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Dave D

FSG are not shit

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They got the club for a pittance and could afford to throw a couple of hundred million in while still being in profit given the value of the club.

 

I don't expect them to do that but I also don't expect us to be anywhere near a flat spend after 7 years. Anyway season ticket renewal is up in a few months so we should find out what our summer warchest is.

I looked at this a few months back, by my calcs, remember that this is up to 2016, so yes, revenues have gone up, but they had almost put in that couple of hundred you think they could afford to throw at us.

 

Realised I forgot capital expenditures, which is the general upkeep of buildings as well as the Main Stand redevelopment. Over this period, capex was £109m. Also didn't include interest paid on debt, which was another £15m.

 

So, £157m difference between what came in and what has been spent.

 

This was paid for with shareholder loans, £69m of which was converted into equity.

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He said Coutinho would be playing against city didn't he?

No. He said that Countinho and Salah aren’t available for Everton but ‘he thinks’ he should be in a group of players available to come back in for the City game. You’re reading headlines. But even if he did, that’s in no way the same thing.

 

But what’s the point, you’re intent on being negative as fuck. Have at it. I hope you enjoy yourself.

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He said Coutinho would be playing against city didn't he?

 

You were saying about having some drug people on another forum are talking about. Maybe you should if you are not getting basic facts right. How could he say he would be playing against City when he was injured. Oh thats right he was not it was a story put out by the player who had gone on strike to force a move or something.

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No. He said that Countinho and Salah aren’t available for Everton but ‘he thinks’ he should be in a group of players available to come back in for the City game. You’re reading headlines. But even if he did, that’s in no way the same thing.

 

But what’s the point, you’re intent on being negative as fuck. Have at it. I hope you enjoy yourself.

 

It's not negative it's just a sad fact of how things are under FSG! they spin things to deflect. My point was Klopp says lots of things to deflect as well though I like him but I don't like them. I'm hardly sat here wanking myself silly over FSG and their inept ownership.. I want us to win things and get back to the top it's just I feel under these it won't happen or will take a very long time with the least effort from them.

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You were saying about having some drug people on another forum are talking about. Maybe you should if you are not getting basic facts right. How could he say he would be playing against City when he was injured. Oh thats right he was not it was a story put out by the player who had gone on strike to force a move or something.

 

change could for would then, look dickhead I have said before Coutinho was a cock for the way he acted (he was still injured when he got to barca wasn't he? ). FFS you just sort of endorse my point that in the other thread the stories about the fee would of come from FSG and not thin air...

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change could for would then, look dickhead I have said before Coutinho was a cock for the way he acted (he was still injured when he got to barca wasn't he? ). FFS you just sort of endorse my point that in the other thread the stories about the fee would of come from FSG and not thin air...

 

You have been shown to be wrong and you go around calling people dickhead. You should quit while you are still in your hole.

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You have been shown to be wrong and you go around calling people dickhead. You should quit while you are still in your hole.

 

why what the fuck happens if I don't? here you go Dickhead some klopp quotes from the summer where Coutinho was being a dickhead too..

 

"Our goal is to have the best possible team. So we want to keep our guys and add new ones. That is our plan."

 

“Today, no player on the planet is untouchable. But a transfer is also a question of timing and if you have the opportunity and the need to react to such a transfer."

 

"From a financial standpoint, there is no price limit to let him go. No price at which we are ready to give in."

 

"Liverpool is not a club that has to sell players,” he said. “That is set in stone. So what they pay in the end doesn't matter."

 

But this isn't about Klopp quotes or Coutinho it is however about our club under FSG and they def seem to do the minimum yet want to charge the maximum and some dickheads like you seem to think that it's ok.

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So, is your issue with Klopp, who is making that call, or FSG for not overriding him?

False choice since they are both responsible for our success on the pitch. So both are to blame should we end this campaign without a trophy.

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Is net spend the key to winning or is overall outlay and making sure we get bang for our buck more important.

 

The former. Look at net spend charts for the Premier League, see how they correspond to success in recent years, and the overall strength of the squads for long term success.

 

Spending more > spending wisely. That is the sad reality of life.

 

Southampton spend wisely. Where are they in the table?

 

Spurs spend wisely. What have they won? What do you see them winning in the next 3, 5, 10 years?

 

Since Klopp has arrived, we have mostly spent wisely. In Mane and now Salah, we've had for two successive seasons some of the best signings in Europe in how they turned out. What have we won? What are our ambitions? We fight for top 4, exactly as we have last season.

 

City haven't spent wisely for years. Until Txiki Begeristain showed up and started laying the groundwork for Pep's arrival, they were fumbling around in the transfer market spending for the sake of it. They overpaid again and again. Crazy money for players who were just decent or good but not more than that, and big wages as well.

 

Where are they now? Well, money talked yeah? They spent and spent and spent and once their squad reached a certain threshold of quality they've started enjoying years of consistent domestic success. Leagues, cups, never missed out on top 4, the lot. Hasn't done shit for them in the CL but that's because it requires a decent manager with tactical nous and not just a great squad. All that spending has put their squad into a very good place though where it was perfectly positioned for Pep to come in and not have to overhaul it.

 

Utd will be the same story too I'd imagine. They've already picked up 3 trophies last season. They actually remind me a lot of City pre-Begeristain, it's almost mindless spending, just stocking up on star quality. But it'll do the job for some league titles here and there, CL qualification, until eventually they get rid of that terrible twat they've got for a manager and bring in their own Pep.

 

You gotta spend wisely sure. But no amount of wisdom will get us trophies with this level of spending. When you buy like, one player a season who goes straight into the first XI, with the rest being smaller signings for the squad and youngsters, and on top of that you sell your best player every 2 years like clockwork, it doesn't matter how good that Mane or Salah is. As we're seeing now.

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Capex wouldn’t normally include upkeep - that would be opex, but any new investment would be capex. I think you’re right overall.

 

I mean, I try to keep things fairly broad and general when discussing such things on here as company accounts can be confusing if you don't have any need to look at them.

 

But if you want to get deep...

 

Not normally, no. Capex is usually (not always) considered to be cash spent on physical assets, be that new investments or repairs/upkeep of existing assets. Opex is usually costs incurred through normal operations.

 

However, some capital intensive businesses, such as utilities (and you have worked with/for utilities in the past haven't you?), may consider upkeep and repairs to be part of their normal operations as their fixed asset base is so high, so they might be included in Opex for those types of businesses.

 

Anyway, lets get back on topic... FSG, cunts innit.

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The former. Look at net spend charts for the Premier League, see how they correspond to success in recent years, and the overall strength of the squads for long term success.

 

Spending more > spending wisely. That is the sad reality of life.

 

Southampton spend wisely. Where are they in the table?

 

Spurs spend wisely. What have they won? What do you see them winning in the next 3, 5, 10 years?

 

Since Klopp has arrived, we have mostly spent wisely. In Mane and now Salah, we've had for two successive seasons some of the best signings in Europe in how they turned out. What have we won? What are our ambitions? We fight for top 4, exactly as we have last season.

 

City haven't spent wisely for years. Until Txiki Begeristain showed up and started laying the groundwork for Pep's arrival, they were fumbling around in the transfer market spending for the sake of it. They overpaid again and again. Crazy money for players who were just decent or good but not more than that, and big wages as well.

 

Where are they now? Well, money talked yeah? They spent and spent and spent and once their squad reached a certain threshold of quality they've started enjoying years of consistent domestic success. Leagues, cups, never missed out on top 4, the lot. Hasn't done shit for them in the CL but that's because it requires a decent manager with tactical nous and not just a great squad. All that spending has put their squad into a very good place though where it was perfectly positioned for Pep to come in and not have to overhaul it.

 

Utd will be the same story too I'd imagine. They've already picked up 3 trophies last season. They actually remind me a lot of City pre-Begeristain, it's almost mindless spending, just stocking up on star quality. But it'll do the job for some league titles here and there, CL qualification, until eventually they get rid of that terrible twat they've got for a manager and bring in their own Pep.

 

You gotta spend wisely sure. But no amount of wisdom will get us trophies with this level of spending. When you buy like, one player a season who goes straight into the first XI, with the rest being smaller signings for the squad and youngsters, and on top of that you sell your best player every 2 years like clockwork, it doesn't matter how good that Mane or Salah is. As we're seeing now.

 

A very good post although I do not fully agree with your last paragraph. You can throw shitloads of money at a club and still not win. Spending wisely is the key. I consider Klopp is doing this now but it was never going to be an overnight job as many seem to think. Build it quick on shaky foundations and it will collapse just as quickly. Build it slower on better foundations and it will last ages.

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A very good post although I do not fully agree with your last paragraph. You can throw shitloads of money at a club and still not win. Spending wisely is the key. I consider Klopp is doing this now but it was never going to be an overnight job as many seem to think. Build it quick on shaky foundations and it will collapse just as quickly. Build it slower on better foundations and it will last ages.

 

I have 2 problems with this -

 

A - This is 9th richest football club in the world. You talk of a long term process, but how long are we talking here? By all accounts, we should have the financial clout to spend much more than we have under FSG. Not City, Utd and Chelsea levels of spending, but enough for us to not have to talk about five year plans and what not. Klopp has been here for over 2 years, if we'd spent properly in that time he'd have been in with a shout for the title at least.

 

B - This "foundations" talk is nice, here's the problem - you sell your foundations every 2 years. So really, we're not building anything, we're going in circles replacing our foundations instead of adding to them.

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Build it quick on shaky foundations and it will collapse just as quickly. Build it slower on better foundations and it will last ages.

Examples?

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I do know, because Klopp has said so. So the question remains.

And you think our Manager, or any Manager for that matter says exactly what he thinks and is 100% truthful in a press conference? It’s about managing the message.

 

There is no way he is going to say what he thinks cos the chances are that he will have to rely on this set of players for the rest of the season.

 

I really don’t like how these owners are, they like to project a picture of being strong owners but it’s all smoke and mirrors and they have friendly journo’s doing their bidding to get the correct message out.

 

We keep Coutinho last summer and they are portrayed as strong owners and all the narratives are about this, when in reality, in my opinion, we kept Coutinho because in the owners view, the asset ( Coutinho) had not been maximised in line with the market. If Barca had come in with a bid that FSG liked in the summer, he would have been gone I reckon.

 

Fast forward a couple of months and a better bid comes in. Where are these strong owners who want to win then? Counting the money? Now it’s the Managers decision all of a sudden.

 

They have a spreadsheet somewhere with everyone’s value in the market written on it and if that is reached, we will sell ( even mid season)

 

But these owners want to win?

 

Someone said a few pages back that there are 2 things a big club does.

 

1 pay what is necessary to get the players you need to be successful.

2 don’t sell your best players.

 

Do both of these at the same time and you build a club that wins shiny things and attracts better players.

 

Look at the mancs. I fucking hate them, however Sanchez will improve them. He’s 29 and financially it’s a fucking mental deal but it’s what they think is necessary. We won’t do it as FSG are too obsessed with value.

 

Sanchez will have little or no sell on value, but like Van Persie a few years ago, will improve them.

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A very good post although I do not fully agree with your last paragraph. You can throw shitloads of money at a club and still not win. Spending wisely is the key. I consider Klopp is doing this now but it was never going to be an overnight job as many seem to think. Build it quick on shaky foundations and it will collapse just as quickly. Build it slower on better foundations and it will last ages.

 

He's not spending at all, what a load of tosh. His best buys to date haven't even been his fucking first choice, or players he was even aware of,.

 

I'm sick of people dressing up our lack of activity as some fucking sage, protracted, intelligent, wise process that we're following.

 

If Klopp and our recruitment team and FSG are sooooooooo fucking clever and wise and careful, why the fuck did they not work to identify and secure targets months ago? What were they doing last summer? And the last 6 months? and hell, since every fucking transfer window before that? Why haven't we won a fucking thing in years? 

 

He's been here for over two years. When the fuck does he want to enact this great big clever plan that he has? I eagerly await us competing for honors next year...until it comes out that Salah or Mane or Firmino want to fuck off and we have to wait another cycle.

 

I've heard it too many times. I just don't fucking buy it anymore. If you're telling me, or any other Liverpool fan, to look at the state of this squad and consider our club to be 'wise', then you can jib off, cause you're talking fucking shit.

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Why are you (and lots of others) focusing on net outlay, though? I think that’s the question we need to ask ourselves. Is net spend the key to winning or is overall outlay and making sure we get bang for our buck more important. If purely winning is what’s important to you, net spend isn’t the only thing to look at and I’d argue it’s not the most important thing to look at.

 

I think it depends. We’ve sold 75 players under FSG. I’d argue that between 2-4 of them have been players we actually didn’t want to sell. We aren’t at the top of the food chain so, especially with South Americans, that can happen when one of the few clubs that can poach from us come in. Importantly, we got 540m for those 75 players. 340 of it was on just five players (Torres, Suarez, Sterling, Benteke, Coutinho).

 

The Coutinho income almost doubles the net spend. Net spend has fluctuated massively in the space of a week this window. It’s not the be all and end all. Once that money is spent again, it’ll go up. I’m much more concerned with us buying the right players with the money we spend. I don’t care if the money comes from donations from owners or from the sales of players we don’t want. I care about how much we have to spend, and how well it is spent. When our best player gets poached, we need to reinvest that money wisely.

 

Focusing on just net spend is simply a way to make everything look bleak. If you look at the signings under Klopp, it does not look bleak at all.

This is a very sensible way to look at it but the answer wont show up for a while yet. Klopp's transfer dealings have been pretty shrewd so far but questions will be asked in the long term dependent on if they are deemed successful or not. Biggest question will be 'Can we hold on to our best players or do they see it as a stepping stone?' Coutinho and possibly Can's situation make this a challenge. As Klopp said himself 'we need to make this a place where players want to come to and stay.'

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To answer the original question.......

 

Yes they are.

 

They are less shittier than past owners.

 

It's a sliding shit scale.

And for the first few years they lived off the fact that they are less shit. But they are shit nonetheless

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I do know, because Klopp has said so. So the question remains.

 

I'm sorry, I think you're actually trying to give a fairly balanced (if different) perspective on this, but this needed negging.

 

Not even you believed that as you wrote it out.

 

Before you respond, just please take a second to listen to Klopp's latest press conference: 

 

Warning! The following content is NOT WORK SAFE. Click the Show button to reveal.

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