in the world and the best striker in the world. Pay your respect, he almost succeeded in bringing us back to the top. The owners made sure it will take a miracle to get us back

[col06]

If we arn't sold by the end of this season, Torres walks. Take it to the bank.

 

It won't just be Torres who walks

[Reacher]

 

Ended with Rafa? he won us the CL and almost won the league, he brought us the best midfield in the world and the best striker in the world. Pay your respect, he almost succeeded in bringing us back to the top. The owners made sure it will take a miracle to get us back

 

Whatever your thoughts on Rafa this is a good post, he did a lot for us in a very difficult time. Sure he wasn't perfect, but the snideness isn't needed.

[Rafa_The_Gaffa]

Yes. Unfortunately :( :( :( :|:(:wallbutt::whoops:

[ned]

For the moment. But we'll be back. Maybe not tomorrow, but one day.

[Chippo]

Well it might just get alot worse..

[Faustus]

This is something I've thought to myself about for a while.

 

To be honest, our 'glory days' in terms of challenging for League titles ended a long time before Hicks and Gillett arrived at Anfield, unfortunately. I mean, since we last won it in 1990, how many times have we come close to winning it? Three times is it? Once under Evans in '97, once under Houllier in 2002 and once under Rafa the other year? The basic fact is that we've had 20 years to get our house in order and build on the period from when we were untouchable in the '80s going into the decade when money talked and we've failed miserably.

 

To be honest, I think David Moores has to take a hell of a lot of stick for everything that's gone on. Hicks and Gillett are utter cunts, but they've only done what they were ever going to do. Buy a football club with money they didn't have and basically reap the financial rewards. For a start, Moores should have had the foresight to realise this. After all one quick google search of 'fat, obnoxious Texan' (or alternatively 'Tom Hicks') would have given him a huge list of reasons of why not to sell to them.

 

While Man Utd were exploiting the Asian market, building a megastore and expanding Old Trafford, what the fuck were we doing? Totally lacking the foresight to do any of these things when we should have been one of the trailblazers. The galling thing is we should be a self-sufficient club right now.

 

It's not just on the business side of things, but also on the footballing side of things under Moores. The man lacked the bollocks to be a chairman, plain and simple. He lacked the strength to make big decisions. Souness should have been axed long before he did, Evans' exit should have been handled with more dignity rather than having him have to put up with the joint managers farce and you could even argue that we should have moved Houllier on after we finished fifth in '03.

 

Anyway, sorry about turning this into a bit of a rant at David Moores, but I think our 'glory day's of being a side who is expected to challenge for and win League titles died a long time ago. We're still a massive club and I don't think anybody can dispute that, but we find ourselves in this position after failing to build on our success in the '80s both on and off the pitch.

[gkmacca]

Do try to get a grip.

[Guest barralad]

For the moment. But we'll be back. Maybe not tomorrow, but one day.

I love you optimism,I really do,and I agree in as much that as a club we will always hold the higher ground as far as fans go.

I think at the moment we are in "transition".

I can not believe that nobody has considered us as a viable financial proposition.

Apart from the the fact that Cancer and Aids are holding out for such an unrealistic price,

surely someone,somewhere within the club can finally make them see sense..for fuck sake!!.

How did we ever let this happen?

[Redshadow]

Never mind the end of the season WrongIslander - IF the constant denials/delays and obstructions - the constant ''Have to wait''/Have to STOP the current attempts to buy by ANY means possible DON'T stop and we are NOT sold by January? I'd put Money on Torres being Sold by then Before he could walk and to give the owners one last little 'pay-day' before they ARE forced out - Possibly Gerrard with him just to spite us as they KNOW how much we hate them and will be Desperate to have one last say and rub salt in our wounds one last time before going. Torres WILL go in January if we're not sold by then and he SEES evidence that we're going forward - Gerrard to - The difference in both between the games against Arsenal and then against Man City and this weekend was startling. They've Both had enough I'd say and it will NOT be long before they show it if something doesn't happen to remove G & H VERY soon and it will be long before the end of this season to as well. You can see it a mile off....................

 

NB Faustus - Good rant but I dispute one VERY big point in it. I don't think Moores DID go into the sale unaware of what Hicks and Gillette (the REAL dealmaker and clubbreaker in our case) were capable of. I think he knew EXACTLY who he was selling to but didn't care - Once they offered him extra cash to DIC with NO argument unlike DIC who wanted everything exact before they would buy us for less? Moores couldn't have cared less about us. Hence his pathetic attempt to 'justify' his disgusting greed 3 years to late in Murdoch's mouthpiece - the Times a few months back.

 

He KNEW what he was doing and probably had an idea of the damage it might cause but with regards to him? The WORST 4 words that can be levelled at ANY owner are applicable - HE JUST DIDN'T CARE. If I ever saw him now - he'd care alright but it's to late with regards to the club - the damage was done 3 years ago when H & G said ''What DIC are offering you? We'll offer 3 times as much''. The deal was sealed then regardless of potential damage to Liverpool. Moores was a greedy parasite by the end of his time with us and he sold us to 2 MUCH bigger versions of himself in that respect.

 

NBB: In my view on the thread title? Our glory days ended the day that idiot Moores decided to appoint his great friend and confidante Graeme Souness manager - That man DESTROYED our last title-winning side within a year and we NEVER recovered from his disastrous tinkering and the ''Buy, buy, buy/Sell, sell, sell'' revolving doors policy he took to transfers during his first two seasons.

[Carvalho Diablo]

As a slight aside, from someone old enough to remember our glory years, I've long thought that when we do win the league title again, I really hope that they present us with the real league championship trophy - our rightful league championship trophy - graceful, elegant, lithe and lovely...and not the awful, pointy, misshapen Sky TV inspired monstrosity, forged from the fires of Mount Doom and presented to filth like Ferguson, Neville and Mourinho on many, many Godforesaken, stomach churning occasions.

[Faustus]

Never mind the end of the season WrongIslander - IF the constant denials/delays and obstructions - the constant ''Have to wait''/Have to STOP the current attempts to buy by ANY means possible DON'T stop and we are NOT sold by January? I'd put Money on Torres being Sold by then Before he could walk and to give the owners one last little 'pay-day' before they ARE forced out - Possibly Gerrard with him just to spite us as they KNOW how much we hate them and will be Desperate to have one last say and rub salt in our wounds one last time before going. Torres WILL go in January if we're not sold by then and he SEES evidence that we're going forward - Gerrard to - The difference in both between the games against Arsenal and then against Man City and this weekend was startling. They've Both had enough I'd say and it will NOT be long before they show it if something doesn't happen to remove G & H VERY soon and it will be long before the end of this season to as well. You can see it a mile off....................

 

NB Faustus - Good rant but I dispute one VERY big point in it. I don't think Moores DID go into the sale unaware of what Hicks and Gillette (the REAL dealmaker and clubbreaker in our case) were capable of. I think he knew EXACTLY who he was selling to but didn't care - Once they offered him extra cash to DIC with NO argument unlike DIC who wanted everything exact before they would buy us for less? Moores couldn't have cared less about us. Hence his pathetic attempt to 'justify' his disgusting greed 3 years to late in Murdoch's mouthpiece - the Times a few months back.

 

He KNEW what he was doing and probably had an idea of the damage it might cause but with regards to him? The WORST 4 words that can be levelled at ANY owner are applicable - HE JUST DIDN'T CARE. If I ever saw him now - he'd care alright but it's to late with regards to the club - the damage was done 3 years ago when H & G said ''What DIC are offering you? We'll offer 3 times as much''. The deal was sealed then regardless of potential damage to Liverpool. Moores was a greedy parasite by the end of his time with us and he sold us to 2 MUCH bigger versions of himself in that respect.

NBB: In my view on the thread title? Our glory days ended the day that idiot Moores decided to appoint his great friend and confidante Graeme Souness manager - That man DESTROYED our last title-winning side within a year and we NEVER recovered from his disastrous tinkering and the ''Buy, buy, buy/Sell, sell, sell'' revolving doors policy he took to transfers during his first two seasons.

 

Fair enough, mate. Obviously Moores' motives are up for debate. The truth will come out one day though. It always does.

[Redshadow]

Sorry about this being almost the same as the post before - Should have read as follows minus a few Capital words - errors etc;

 

Never mind the end of the season WrongIslander - IF the constant denials/delays and obstructions - the constant ''Have to wait''/Have to Stop All current attempts to buy by ANY means possible Don't stop and we are NOT sold by January? I'd put Money on Torres being Sold by then Before he could walk and to give the owners one last little 'pay-day' before they Are forced out - Possibly Gerrard with him just to spite us as they KNOW how much we hate them and will be Desperate to have one last say and rub salt in our wounds one last time before going.

 

In short, Torres WILL go in January if we're not sold by then and he SEES evidence that we're going forward - Gerrard to. Just look at their attitudes in recent matches. The difference in both between the games against Arsenal and then against Man City and this weekend was startling with the apparent indifference of both on Sunday And last Monday worrying to say the least. They've Both had enough I'd say and it will NOT be long before they show it if something doesn't happen to remove G & H VERY soon. This will happen long before the end of this season as well. You can see it cominga mile off....................

 

NB Faustus - Good rant but I dispute one Very big point in it. I don't think Moores DID go into the sale unaware of what Hicks and Gillette (the Real dealmaker and clubbreaker in our case) were capable of. I think he knew EXACTLY who he was selling to/dealing with but didn't care - Once they offered him extra cash compared to the DIC offer with No argument unlike DIC who wanted everything exact before they would buy us for less? Moores couldn't have cared less about us. Hence his pathetic attempt to 'justify' his disgusting greed 3 years to late in Murdoch's mouthpiece - the Times a few months back.

 

He KNEW what he was doing and probably had an idea of the damage it might cause but with regards to him? The Worst

4 words that can be levelled at ANY owner are applicable - HE JUST DIDN'T CARE. Well, to see the amount of damage he's done is enough to make Any LFC fan cry and put it this way - If I ever saw him now - I wouldn't be the one crying and HE would Certainly care alright about what he's done to us. However, all that is to late with regards to the club - the damage was done 3 years ago when H & G said ''What DIC are offering you? We'll offer 3 times as much''. The deal was sealed then regardless of potential damage to Liverpool. Moores was a greedy parasite by the end of his time with us and he sold us to 2 Much bigger versions of himself in that respect.

 

The ONLY ways we'll get them out now is by Cutting their revenues from Anfield almost entirely no matter What it takes in terms of picketing Anfield, forcing stoppages of games, mass boycotts etc Or? By FORCING them out through intimidation - by intimidating and making H & G afraid to such an extent that they value their own miserable lives over any profits and get out ASAP even if that means having them threatened/intimidated in their home areas of the US. They will take notice of NOTHING else bar Intimidation or Damage to their LFC Income.

 

NBB: In my view on the thread title? Our glory days ended the day that idiot Moores decided to appoint his great friend and confidante Graeme Souness manager - That man DESTROYED our last title-winning side within a year and we NEVER recovered from his disastrous tinkering and the ''Buy, buy, buy/Sell, sell, sell'' revolving doors policy he took to transfers during his first two seasons. Souness ruined us more than ANYTHING else............

[MOGLET]

Honest answer?

 

Depends what you call "glory Days", if winning the league more or less every year with the same team more or less, then yes they are gone.

If you mean dominating the rest of the dross who we have to play each season, then yes they are gone.

If you mean the club is a force to be reckoned with by all who enter, then hmmmm not always, but mostly.

 

Sadly, I think people are looking too much at the shite we have for owners and thinking the team and how we play along with the ownership make the same thing.

 

They dont.

 

Glory days of having an owner who gives a shite, they are deffo gone, they went west when parry and moores decided to line their pockets without making sure they sold the club to people who gave a shite.

 

 

As to the team and the club football wise?

 

We have won some silverware of note in the recent past, both adding to the "glory" of our history, but sadly and yes I know I like that word, mainly because it is sad, we have not won the one thing I personally, and im sure most want, and thats another league title.

 

So glory in the old way of thinking, ie those of us who did actually see the king Kenny play, is deffo gone, but, we still have a little bit of magic left, we just need to get shot of the cancer that is G&H, and find an owner who really does have the club at heart over making a fast buck.

 

Once that happens, who knows? we might get the old magic up and running again, and the real glory will come with it.

 

But until then, this is still LFC and this is still Anfield, so regardless of what wankers hold the purse, we will all follow and support no matter.

 

 

 

 

 

 

And when the glory returns, maybe some people on here might get a sense of humour back, and I wont be negged for being bored :)

[Redshadow]

3637 Agree with most of what you said bar this ''I want David Moores back'' - I don't - I want him if not Dead then severly Physically DAMAGED for what he's done to us in the name of his own GREED!!!! And Moglet? Maybe you have a point - maybe we need to ''Get SHOT of H & G'' quite literally if you take my meaning?

[edge of darknes]

This is something I've thought to myself about for a while.

 

To be honest, our 'glory days' in terms of challenging for League titles ended a long time before Hicks and Gillett arrived at Anfield, unfortunately. I mean, since we last won it in 1990, how many times have we come close to winning it? Three times is it? Once under Evans in '97, once under Houllier in 2002 and once under Rafa the other year? The basic fact is that we've had 20 years to get our house in order and build on the period from when we were untouchable in the '80s going into the decade when money talked and we've failed miserably.

 

To be honest, I think David Moores has to take a hell of a lot of stick for everything that's gone on. Hicks and Gillett are utter cunts, but they've only done what they were ever going to do. Buy a football club with money they didn't have and basically reap the financial rewards. For a start, Moores should have had the foresight to realise this. After all one quick google search of 'fat, obnoxious Texan' (or alternatively 'Tom Hicks') would have given him a huge list of reasons of why not to sell to them.

 

While Man Utd were exploiting the Asian market, building a megastore and expanding Old Trafford, what the fuck were we doing? Totally lacking the foresight to do any of these things when we should have been one of the trailblazers. The galling thing is we should be a self-sufficient club right now.

 

It's not just on the business side of things, but also on the footballing side of things under Moores. The man lacked the bollocks to be a chairman, plain and simple. He lacked the strength to make big decisions. Souness should have been axed long before he did, Evans' exit should have been handled with more dignity rather than having him have to put up with the joint managers farce and you could even argue that we should have moved Houllier on after we finished fifth in '03.

 

Anyway, sorry about turning this into a bit of a rant at David Moores, but I think our 'glory day's of being a side who is expected to challenge for and win League titles died a long time ago. We're still a massive club and I don't think anybody can dispute that, but we find ourselves in this position after failing to build on our success in the '80s both on and off the pitch.

 

This is a really good post. Hits the nails firmly on the head. the yanks have speeded up what moores presided over. Thanks a lot, David. Enjoy your extra 8 million why dont you?

[Guest TesticleOReilly]

David Moores didn't fuck this club. He is guilty of being a bit greedy, and a lot stupid. Tom Hicks and George Gillett have fucked this club.

[WaltonRed]

This is something I've thought to myself about for a while.

 

To be honest, our 'glory days' in terms of challenging for League titles ended a long time before Hicks and Gillett arrived at Anfield, unfortunately. I mean, since we last won it in 1990, how many times have we come close to winning it? Three times is it? Once under Evans in '97, once under Houllier in 2002 and once under Rafa the other year? The basic fact is that we've had 20 years to get our house in order and build on the period from when we were untouchable in the '80s going into the decade when money talked and we've failed miserably.

 

To be honest, I think David Moores has to take a hell of a lot of stick for everything that's gone on. Hicks and Gillett are utter cunts, but they've only done what they were ever going to do. Buy a football club with money they didn't have and basically reap the financial rewards. For a start, Moores should have had the foresight to realise this. After all one quick google search of 'fat, obnoxious Texan' (or alternatively 'Tom Hicks') would have given him a huge list of reasons of why not to sell to them.

 

While Man Utd were exploiting the Asian market, building a megastore and expanding Old Trafford, what the fuck were we doing? Totally lacking the foresight to do any of these things when we should have been one of the trailblazers. The galling thing is we should be a self-sufficient club right now.

 

It's not just on the business side of things, but also on the footballing side of things under Moores. The man lacked the bollocks to be a chairman, plain and simple. He lacked the strength to make big decisions. Souness should have been axed long before he did, Evans' exit should have been handled with more dignity rather than having him have to put up with the joint managers farce and you could even argue that we should have moved Houllier on after we finished fifth in '03.

 

Anyway, sorry about turning this into a bit of a rant at David Moores, but I think our 'glory day's of being a side who is expected to challenge for and win League titles died a long time ago. We're still a massive club and I don't think anybody can dispute that, but we find ourselves in this position after failing to build on our success in the '80s both on and off the pitch.

 

David Moores didn't fuck this club. He is guilty of being a bit greedy, and a lot stupid. Tom Hicks and George Gillett have fucked this club.

 

Read Liams post until you get it.

 

DM killed us.

[Guest TesticleOReilly]

Read Liams post until you get it.

 

DM killed us.

 

David Moores didn't fuck this club. He is guilty of being a bit greedy, and a lot stupid. Tom Hicks and George Gillett have fucked this club.

 

Which bit of that don't you get? Moores is a borderline retard, deluded into thinking he could run a football club. He couldn't. Yes, he and Parry were, to a large extent, hopeless, but he's guilty of negligence, nothing more.

 

Hicks and Gillett put this club on the brink. Moores (stupidly) sold it in good faith to 2 successful sports businessmen with an impressive portfolio. They lied, they stole, they put this club in the state it's in right now. Not Moores.

 

You probably think bullet manufacturers are killers, too, tho', eh? Hitler's mum is responsible for murdering Jews? How about Boeing, for making the planes used in 9/11? How far back do you want blame to go?

 

Hicks and Gillett put this club in the debt it's in, by not paying for it with their own money.

[Carra_is_legend]

It is, pretty much. And it has been a while I think.

 

No.5 was totally out of the blue and we should have made the most of it by selling the club for more money and to proper owners.

 

We didn't and we are fucked now.

 

If we don't get sold before the next transfer window, we will be well and truly fucked.

[Carvalho Diablo]

I'm reading this thread and glancing up at the thread title...can't help it, but I'm starting to hear the litlting chorus to Springsteen's "Glory Days", except it's all a bit deformed and skewed, like a clowns mask thrown into a bon fire.

 

It's making me wanna smash a telecaster over Springsteens fuckin head.

[KopOut]

i have a dream . . .

ultimately, the re-financing of the hicks brigade won't mean much even if they are successful, as the owners cannot sustain their current debt levels and cannot increase their income substantially, due to NOT being able to build a higher capacity stadium, so the club sale is on the cards..the only question is when, and how much. eventually I fully expect LFC to rise phoenix like from the ashes with new investment and a brand new team of killer youth players who will win everything under Kenny.

[Guest Captain Jonjo]

Some pessimistic people on here, the club will arise again, the club cannot not rise again, this is the most successful English team we are talking about, didnt inter milan go through a similar period during the 90's and nougties like liverpool? look where they are now and where their rivals milan and juve are. The same will happen with Liverpool, the glory days will be back, and manure and chelski will be on the backfoot. We have something special at the club that others don't the, 'liverpool way', a unique philosophy, teams like chelski and manure are mediocre teams built using a stash of money by playboys who need a big toy, it won't last, what does last is a culture, one we have at liverpool.

 

All we need to progress is the scumcunt yanks to leave. Some new investment, an overhaul of the club and how its run, more needs to be put into the academy so we can build and nurture our own players, rather than having to spend big bucks on foreign talent.