Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[Rushies tash]

11 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

 

No it's OK I should've answered the other point. Cleverly is imo just sucking up to the Tory right wing nutjobs. Its a desperate ploy by a desperate party to give the impression they're controlling immigration. It's a bone headed decision by a bone headed government which will soon be proved to be boneheaded when a care system in desperate need of staff loses workers they cannot afford to lose  Its another example of a party which is split beyond repair. 

 

The care system had plenty of staff before, well, you know...

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/17/shortfall-of-330000-workers-in-uk-due-to-brexit-say-thinktanks

 

[Gnasher]

1 minute ago, Arniepie said:

because you said the immigration controls were nothing to do with brexit?

 

The government has always tried to impose Immigration contols, they are after all the government. Both Conservative and Labour. I remember  James Callaghan imposing a two tier immigration system. Immigration is an issue throughout Europe. Immigration has risen since we left the EU, So what?

 

 

The latest Cleverly nonsense has more to do with James Cleverly and the desicions of our government than anything or anyone else. The government must be accountable for desicions made. You can't simply blame everything on our non membership of the EU. 

[Gnasher]

17 minutes ago, Rushies tash said:

 

The care system had plenty of staff before, well, you know...

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/17/shortfall-of-330000-workers-in-uk-due-to-brexit-say-thinktanks

 

 

True. Bad planning by the government. They had the time to put a system in place, they didn't bother. A national living wage would have been a massive help. Welcoming workers from outside the EU would also have helped. This banning of workers families will not help at all. Reeks of desperation.

[bossy]

Or we could have stayed in the EU and had freedom of movement. For us along with other EU nationals. Well established travel links and systems.

 

On VAT, the minimum VAT rate when we were in the EU was 15% so we could have reduced it by 5%, and since 2022 EU members have greater control over the VAT rate they choose. There were always concessions toward individual countries who wanted to charge less VAT on certain goods. EU membership did not drive the VAT our government’s charge. Let’s hope the workers open their eyes eh and vote in a government that will reduce it…

[Gnasher]

I'm with the Barry Andrews.

 

Ursula Von der Nazi, the head of EU is a cunt. She's possibly one of the most evil people on this earth. 

 

https://www.rte.ie/news/2024/0403/1441536-barry-andrews-gaza/

 

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/05/ursula-von-der-leyen-markus-pieper-european-commission-president-re-election

 

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/05/spain-ireland-eu-critics-israel-warfare-gaza

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gnasher]

On 04/04/2024 at 12:59, TheHowieLama said:

Its another example of a party which is split beyond repair. 

 

 

One could say Brexit broke them.

 

Its exactly what broke them. Brexit has destroyed the Conservative party. We should give thanks to those who voted out. Otherwise its entirely feasible we could've still be governed by the likes of Cameron/Osborne/Duncan Smith. As they were in power in the ten years or so before we left the EU.  How'd that decade go?

[TheHowieLama]

17 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

We should give thanks to those who voted out.

 

We do.

 

Not sure about folks in the UK though.

[Gnasher]

 

 

 

 

She can fuck off, and all who sail with her. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gnasher]

9 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

 

We do.

 

Not sure about folks in the UK though.

 

Well gawd dang goodie for you

 

Man who's got the political choice of Genocide Joe and Trump taking the high note  You just gotta luv em.

[TheHowieLama]

2 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

 

Gawd dang goodie for you. 

 

Do you honestly believe there is anyone in the UK who thinks there was some strategic voting to oust the current gubmint by voting leave?

That's before we consider if anyone in the UK should thank you for it.

[Gnasher]

21 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

 

Do you honestly believe there is anyone in the UK who thinks there was some strategic voting to oust the current gubmint by voting leave?

That's before we consider if anyone in the UK should thank you for it.

 

Yep, loads and why shouldn't we thank anyone who's helped in the destruction of the Conservative Party, even if it was inadvertently. 

[Rushies tash]

5 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

 

Yep, loads and why shouldn't we thank anyone who's helped in the destruction of the Conservative Party, even if it was inadvertently. 

 

They were always going to eat themselves. It's what they do once the cash has gone. Not sure the post-Brexit state of the country (and the divided, angry population) is a price I'm happy paying.

[Gnasher]

20 minutes ago, Rushies tash said:

 

They were always going to eat themselves. It's what they do once the cash has gone. Not sure the post-Brexit state of the country (and the divided, angry population) is a price I'm happy paying.

 

They were an extremely strong political party for a hundred years or more.. They were an immovable object. Born to rule 

 

It needed an outside force to change the political status quo. Something seismic and Europe was it. Let's not forget, the dim-witted leader of the Tories only called that referendum because he thought a stay vote would shut out the far right cranks in his party for a generation. Which it probably would have. However the British public threw a great big monkey spanner into the works. The Tory machine went bannanas. The lunatics were let out of the asylum and was not a pretty sight. They're about to suffer their worst election defeat for a century, a large part of their forthcoming defeat will be down to Brexit. 

[Rushies tash]

13 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

 

They were an extremely strong political party for a hundred years or more.. They were an immovable object. Born to rule 

 

It needed an outside force to change the political status quo. Something seismic and Europe was it. Let's not forget, the dim-witted leader of the Tories only called that referendum because he thought a stay vote would shut out the far right cranks in his party for a generation. Which it probably would have. However the British public threw a great big monkey spanner into the works. The Tory machine went bannanas. The lunatics were let out of the asylum and was not a pretty sight. They're about to suffer their worst election defeat for a century, a large part of their forthcoming defeat will be down to Brexit. 

 

The right wing rags had been laying the foundations for Brexit for years with their nonsense about bendy bananas etc. Leave were always going to win - the referendum was just a formality.

[Kepler-186]

We live in a deeply divided country with huge inequalities, with a near enough city state in the south east with hollowed out major cities and towns elsewhere shorn of their industries, local services and yes their pride. 
 

Like Frank Sobotka says “we used to make shit”. 
 

Lots of places that voted Leave had literally been left behind. Cynical politicians are exploiting this to this day and are subverting what was a quieter, more subtle form of patriotism, and sense of community to get people riled up as deep down they know the days of well paid stable jobs are decreasing for the majority of citizens in many places.

 

Even if you have a good job in dat der London the commute and housing is a bitch. 

 

I’m not sure regional mayors are the answers. They both talk a good game in Liverpool and Manchester. 
 

I read Northamptonshire council ( Tory run) essentially privatised all its services. This will surely be the model in the future. 
 

Maybe it wasn’t such a great idea to flog everything off and stop having a coherent regional policy. 
 

Fucking Tory cunts. 

[Gnasher]

23 minutes ago, Rushies tash said:

 

The right wing rags had been laying the foundations for Brexit for years with their nonsense about bendy bananas etc. Leave were always going to win - the referendum was just a formality.

 

I thought leave would win but I'm not sure most did. I certainly wouldn't describe it as a formality.  Cameron had no choice to resign the day after, Osborne booted out not long after  

[TheHowieLama]

A new lobby group in the United Kingdom is calling for a universal basic income (UBI) for all British farmers amid concerns that government funding to primary producers in England, arranged in the wake of the UK’s departure from the European Union in 2020, are not fit for purpose.

Britain’s departure from the EU – also known as Brexit – has changed the farming landscape, say campaigners. They contend that farmers in England, the most populous of Britain’s four constituent nations and which makes up 53.4 percent of the UK’s total landmass, are getting a “raw deal” from the British government. Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, as devolved jurisdictions, would be responsible for implementing their own schemes.

 

Farmers like Alice Rixon, 27, a small vegetable farmer based in Dorset, southeast England, say a lifeline of the UBI kind is essential.

“It’s very difficult to make ends meet as a farmer within the UK at the moment as we import half our produce and farmers are often only seeing as little as 1 percent of the profit from the sale of produce,” Rixon said.

She added: “Brexit has impacted this further through the loss of important subsidies which many farmers had come to rely on as a means of income.”

 

[Jairzinho]

"Alice Rixon later added that, perhaps, in hindsight, voting Tory and for Brexit hadn't been a spectacularly good idea..."

[Gnasher]

18 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

"Alice Rixon later added that, perhaps, in hindsight, voting Tory and for Brexit hadn't been a spectacularly good idea..."

 

My heart bleeds. Not sure how I'll get over it. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jul/01/farm-subsidies-blatant-transfer-of-cash-to-rich

 

Oh well. I'm over it now. 

[Rushies tash]

4 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

 

My heart bleeds. Not sure how I'll get over it. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jul/01/farm-subsidies-blatant-transfer-of-cash-to-rich

 

Oh well. I'm over it now. 

 

That article states that the EU wanted to scale back these subsidies, but the UK (and Germany) vetoed it. So which is it - we could or could not govern ourselves while in the EU? I mean, blocking something the EU wanted to do seems pretty sovereign to me.

[Pidge]

26 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

 

My heart bleeds. Not sure how I'll get over it. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jul/01/farm-subsidies-blatant-transfer-of-cash-to-rich

 

Oh well. I'm over it now. 

The biggest claimant was always the prince of Wales. Don't know if he's still getting that cash with his new role...

 

But it doesn't change the fact that these payments are also vital to small holdings that have always been a big part of how the country (used to) feed itself. It's part of our economy that is quite deliberately being wiped out in favour of import markets that, again, primarily benefit the wealthy.

[Gnasher]

8 minutes ago, Pidge said:

The biggest claimant was always the prince of Wales. Don't know if he's still getting that cash with his new role...

 

But it doesn't change the fact that these payments are also vital to small holdings that have always been a big part of how the country (used to) feed itself. It's part of our economy that is quite deliberately being wiped out in favour of import markets that, again, primarily benefit the wealthy.

 

You're right. Charlie and the Queen were given pockets full of money for owning land. Unfortunate that the smaller needy farmers are now missing out but the reforms promised in the Monibot article from 2011 have proved pie in the sky. It's been a money making con for rich landowners. It still is. 

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/sep/29/the-queen-aristocrats-and-saudi-prince-among-recipients-of-eu-farm-subsidies

 

 

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/eu-farm-subsidies-central-eastern-europe-hungary-viktor-orban-populist-oligarch-a9183911.html

 

 

https://www.courthousenews.com/study-finds-billions-in-eu-farming-subsidies-are-being-misspent/

 

 

 

https://inews.co.uk/news/environment/britains-wealthiest-people-raking-in-millions-in-farm-subsidies-75927

 

 

 

https://theconversation.com/eu-subsidies-benefit-big-farms-while-underfunding-greener-and-poorer-plots-new-research-144880

 

 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2590332220303559

 

 

[Pidge]

I'm not reading all that to see what I already know. Current economic systems tend to benefit the already wealthy. No shit. 

 

Doesn't mean real people don't rely on them. 

[skend04]

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2024/apr/18/drug-shortages-normal-in-uk-made-worse-by-brexit-report-warns

 

Drug shortages, now normal in UK, made worse by Brexit, report warns

Some shortages are so serious they are imperilling the health and even lives of patients with serious illnesses, pharmacy bosses say.

 

Another benefit right there. Who needs medication right 

[etho]

It’s 8 years on now and it’s a traceable moment to 52 percent of the country voting to throw the country in the bin, for reasons they didn’t understand. I went to bed that night being sure common sense would prevail, and I remember getting the train to work in the morning feeling utterly devastated about it and what it was going to mean. The sooner we can reverse as much as this farce as possible the better