Early thoughts on Rodgers

[Anny Road]

bottom line is the team is underperforming, thats always a problem that the manager will have to answer for eventually.

 

Are we under performing though. Difficult to come to that conclusion after a doz games given how poor our squad is.

[Whelan]

Once again showed yesterday that he isn't afraid of changing the system when he realises it isn't working. Reverting back to 442 (or whatever you'd call the second formation we changed to) changed the game in our favour and meant that both Gerrard and Allen had more time on the ball in centre midfield and instantly started playing better.

 

Exactly - criticised by some for being dogmatic, yet those same critics just shrug and refuse to acknowledge this fact and pick on something else instead.

[Code]

I love how getting something totally wrong in the first place and then actually trying to change it is spinned into something positive and special instead of what it actually is, the fuckin obvious thing to do.

[Anny Road]

I love how getting something totally wrong in the first place and then actually trying to change it is spinned into something positive and special instead of what it actually is, the fuckin obvious thing to do.

 

Nonsense. His pragmatism is a massive positive. Kenny for instance insisted on starting Downing and henderson for almost all of last season when their form and confidence were obviously shot. Refusal to adapt can be a massive problem.

[Nightcat]

We continue our regression in the defensive side of our game. We were really lucky yesterday, Chelsea, misfired a few good chances and Jones saved some two.

 

We've still got Carra and I think the idea of adding him in the coaching stuff to offer his defensive expertise on the back of his experiences with Evans, Houllier, Hyppia, Rafa, Kenny, is an excellent one. It's not my idea, it was expressed by someone in the previous page.

 

Overall, I was never a fan of 4-3-3. It worked for teams like Bolton, but never for top flight football in the Premier League. So I'm not sure.

 

Rodgers seems to have started putting some pressure for some additions to the squad which is a positive sign.

 

Edit: He needs to give a chance to Enrique and Henderson.

[Code]

Nonsense. His pragmatism is a massive positive. Kenny for instance insisted on starting Downing and henderson for almost all of last season when their form and confidence were obviously shot. Refusal to adapt can be a massive problem.

 

His what, pragmatism? Are you having a fuckin laugh?

[Lightforce]

It would be fantastic for Rodgers.

As that would be his highest ever league placing.

 

That made me laugh.

 

Coming out with "this is the reality at Liverpool" is getting into dangerous Hodgson territory.

 

I agree in a way but I would argue it's actually slap-bang in the middle of Hodgson territory.

[Anny Road]

His what, pragmatism? Are you having a fuckin laugh?

pragmatic [prægˈmætɪk]

adj

1. advocating behaviour that is dictated more by practical consequences than by theory or dogma

 

 

Code your just being a negative twat.

So changing things around because they are not working is somehow a bad thing.

Do you apply this same logic to other mangers. What a tit that Benitez was switching it in Istabul eh.

[Christian]

I'm still undecided, and far from convinced that BR has what it takes, but Code you are getting totally bonkers now!

Fair play that Rodgers switched the system - we dominated the last 30 minutes and fully deserved that point against a good side*

 

* albeit a side who I think can do a lot better than Di Matteo

[Lightforce]

It's not the ideal scenario mate I hope we win everything. I will however not be wanting Rodgers sacked when we win nothing and finish 10th. I am being realistic seeing as we are relying on kids mainly.

 

Relying on kids? Is that serious? Jones, Carragher, Agger, Enrique, Johnson, Gerrard, Sahin, Suarez, Allen (young but not a kid), that's 9 out of the 11 over 21 starting yesterday, 8 way over 21.

[Whelan]

We continue our regression in the defensive side of our game. We were really lucky yesterday, Chelsea, misfired a few good chances and Jones saved some two.

 

Bollocks! Do you say the same thing about us? How unlucky we were because we misfired a few chances? No you don't you focus on the negative.

 

 

Overall, I was never a fan of 4-3-3. It worked for teams like Bolton, but never for top flight football in the Premier League. So I'm not sure.

 

Yeah just ignore Chelsea! Doesn't suit the argument, so ignore it.

[Whelan]

pragmatic [prægˈmætɪk]

adj

1. advocating behaviour that is dictated more by practical consequences than by theory or dogma

 

 

Code your just being a negative twat.

So changing things around because they are not working is somehow a bad thing.

Do you apply this same logic to other mangers. What a tit that Benitez was switching it in Istabul eh.

 

He isn't, he is getting exactly what he wants - which is a reaction. He is posting for no other reason than to see how many people he can wind up.

[Anny Road]

Relying on kids? Is that serious? Jones, Carragher, Agger, Enrique, Johnson, Gerrard, Sahin, Suarez, Allen (young but not a kid), that's 9 out of the 11 over 21 starting yesterday, 8 way over 21.

 

Wisdom, Sterling, Suso is 1/4 of the team. Away to the European champons.

Tough ask I'd say.

[Soleilrouge]

The relaity is we should have lost heavily yesterday were it not for Chelsea continuously shooting themselves in the foot

[Anny Road]

The relaity is we should have lost heavily yesterday were it not for Chelsea continuously shooting themselves in the foot

Using the same logic mate we should have won the league last year. That's football.

[Code]

 

Code your just being a negative twat.

So changing things around because they are not working is somehow a bad thing.

Do you apply this same logic to other mangers. What a tit that Benitez was switching it in Istabul eh.

 

I'm not saying its a bad thing to change something thats not working, thats the only natural thing to do, so why should I praise that?

 

The bad thing is to get it wrong the first place, the same thing happened in the derby, we got it totally wrong from the start and it masde our chances of winning the game more difficult, just like this weekend.

 

Why people feel the need to praise someone for doing the fuckin obvious I'll never know.

[bouncebrigade]

James Lawton in today's Independent. Love him or hate him (Lawton that is), I think it's a very fair assessment of Rodgers so far.

 

"The weekend was supposed to be about indomitable United, defiant City and a Chelsea team winning back at least a little of the authority you associate with European champions. It was shaping up as a re-statement of some pretty well established power.

Yet who is so unmindful of those currents in football that spring up with arresting force on the most unlikely of occasions that they could ignore the significance of Liverpool's latest declaration that they, too, are on the mend?

It may be a long job and one ultimately decided by the willingness of their American management to back seriously the vision and the nerve of their young manager Brendan Rodgers, but in the meantime there is no reason to ignore the force of his team's recovery at Stamford Bridge yesterday. For some time Rodgers, despite a run of unbeaten Premier League games, seemed to be still locked in impossible odds against a team for whom the midfield axis of Juan Mata, Oscar, Eden Hazard and Ramires is promising new levels of superior touch and coherence. But then something remarkable happened. Liverpool, buoyed by another strike from – who else? – Luis Suarez, not only started to play immeasurably better football; they also looked distinctly like, well, Liverpool.

A Liverpool from a somewhat different age, that is. A Liverpool who could create authentic momentum and who on this day, which had for some time threatened a discouraging descent into futility, had more than the extraordinary Suarez to conjure a little belief in a brighter future.

Steven Gerrard, passing milestones of longevity as he anticipates his arrival in England's club of centurion cap winners, found again moments of striking influence. Raheem Sterling's startling precocity has rarely looked so securely moored to a remarkably old head. Jose Enrique supplied width and craft as the course of the match switched sharply in Liverpool's direction – and if this was just possibly a crossroads for the Rodgers project, who better bravely to signpost new possibilities than the near superannuated hero Jamie Carragher?

His flick on from the impressive substitute Suso's corner re-lit some old Liverpool fire as Suarez detached himself utterly from the Chelsea cover. As a piece of gnarled but brilliantly marshalled old pro savvy it almost rivalled the supreme example provided by John Terry.

Extraordinary, isn't it, this ability of Terry and Suarez so regularly to produce moments which, for some time at least, put on hold on the contortions normally involved in any positive assessment of their contributions to English football.

Their redemption is the one that often persuades their managers to pull down a veil on the worst of their excesses. Kenny Dalglish carried himself to managerial oblivion partly because of his unshakeable loyalty to the controversial, and sometimes appalling, Uruguayan, and if Roberto Di Matteo is at all ambivalent about Terry's place in Chelsea's future it is doubtful if the Spanish Inquisition could have persuaded him to say an unkind word about the club's captain.

It is hardly a mystery – not when Terry comes back from his four-match ban and Di Matteo's decision to leave him out of last week's ordeal of fire against Shakhtar Donetsk with a predatory masterpiece at a corner. It was as much as anything a professional mugging. Branislav Ivanovic tied up Daniel Agger so comprehensively he failed only to apply handcuffs, then Terry stole into the empty space to send a superb header past Brad Jones in the Liverpool goal.

Among the Chelsea faithful there was, inevitably, adoration which was compounded when he was carried off the field after a gut-wrenching collision with Suarez. There, in a moment, was a physical expression of all kinds of football fear and loathing – and dogged admiration for the best qualities of these players: Terry, at first howling with pain, then stretching out a knee that there was reason at first to fear had been shattered, and Suarez, unequivocally innocent in this affair, standing over him with his face a picture of, if not compassion, then genuine concern.

With Gary Cahill in Terry's place and the Chelsea midfielders beginning to ripple pleasingly, it seemed like nothing more than a re-assertion of that Premier League power complex, with Chelsea, surely, moving to within a point of United after the victorious escape from a punishing sentence against Shakhtar.

Yet Rodgers was not easily discouraged. He sent on the vibrant young Spaniard Suso, re-shaped his back-five formation, and Liverpool were once against impressively competitive. Suarez scored his sixth goal in six Premier League games and suddenly he found sources of unusual support.

Rodgers warmly applauded his players at the end, as well he might have done. He is a young manager engaging in a huge task of renewal – and he is doing it extremely well."

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

It's good to see somebody recognise the task he has.

[moof]

I'm not saying its a bad thing to change something thats not working, thats the only natural thing to do, so why should I praise that?

 

The bad thing is to get it wrong the first place, the same thing happened in the derby, we got it totally wrong from the start and it masde our chances of winning the game more difficult, just like this weekend.

 

Why people feel the need to praise someone for doing the fuckin obvious I'll never know.

 

I'd feel the need to praise whoever puts you out of your misery, even though it's the obvious thing to do!

[Anny Road]

I'm not saying its a bad thing to change something thats not working, thats the only natural thing to do, so why should I praise that?

 

The bad thing is to get it wrong the first place, the same thing happened in the derby, we got it totally wrong from the start and it masde our chances of winning the game more difficult, just like this weekend.

 

Why people feel the need to praise someone for doing the fuckin obvious I'll never know.

Some managers will simply persist with what was the first tactic refusing to acknowledge the initial failings. God knows our team has seen this under several bosses.

I was thinking that this could be something Rodgers has picked up from watching others. The likes of Mourinho would regularly throw on three subs and change the course of a game. How may times did we plead Rafa to do the same rather than persist till the 70th odd minute. Recognising failings is a positive characteristic

[Code]

We made one sub yesterday after a shockingly bad first half, we were crying for a change at half time and nothing happened until the 60th minute.

 

When we changed formation why persists with the hapless Enrique who is useless going forward and was useless going forward yesterday as well.?

 

Why not try at least a second sub?

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Enrique was our best player yesterday, and put Suarez through for what should have been the winner.

[Il Fenomeno]

I'm not saying its a bad thing to change something thats not working, thats the only natural thing to do, so why should I praise that?

 

The bad thing is to get it wrong the first place, the same thing happened in the derby, we got it totally wrong from the start and it masde our chances of winning the game more difficult, just like this weekend.

 

Why people feel the need to praise someone for doing the fuckin obvious I'll never know.

 

How did he get it wrong in the derby? We went 2-0 up. Our only problem was that Brad Jones made a mistake and we conceded a goal too early after going ahead. If we'd kept them out for a little longer it would've subdued them and the crowd and we'd probably have gone on to win the game easily.

[piscinin]

I'm not saying its a bad thing to change something thats not working, thats the only natural thing to do, so why should I praise that?

 

Forget praise, at least express relief that despite his soundbites that suggested he was going to be a hard-core idealist, he's come around. That much is good. There's plenty ways to go. But the first step is always to admit you have a problem.

[Code]

Enrique was our best player yesterday, and put Suarez through for what should have been the winner.

 

Far from it, but you go on and think that if it makes you happy.

 

Are you talking about the overhit pass that Cech cleared?