The latest twist in the media's favourite speculative story.

[Paul]

What utter shite this is. As if we're going to accept playing six matches before the group stage even starts and then getting zero cash for the six group games. These journalists will write any old shite on a slow news day, especially if it's a Sunday and the season is over. This bloke also conveniently ignores the fact that Everton won't make the group stage and the money issue is therefore irrelevant.

 

The Sunday Times

5th June 2005

 

Liverpool face long road in European defence

Liverpool seem set to defend the Champions League, but Uefa are considering starting them at the bottom — in the first qualifying round, writes Rob Hughes

 

 

 

LIVERPOOL remain on track to be invited to defend the Champions League title they won in Istanbul last month. Uefa is still working towards a telephone conference among its executive committee before the June 17 meeting in Manchester — with the announcement probably coming a week tomorrow.

However, the road to next season’s tournament is now likely to involve significant sacrifices. Rather than being welcomed straight into the first round proper group phase, Liverpool could be asked to compete from the very start of the qualifying stages, which kick off in mid-July. Furthermore, the club could be asked to forego TV and marketing money from the first group phase.

 

 

 

“It is very complicated,” admits one of the leading executive members. “We caught ourselves out by not foreseeing a situation where the European Champions did not actually qualify for the following season by finishing high enough in their domestic league.” Liverpool finished only fifth in the Premiership. The Football Association is permitted a maximum of four clubs in the misnamed Champions League, but were not prepared to exclude one of those qualifiers, especially as the most vulnerable of the four would be Everton, who were deprived of European football after winning the league in 1985, the year when Uefa banned English participation because of the Heysel tragedy involving Liverpool fans.

 

“Like our president Lennart Johansson,” said the executive committee member, “we realise we should not destroy the validity of our own tournament because we made a mistake in the rules. There has been some discussion about who makes way for Liverpool, and some about the millions of pounds involved. But I’m sure we will by an absolute majority back Liverpool’s inclusion.”

 

Why the anonymity? The member is one of several who claim to have been misrepresented in newspaper stories after last week’s Sunday Times revelation that a way would be found to include Liverpool. “We have a very delicate duty now to work towards finding solutions, not to make things more difficult,” he said.

 

If Liverpool were entered in the group phase one club, Fenerbahce of Istanbul, would have dropped to the qualifying round, but if, as is now more likely, Liverpool join at the start of the qualifying process, two clubs from Moldova will bypass the first qualifying round and go into the second.

 

The big money kicks in at the group phase, and much has been made of the fact that Liverpool’s presence there could mean Chelsea, Arsenal, Manchester United and Everton having to split five ways instead of four the millions from television and marketing, which could cost each of them £5m.

 

Liverpool hold the solution. They could waive the group phase income, putting the principle of being able to defend the trophy before extra profit. “You’re suggesting an honourable course from a modern football club?” asked a leading sports lawyer.

 

Liverpool would still make money from gate receipts and stand to make more by progressing beyond that group. Or they could make nothing by exclusion. The possibility has been talked about inside Uefa, but not yet proposed to Liverpool.

 

But with time pressing, and the draw for the first qualifying round due on June 24, Lars-Christer Olsson, the Uefa chief executive, is busy making the calls to the 14 members of the executive board who ultimately will decide. Uefa will at the same time seek to amend the ruling to ensure it is never caught in this dilemma again.

 

Johansson, Uefa’s president, reiterated: “The champions should defend the Champions League title. But I have to be democratic on this, to allow members’ voices to be heard. We must also follow our hearts, even if in my case it is partly run by a pacemaker.”

[Steve]

This is an unacceptable solution and we should tell them to fuck off. It'll do us more harm than good beginning competitive football in mid July,severely denting our Premiership ambitions. Its straight into the group stages or nothing as far as I'm concerned. UEFA should have the balls to tell the FA they fucked up and to overturn their original decision of nominating Everton, thus maintaining the precedent set with Real Madrid in 2000. I really dont give a fuck if it causes riots on the streets (David Moyes), it'll only reinforce the opinion that they shouldnt be given a chance.

[Tim]

“We caught ourselves out by not foreseeing a situation where the European Champions did not actually qualify for the following season by finishing high enough in their domestic league.”

 

Like hell they didn't foresee the situation. As you mention Steve there was a precedent to the situation. They haven't been caught out, they just don't want to make a decision.

 

Maybe UEFA should consider doing one thing if the above is their suggestion. They should let us sell our own TV and sponsorship rights for the group stage in that case. I am sure the tv companies would be lining up to show the defending champions on tv and to have the tv sponsorship rights.

[JER]

We've been fucked because of Barwick's red allegance - he's been so despaerate to appear impartial, he's forgotton to do what's right. Which is to make the bitters play in the 'B' cup.

[Captain]

We caught ourselves out by not foreseeing a situation where the European Champions did not actually qualify for the following season by finishing high enough in their domestic league.

 

Utter shite. Section 1.03 of the CL entry rules regulates this situation specifically, as we all know. The CL regultions by Uefa are crystal clear on this, they have indeed foreseen the situation. It has even happened once before when Real Madrid finished fifth and won the CL. Not foreseen my arse, this is fucking bullshit.

 

Liverpool would still make money from gate receipts and stand to make more by progressing beyond that group. Or they could make nothing by exclusion.

 

Is this a joke? In fact, it's so stupid it beggars belief. The alternative for our players isn't sitting on a sofa eating chips, it's playing in the Uefa cup ffs! :wallbutt:

[chorlton]

This is becoming annoying now, fuck the speculation let's wait for something concrete. Then we can see what happens. No receipts for the games is a joke though.

 

No offence to everton but if 2 live games are on at the same time, one with us one with everton, which would have higher viewing figures?

[Vincent Vega]

Does anyone else think the blues are in a big rush to get their summer spending done as soon as possible, so that in the event UEFA were to insist that we play in the CL instead of them, they'll turn round and cry "but we've spent all of this money in the knowledge that we were going to be playing CL football"?

 

Forest wouldn't have won 2 European Cups if the champions had been unable to defend their trophy, as has been the case for other teams too right from the very beginnings of the tournament when Real Madrid won the second ever European Cup only after qualifying as the Champions of Europe. There's the precedent in all it's glory.

 

I'd love us to refuse to play in any UEFA tournament or the FA cup if we do get fucked over on this.

[Kopite]

Personally I think the FA have been hugely arrogant over all this.

 

It seems to me they are trying to force UEFA into giving England five teams in the Champions League.

 

I think we'll be in (and in the group stages too) and the way the draw/coefficents work one has to say that in all likelihood the sh*te will end getting a fairly decent team with the end result they could be out.

 

You are right about Barwick though. Seems to be the lilkes of Moyes and Prentice have made it know about which team he support. Barwick is so desperate to not be accused of bias that he has given into the BS.

[bri]

We can bend time, space in theory and the laws of physics are often disproved. Probes on mars, man on the moon but fuck me sideways rules are rules with UEFA. Maybe we can get Steven hawkins to champion our case

[Red Nick]

Well its very encouraging, even if we have to start at the bottom at least we have a chance to be in it. howver what happens to our friendly games are we contractually liable to play

[BatChainPuller]

This is an unacceptable solution and we should tell them to fuck off. It'll do us more harm than good beginning competitive football in mid July,severely denting our Premiership ambitions.

 

Basically they're offering us a place in the Intertoto fucking Cup. Inter-tonto cup is nearer the mark.

[Steve]

Basically they're offering us a place in the Intertoto fucking Cup. Inter-tonto cup is nearer the mark.

There's be top away trips to places like Kazakhstan and Latvia though

[BatChainPuller]

There's be top away trips to places like Kazakhstan and Latvia though

 

It would add some spice - as you leave the ground you're issued with an AK47 and told to fight your way home. And Kewell could be included in the squad in case we needed hostages/human shields.

[bri]

agreed the maximum we should have to play is the same as last yr to qualify. Another 4 games that early in the season would ruin rafa's plans for the premiership, which we should be pushing for next yr

[AndyH]

Simple solution to this - we go in the group stages and Everton play Man Utd in the qualifiers. England only get 4 teams in the group stages, everyones a winner.

 

Yeah I know, you can't play a side from the same country that early, but why not change it? After all the champs always used to get in no questions asked.

[Paul]

I also read today that there was a Uefa meeting about this issue back in April and the FA representative did not bring up the Liverpool win from 5th place scenario quite deliberately in order to force Uefa to give England five places if it happened. This political scheming has apparently fucked off a number of the people who have to vote on the issue.

[Al Campbell]

Simple solution to this - we go in the group stages and Everton play Man Utd in the qualifiers. England only get 4 teams in the group stages, everyones a winner.

 

And that means the blues will definitely be able to support the team they love in the group stages.