ISIS - To Attack or Not?

[Anny Road]

2 minutes ago, jonnyp said:

She left to join, support and a play a role (no matter how small) in a murderous, hate fueled group’s ideology, that is opposed to her own home country’s way of life. A way of life she now wishes to embrace and shield her and her innocent unborn child. All without showing any remorse for her actions and even in admitting atrocities such as beheadings didn’t faze her, which radicalization or not, is not the sort of moral compass any society should be too welcoming of.

 

Saying I hate everything about you, would be happy to see your culture and way of life annihilated, whilst showing you zero compassion, room to negotiate or any mercy leaves little room for ambiguity. However, professing that as your raison d’etre, yet caveating it with a plea for understanding that certain aspects of my own choices aren’t working out, so could I have my NHS back please, could make many people raise an eyebrow.

 

Considering radicalisation, easy lead people and the human hope for second chances, none of which by the way are considerations that would be reciprocated, do we open our doors in the hope that people can change? Or will we simply be inviting a viper back into the fold?

 

The scales of justice viewing her appeal are not finely balanced due her own actions, recent statements and apparent self serving desires. Sadly any desire we may have to take a moral high ground, display a greater human understanding and level of forgiveness that would approach saintly, is sadly the very same way of life that they want to destroy.

 

It’s a conundrum.

 

 

Fine post.

[Dave D]

34 minutes ago, TK421 said:

And you know this how?  You don't think there may, in some instances, be some duress or other coercive measures involved?

I know this as to fly to Syria involves several physical acts that involve fairly clear choices.   

 

 

[Pureblood]

Just now, Dave D said:

I know this as to fly to Syria involves several physical acts that involve fairly clear choices.   

Yes, but you weren't talking specifically about Shamina Begum.  You said "every lunatic Jihadi".  

 

Moreover, how does a so-called "lunatic" (your word) make a series of clear choices?   

[deiseach]

6 minutes ago, jonnyp said:

It’s a conundrum.

It's not though, is it? She's a citizen and is entitled to the same level of protection as a football hooligan who smashes up a bar in Marbella or an old dear who gets mugged in Prague and has no money or ID. Although I'd imagine all you arbiters of decency are well able to distinguish between the deserving and the undeserving type of citizen. 

[Dave D]

4 minutes ago, TK421 said:

Yes, but you weren't talking specifically about Shamina Begum.  You said "every lunatic Jihadi".  

 

Moreover, how does a so-called "lunatic" (your word) make a series of clear choices?   

My word, for sure.

 

The lunatic bit comes in after they have made a series of very clear choices whilst of sound mind.

 

 

 

  

[Anny Road]

2 minutes ago, deiseach said:

It's not though, is it? She's a citizen and is entitled to the same level of protection as a football hooligan who smashes up a bar in Marbella or an old dear who gets mugged in Prague and has no money or ID. Although I'd imagine all you arbiters of decency are well able to distinguish between the deserving and the undeserving type of citizen. 

Not sure how you can equate the old lady and a member of a terrorist organisation. She is entitled to legal representation sure but should be hit with the full force of the law.

[Pureblood]

2 minutes ago, Dave D said:

The lunatic bit comes in after they have made a series of very clear choices whilst of sound mind.

That's just a word salad.

[Dave D]

4 minutes ago, TK421 said:

That's just a word salad.

Cheers

[jonnyp]

10 minutes ago, deiseach said:

It's not though, is it? She's a citizen and is entitled to the same level of protection as a football hooligan who smashes up a bar in Marbella or an old dear who gets mugged in Prague and has no money or ID. Although I'd imagine all you arbiters of decency are well able to distinguish between the deserving and the undeserving type of citizen. 

 

I thought the “It’s a conundrum” made it clear that it is indeed hard to distinguish the right course of action. My post certainly didn’t draw any conclusion on the matter, it merely highlighted some of what many will be considering. 

 

Don’t be so quick to penalize me for not aligning to your way of thinking, as the irony it would pose on a thread such as this may be lost on you.

[deiseach]

Just now, jonnyp said:

 

I thought the “It’s a conundrum” made it clear that it is indeed hard to distinguish the right course of action. My post certainly didn’t draw any conclusion on the matter, it merely highlighted some of what many will be considering. 

 

Don’t be so quick to penalize me for not aligning to your way of thinking, as the irony it would pose on a thread such as this may be lost on you.

You didn't draw any conclusion? I'll penalise you for engaging in weasel words. 

[Bjornebye]

36 minutes ago, jonnyp said:

She left to join, support and a play a role (no matter how small) in a murderous, hate fueled group’s ideology, that is opposed to her own home country’s way of life. A way of life she now wishes to embrace and shield her and her innocent unborn child. All without showing any remorse for her actions and even in admitting atrocities such as beheadings didn’t faze her, which radicalization or not, is not the sort of moral compass any society should be too welcoming of.

 

Saying I hate everything about you, would be happy to see your culture and way of life annihilated, whilst showing you zero compassion, room to negotiate or any mercy leaves little room for ambiguity. However, professing that as your raison d’etre, yet caveating it with a plea for understanding that certain aspects of my own choices aren’t working out, so could I have my NHS back please, could make many people raise an eyebrow.

 

Considering radicalisation, easy lead people and the human hope for second chances, none of which by the way are considerations that would be reciprocated, do we open our doors in the hope that people can change? Or will we simply be inviting a viper back into the fold?

 

The scales of justice viewing her appeal are not finely balanced due her own actions, recent statements and apparent self serving desires. Sadly any desire we may have to take a moral high ground, display a greater human understanding and level of forgiveness that would approach saintly, is sadly the very same way of life that they want to destroy.

 

It’s a conundrum.

 

 

[jonnyp]

9 minutes ago, deiseach said:

You didn't draw any conclusion? I'll penalise you for engaging in weasel words. 

 

Mate, it’s a tough one, especially with an unborn child involved.

 

Would you prefer it if I simply said, her name is an anagram of She Has A Minge Bum, deny her entry?

[Curly]

1 hour ago, TK421 said:

How do you know it wasn't her best option?  At the very least, it was one that appealed greatly to her because she went through with it.  Why?  

 

With regard to the Mosque bloke, I respect his rights enough to want to give him a fair trial with legal representation - the bare minimum he is entitled to in a civilised society.  It's very concerning that people want to send this young lady to jail without a trial, and in the case of iPlop to summarily execute her and her unborn child.  Not cool. 

Unless I’ve missed something, which is pretty possible, iPlop said “let them rot” as in leave them over there, not execute them.

 

Apologies if I’ve missed something, but there is a massive difference in those scenarios.

 

In regards to best option, fleeing the country and joining an extremist group who are hell bent on killing anyone who disagrees with their ideologies probably doesn’t even feature on a list of best options, in any circumstance. If she was in such peril, there are places she can go for help. If she was in such a bad situation, just walking into a police station would get her in the system for assistance.

 

”I need to get away”

”Why don’t you go to Magaluf for a week, get some space”

”No, I’m off to Syria to join ISIS and marry a stranger who will actively carry out terror attacks. That’s my best option at this point”

[Anny Road]

1 minute ago, belarus said:

Unless I’ve missed something, which is pretty possible, iPlop said “let them rot” as in leave them over there, not execute them.

 

Apologies if I’ve missed something, but there is a massive difference in those scenarios.

 

In regards to best option, fleeing the country and joining an extremist group who are hell bent on killing anyone who disagrees with their ideologies probably doesn’t even feature on a list of best options, in any circumstance. If she was in such peril, there are places she can go for help. If she was in such a bad situation, just walking into a police station would get her in the system for assistance.

 

”I need to get away”

”Why don’t you go to Magaluf for a week, get some space”

”No, I’m off to Syria to join ISIS and marry a stranger who will actively carry out terror attacks. That’s my best option at this point”

I did actually say I'd put a bullet in her as well to be fair.

[Pureblood]

3 minutes ago, belarus said:

Unless I’ve missed something, which is pretty possible, iPlop said “let them rot” as in leave them over there, not execute them.

 

Apologies if I’ve missed something, but there is a massive difference in those scenarios.

 

In regards to best option, fleeing the country and joining an extremist group who are hell bent on killing anyone who disagrees with their ideologies probably doesn’t even feature on a list of best options, in any circumstance. If she was in such peril, there are places she can go for help. If she was in such a bad situation, just walking into a police station would get her in the system for assistance.

 

”I need to get away”

”Why don’t you go to Magaluf for a week, get some space”

”No, I’m off to Syria to join ISIS and marry a stranger who will actively carry out terror attacks. That’s my best option at this point”

iPlop went on to say he would shoot her.

 

It was clearly an option that appealed to her greatly as she went through with it. 

[Curly]

25 minutes ago, Dave D said:

My word, for sure.

 

The lunatic bit comes in after they have made a series of very clear choices whilst of sound mind.

 

 

 

  

And shrugs at the sight of the severed head of a man who has different beliefs to her in a bin

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

Once you begin the begum....

[Curly]

5 minutes ago, TK421 said:

iPlop went on to say he would shoot her.

 

It was clearly an option that appealed to her greatly as she went through with it. 

Yeah, that’s my point - it was a choice. Not knee jerk either I wouldn’t imagine. And she still seems to be saying “I was right to do it, and still support it, but I want free healthcare for my unborn child”

 

Edit - apologies, genuinely missed that other bit

[Anny Road]

Maybe I'm a cunt i don't know but i have no sympathy or compassion for our enemies.

They have no desire to engage with us. They want me my wife and my children dead. That's fair enough they are entitled to their beliefs. Just as we are entitled to blow the back of their heads off before they get a chance.

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

1 minute ago, belarus said:

Unless I’ve missed something, which is pretty possible, iPlop said “let them rot” as in leave them over there, not execute them.

 

Apologies if I’ve missed something, but there is a massive difference in those scenarios.

 

In regards to best option, fleeing the country and joining an extremist group who are hell bent on killing anyone who disagrees with their ideologies probably doesn’t even feature on a list of best options, in any circumstance. If she was in such peril, there are places she can go for help. If she was in such a bad situation, just walking into a police station would get her in the system for assistance.

 

”I need to get away”

”Why don’t you go to Magaluf for a week, get some space”

”No, I’m off to Syria to join ISIS and marry a stranger who will actively carry out terror attacks. That’s my best option at this point”

We're all assuming again though. Who knows whether or not she was being told, possibly as an impressionable child, that all the stuff that she saw in the news was "made up western propaganda" and she was instead being sold a lie of a land of milk and honey, Muslims living peacefully and happily together, where she'd be respected, be away from any impure temptations etc? 

 

We know that she said that she wasn't fazed by what she witnessed etc, but that's a totally different thing to what she was told that it would be like where she was going. I think her comments on the head in the rubbish etc show that she's still under the influence of the radicalism fed to her. But, have a read up on it. They use different radicalisation tactics for different people, depending on their age, gender and other factors. I strongly believe that the "she knew what she was getting into" assumption might not be as clear cut as some are suggesting. 

[Bjornebye]

4 minutes ago, iPlop said:

Maybe I'm a cunt i don't know but i have no sympathy or compassion for our enemies.

They have no desire to engage with us. They want me my wife and my children dead. That's fair enough they are entitled to their beliefs. Just as we are entitled to blow the back of their heads off before they get a chance.

Just playing devils advocate here but doesn't that thought process make you just as bad as them? 

 

 

 

 

 

[Pureblood]

1 minute ago, belarus said:

Yeah, that’s my point - it was a choice. Not knee jerk either I wouldn’t imagine. And she still seems to be saying “I was right to do it, and still support it, but I want free healthcare for my unborn child”

I don't see anything wrong with her wanting to protect her child.

 

The other matters could be dealt with by charging her under the counter terrorism legislation, assuming there's enough evidence.  

[Anny Road]

Just now, Bjornebye said:

Just playing devils advocate here but doesn't that thought process make you just as bad as them? 

 

 

 

I'd aim to be worse. Kill every last one of them. They are beyond compassion.

[Anny Road]

Islamic State militants drove 600 Shia, Christian, and Yazidi male prisoners into the middle of the desert, lined them up along the edge of a ravine, and executed them at point blank range, according to a report by Human Rights Watch released Thursday.

The inmates, taken from a local prison, were forced to count themselves as they lined up before members of the jihadist militant group opened fire on them with machine guns.

Human Rights Watch says it spoke to nine survivors of the massacre. They told the organization they made it out alive by rolling into the ravine and pretending to be dead, or were shielded by the bodies of other prisoners who fell on top of them.

Agency France Presse confirms that these images were released by ISIS, and they appear to show a similar execution.

ISIS

Militants from the Islamic State (also known as ISIS or ISIL or Daesh) separated the group from more than 1,500 prisoners along religious and ethnic lines.

A survivor recounts an ISIS leader as saying "the Sunnis must stand on one side. The Shia, Kurds, and Yazidis must stand on the other. If I find out that a Shia is among the Sunnis, I'm going to cut off his head with a sheet of metal."

[moof]

Jesus Christ