Is Rodgers becoming a laughing stock?

[Code]

Well yes, of course they would. But we're not competing for fourth, we don't have anything to play for, so get the ops out the way and have them back in time for preparations for next season. It's a total no-brainer.

 

I totally agree and I did not suggest otherwise.

[Cij]

I’ll nail my colours to the mast straight off – I believe Brendan Rodgers has done enough in his first season to justify his appointment and deserves our continued support. I am by no means blind to his shortcomings but, overall, I think he has arrested our decline and put us back on an upward trajectory. Last season’s cup success was fantastic but it is important to remember that we did not have Europe to contend with which meant far less games / travelling and renders a direct comparison almost impossible.

 

Firstly the negatives, Rodgers major signings last Summer – Borini, Sahin, Assaidi, and Allen – did not make a significant impact and it is therefore reasonable to suggest that the (not insignificant) transfer funds made available could have been spent more productively. It also appears that snap decisions were made on the usefulness of players like Henderson and Carroll (as it happens I agree with the decision to loan Andy out) without affording them much of an opportunity to impress. Henderson has made a telling contribution this season and yet he was alienated at times in favour of Joe Allen, who has struggled to adapt. Finally, I suspect Rodgers’ early use of younger players like Sterling, Suso, Shelvey and Wisdom was not exclusively motivated by ‘player development’ but rather designed to buy a bit of breathing space / justify erratic results as supporters are generally reluctant to be overly critical of home-grown talent.

 

Having said all that, Rodgers has successfully addressed our biggest shortcoming over the last few seasons and overseen a healthy increase in our goal scoring stats. This achievement is all the more impressive as it was accomplished against a backdrop of moving on Bellamy, Maxi, Kuyt, Carroll, Cole, Aquilani, and Adam – generally older players on big wages which should free up capacity in the squad for future signings. While Rodgers’ ‘personal’ transfer record is chequered, the signings of Sturridge and Coutinho for reasonable fees (following FSG’s introduction of the new scouting team) seem inspired. Hopefully we can finally break the cycle of big money flops which has blighted the club for 20 years. This Summer will reveal all and I am confident we will shun expensive, thoughtless signings like Ashley Williams despite the red tops’ uninformed bleating. The focus of Rodgers tinkering thus far has been on our attack and he has clearly generated impressive returns.

 

In addition, his coaching credentials are borne out by the improvement in the likes of Downing, Enrique, Henderson, Suarez, Gerrard, and even Reina (of late). The only player who has inexplicably regressed is Skrtel and all the signs point to him being on the way out. As other people will be heavily involved in identifying and purchasing new players in future, Rodgers is actually more of a ‘coach’ than a traditional English manager and all the indications are that he is capable of improving players on the training ground which bodes well. The training periodization employed in training has certainly had a positive impact on injuries to key players and helped us get a lot more from Gerrard, Agger and Johnson.

 

If we are going to challenge for the Champions’ League places next year our defence needs to drastically improve. This will be the acid test for Rodgers. So far he has not made a single defensive signing opting to make do with the available players in order to concentrate spending on our attack. Our defensive frailties need to be looked at in this context as we may simply lack players with the required characteristics to give effect to Rodgers’ plans. Carragher, Skrtel and Coates are all likely to leave which would prompt a big defensive revamp.

 

This change will have a huge influence on our ability to compete over the foreseeable future and I am apprehensive that we will get it very wrong. Rodgers’ appears to favour ‘ball playing’ defenders but the reality is the best teams in England have all employed physical behemoths – Ferdinand/Vidic, Kompany/Lescott, Terry/Carvalho, Campbell/Toure, Hendry/Berg. Unlike on the continent, English teams have to regularly contend with the likes of Stoke, Everton, West Ham, WBA, Aston Villa, Southampton etc. who rely upon a very direct, physical approach. Unfortunately since we lost Hyppia our centre backs are aerially and physically frail and we therefore frequently drop vital points to middle of the road sides. We need defenders who are robust and can deal with set pieces and win first balls - if they are gifted passers too that is all the better. Two quick, aerially dominant defenders who are comfortable defending one on one (as well as genuine defensive midfield cover for Lucas) will allow us push up our defensive line, employ a pressing game, and offer much more support to our forward players. This is the only way we will bridge the gap to the Top Four. Rumours of us scouting players like Alderweireld, De Vrij, and Tiago Ilori offer hope that we are going to cast the net far and wide in order to secure the right acquisitions rather than chasing flavors of the month like Williams.

 

FSG appear to have effectively put their preferred structure in place by stealth. Rodgers is principally responsible for coaching the team and others will have a large say in identifying targets, running the academy, negotiating contracts etc. Our setup is more along the lines of European clubs and personally I welcome us finally adopting a different strategy. The sale of Spearing, Carroll, Skrtel, Coates and the new TV money will give us the necessary funds to reshape our squad in the manager’s vision. It is going to be a very eventful Summer but I am definitely in the “glass half full” camp as I think the structures are finally in place for us to push on.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

I think I understand why Code is a bit mad.

 

He is John Wayne Bobbit.

 

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

This is where experience comes in and Rodgers doesnt have it(yet)

 

He certainly has experience in beating Liverpool in a boring 1-0 win.

[ChrisM]

I totally agree and I did not suggest otherwise.

 

It certainly seemed like you did, you implied that they were having their ops early so they could go on a lucrative money-spinning tour of Asia, as opposed to having them early to be totally fit and ready for pre-season.

 

But you've clarified that now, so fair do's.

[Code]

Code makes my blood boil quite frequently, but then gems like this reappear and I am not angry any more.

 

A footy shirt with smart kecks and Frankensteins shoes though?

 

Come on Code, I know that was the 90's but fuck me. Who did you model your style on?

 

The footy shirt just stayed on while we were doing the picture and our draft for a manager thing me and eight mates have been doing for years.

 

I'd never dream of going out in public like that, give me some credit here, those Camel boots were pretty ace at the time though.

[xerxes]

I think Rodgers best signings need to be off the field too and ditch his mates for some real experience and/or people with maybe a bit of attachment to the club. Although experience is my main criteria.

 

How true.

 

Young managers with promising PL debuts tend to come unstuck when things go wrong due to a lack of experience ( Burley at Ipswich, Brown at Hull, Gregory at Villa).

 

I am still backing Brendan. But I do worry that when things do go wrong,as they will, neither he, nor his team, have th experience to deal with it. We are relying upon him geting lucky ( again).

 

Losing Suarez for the first six games of the season, eighteen league points up for grabs, may already have cost us a CL berth.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

It certainly seemed like you did, you implied that they were having their ops early so they could go on a lucrative money-spinning tour of Asia, as opposed to having them early to be totally fit and ready for pre-season.

 

But you've clarified that now, so fair do's.

 

That is exactly what he said and meant.

 

Don' fall for his good looks and dress sense and let him convince you otherwise.

[Tony Moanero]

Code makes my blood boil quite frequently, but then gems like this reappear and I am not angry any more.

 

A footy shirt with fucking awful kecks and Frankensteins shoes though?

 

Come on Code, I know that was the 90's but fuck me. Who did you model your style on?

 

Corrected.

[Soleilrouge]

Well you're an idiot then.

 

If we assume that Borini and Allen do not improve (and I personally think that people are forgetting that Allen looked excellent in his first couple of months here) then there's little doubt that Rodgers' first transfer window here was a disaster. Indeed, had we got Sigurdsson and Dempsey it might have been even worse given that the money might not have been there for Sturridge and Coutinho in January.

 

I do not mean to act as though throwing £25 million away in our position (again, assuming Borini and Allen don't improve) is not hugely frustrating, but why is it wrong to give Rodgers some leeway given his relative lack of experience and where he came from? Until no more than a couple of weeks prior to joining us, Rodgers would have been scouting players for Swansea, not for Liverpool. Although he is evidently an extremely self-confident man, I am not at all surprised that he went for what he knew in his first transfer window. Kenny did it by buying British wherever possible, and at least (Dempsey aside) all Rodgers' targets were young, technically able players, unlike Hodgson's. If he is still buying players he knows that turn out not to be good enough in 12-18 months' time then fair enough, though even then you'd have to blame the whole structure rather than Rodgers alone.

 

The January transfer window was as good as the summer was bad. If we assume that Rodgers still has at least some input into transfers, how useless must the Inter heirarchy be to let Coutinho go? And given that many respected posters - and Code, too - felt he looked terrible, does that not show as good an eye for a player as Borini does bad?

 

 

Fabio Borini

 

A player he knew well and still bought him

[Whelan]

Fabio Borini

 

A player he knew well and still bought him

 

And we chased Charlie Adam after he went down with Blackpool -actually, we chased a 25 year old Charlie Adam after he went down with Blackpool. And Downing has been well documented and doesn't need to be brought up again, but £20m for an average player is relevant.

 

Against Borini who is 21, and just broken into the Italian National team (the one that reached the final) - scoring 11 goals for Roma in an injury hit season! Not really a fair comparison that one mate.

 

Borini has been injured for the majority of the season - we gave Caroll six months and last season to 'settle in' so it is only fair that the same treatment is given to other players.

 

By the way - I can add, Morientes, Zigge, Cisse, Pennant to that list - so it isn't manager specific.

[Code]

Why are people bringing up Charlie Adam, a player we got in for £6,75M, who helped us reach two finals and contributed his fair share with 8 assists and 3 goals in the league in 31 starts and then sold for £4M when our new manager had made it clear he did not feature in his plans for some reason.

 

Sticking with Adam instead of getting that useless J.Allen in for £16M and spent our money elsewhere would have been a much better move and our season might not have been a fuckin disaster from start to finish.

 

But hey ho, lets try to bring Adam into the argument just to inflate the money we are talking about.

 

Charlie Adam was no world beater but when it comes to our worst signings for money the last 15 years he'd be below nr 100 on the list.

 

Fucking deluded smalltime pricks.

[Major Tom]

Charlie Adam was no world beater but when it comes to our worst signings for money the last 15 years he'd be below 100.

 

Can you list the 100 worst signings of the last 15 years? In order. With stats.

 

Thanks

[boomer39]

Its more unlucky for the club than me.

well in my case ... the club is ME... always has and always will be...

[Gym Beglin]

Code is dim as fuck.

 

And, as much as I loved beating Cardiff on pens, just, I fucking hated losing to Chelsea, badly, in a Cup Final.

 

Wigan and Swansea in domestic cup finals this year, tells you just about everything you need to know about how fucking important they are for a top club now.

 

Code, I cringe when I see your name in this thread. Keep on campaigning for a new manager, it's always the solution isnt it, sack and appoint, sack and appoint, spunk money on paying him off, spend money on new idea, sack him, spunk money on paying him off, appoint new manager, spend money on new idea, sack him, spunk money on paying him off, appoint new manager...we've done this 9 times in the last 20 years you fucking trebuchet blert, draw me a fucking graph about our league performances from 1990 to the present day and show me the correlation between new manager and winning the league or winning the European Cup. It fucking almost peaks around Rafa's time doesn't it, DOESN'T IT YOU CUNT-TUH.

[boomer39]

I said I did not think that was the case.

 

But how about the club now deciding to let Agger and Gerrard having operations so they can be ready for our pre-season tour in Asia instead of playing the last two legaue games, where does this fit in with your description above?

they are getting ready for NEXT season, fuckwit....

[Whelan]

Can you list the 100 worst signings of the last 15 years? In order. With stats.

 

Thanks

 

That works out at 6.6 per year! So rounding up, we have signed 7 players a year worse than Charlie Adam!

[Code]

well in my case ... the club is ME... always has and always will be...

 

My ego obviously is a bit smaller than yours mate.

[Jairzinho]

That works out at 6.6 per year! So rounding up, we have signed 7 players a year worse than Charlie Adam!

 

I can guess who signed most of them.

[Code]

That works out at 6.6 per year! So rounding up, we have signed 7 players a year worse than Charlie Adam!

 

Below 100 does not mean 101, Rafa for instance signed around 10 players worse than Adam every season.

[Code]

they are getting ready for NEXT season, fuckwit....

 

Being old might be good, being senile is not.

[Whelan]

I can guess who signed most of them.

 

It won't be 7 a year obviously, as in 2001-02 we only signed Riise, but that would mean another year we must have signed over 10 shit players! In 2004 we signed Nunez, Cisse, Garcia, Morientes, Pelligrini and Alonso - now we know Alonso isn't one of them!

 

Statistically the numbers don't make sense. Which is usually the case when idiots present arguments.

[Soleilrouge]

And we chased Charlie Adam after he went down with Blackpool -actually, we chased a 25 year old Charlie Adam after he went down with Blackpool. And Downing has been well documented and doesn't need to be brought up again, but £20m for an average player is relevant.

 

Against Borini who is 21, and just broken into the Italian National team (the one that reached the final) - scoring 11 goals for Roma in an injury hit season! Not really a fair comparison that one mate.

 

Borini has been injured for the majority of the season - we gave Caroll six months and last season to 'settle in' so it is only fair that the same treatment is given to other players.

 

By the way - I can add, Morientes, Zigge, Cisse, Pennant to that list - so it isn't manager specific.

 

 

 

You seem to be claiming either that Boini is or will be a good player when all the direct evidence of him in a Liverpool shirt suggests he will struggle even to be an average player.

 

You then somehow seem to be justifying his acquisition on the basis that we have bought other averageplayers and as they have been given a chance then he should. I wont even respond to that.

 

What I will say though is that you have thoroughly misunderstood the point - he is not good, he cost a lot of money and he has been bought by a so-called football manager who had worked with him in the past and who has little or no excuse for misjudging his abilities other than that he lacks judgement in assessing footballer's abilities.

[Gym Beglin]

Whoever is knocking Borini, fucking stop.

 

Behave yourself. He's been injured, unlucky injured as well. Knock it on the head and go gloat in the Moyes thread.

[boomer39]

My ego obviously is a bit smaller than yours mate.

no, idiot, my love for the club is greater than anything you can imagine...