Kop Faithful update on the stadium issue and Anfield Regeneration

[Guest ShoePiss]

When Ayre first gave us the long-awaited update, he said that the income from both options was 'roughly equal' - his words.

 

There is only so much 'hospitality' the public will buy. The club knows that a lot of people will not spend a lot of money at the game. It also knows that there's a sizeable chunk who will. Personally I wouldn't go to the Kop for a three-course meal.

 

Enough hospitality to satisfy demand can be accommodated in the ground. The existing sections can themselves be both upgraded and extended.

 

It's a rule of thumb but it works - that about 10%-12% of capacity generates about 50% of income. Yes, the remaining 88% or so needs to be well served but not to the same degree.

 

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Incredibly short sighted, the facilities in the kop and the centenary are pathetic and need expanding if it's going to serve us for 30 years or whatever the lifespan of a redev is. Roughly the same based on what? Do they know how many people don't bother pre-game / half time because the food and beer is shite and the queues are pathetic?

 

With ffp we need to maximise revenues, theres a lot of work to be done on matchday revenues.

[redasever]

For the benefit of the broader TLW readership.....

 

I hope you’ve read my response to your personal and professional insults. I won’t go over them again here...

 

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The coherence of Ayre’s argument is substantiated by the figures. To ignore the latter to criticise the former is meaningless. You said what he said didn’t make sense. You said it was not his finest hour.

 

Either a reasoned assessment of the figures would prove him right or your ‘lack of figures’ makes your criticism wrong.

 

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A redeveloped anfield (whether two stands only or not) can accommodate commercial revenue to the level required.

 

Indeed rather more. A knowledge of the building type would tell you that ‘enhanced’ facilities are needed for in the order of 10% to 12% of capacity (including box seats). These would be expect to generate in the order of 50% of income.

 

This would be about 7,200 in a 60k stadium or the addition of facilities for approx 4,500. Well within the scope of just one stand.

 

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There are many ways to skin the additional revenue under FFP cat and it need not be in the form currently envisaged. You know that. I know that.

 

To suggest that Anfield Plaza has a capital value as an asset to borrow against as a meaningful input to a business with the assets of Liverpool Football Club is... wishful thinking.

 

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HMRI was created for the sole purpose of creating housing for people who could not otherwise afford a property in the open market. It is not affordable housing, it is subsidised housing.

 

A reasonable test of whether people who live there can afford it is to look at whether they could afford to move to similar premises in the private sector.

 

Either they would not or they are not really the people for which HMRI was meant.

 

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Subsidised properties sold to a Housing Association can only be sold or rented on at the rates within the rules as they stand. In the absence of funding from HMRI (government having effectively abolished it), the value of these properties to the club would be exceptionally small beer indeed, or the properties unaffordable.

 

As noted, the area is on its arse. Is there a private sector in the area? Where is the market for it?

 

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You can visit the council website to look at the regeneration plans for the area. I have no need to speak for them.

 

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No-one is taking about an increase of 10,000 capacity but you and if you don’t like or trust FSG, that’s your business.

 

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Edited October 11, 2011 by redasever

[redasever]

Incredibly short sighted, the facilities in the kop and the centenary are pathetic and need expanding if it's going to serve us for 30 years or whatever the lifespan of a redev is. Roughly the same based on what? Do they know how many people don't bother pre-game / half time because the food and beer is shite and the queues are pathetic?

 

With ffp we need to maximise revenues, theres a lot of work to be done on matchday revenues.

 

Not really - just realistic. See above two posts. There's no point in having more than you need. That'd be just throwing money away.

 

The real reason many won't spend in the ground is because they don't want to spend £3 on a pie. You need to charge £3 a pie to make any headway on the costs.

 

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[Guest ShoePiss]

The pricing is what it is is because people are willing to pay it, hence the queues. Not because they have to.

[redasever]

The pricing is what it is is because people are willing to pay it, hence the queues. Not because they have to.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think the club could think more laterally on it. But not by just providing more of the same - I think the pub culture is too strong - more along the lines of 'pubs' within the ground.

 

Areas where the same guys come together each home game, don't have to dash off to the match and can see interviews and replays straight after.

 

The current design of the kop 'concessions' for example is all about lots of and fast (-ish). There's a surprising amount of space at upper levels and in The Albert Corner - perhaps even links into the Albert (but then a certain amount of smuggling might go on...) or pubs and bars in the cleared land there. A deliverable and worthwhile element of the Anfield Plaza.

 

But it's not the same market as the three-course dinner and bottle of wine, networking lounges and private dining rooms.

 

And its not core to the ground financial feasibility.

 

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Edited October 11, 2011 by redasever

[Tepid water]

Don't get me wrong, I think the club could think more laterally on it. But not by just providing more of the same - I think the pub culture is too strong - more along the lines of 'pubs' within the ground.

 

Areas where the same guys come together each home game, don't have to dash off to the match and can see interviews and replays straight after.

 

The current design of the kop 'concessions' for example is all about lots of and fast (-ish). There's a surprising amount of space at upper levels and in The Albert Corner - perhaps even links into the Albert (but then a certain amount of smuggling might go on...) or pubs and bars in the cleared land there. A deliverable and worthwhile element of the Anfield Plaza.

 

But it's not the same market as the three-course dinner and bottle of wine, networking lounges and private dining rooms.

 

And its not core to the ground financial feasibility.

 

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True, but it could greatly enhance the match experience and that's important too.

[Dougie Do'ins]

Ian Ayre has just given a very in depth interview on Radio Merseyside. The first part focused on the end of the H&G era and life at LFC since they've gone. The second part focused mainly on the stadium issue where I believe he let something slip about the timing.

 

The interviewer asked just about every question you'd expect, yet surprisingly there was no mention of ground share.

 

It's not on the listen again yet but when It is I will post the link. Well worth a listen.

[The Special One]

What is it you think he let slip Mick?

[Dougie Do'ins]

What is it you think he let slip Mick?

The words "matter of months" were said. I took this as meaning there will be some news in a matter of months but you can draw your own conclusions.

[Guest ShoePiss]

Don't get me wrong, I think the club could think more laterally on it. But not by just providing more of the same - I think the pub culture is too strong - more along the lines of 'pubs' within the ground.

 

Areas where the same guys come together each home game, don't have to dash off to the match and can see interviews and replays straight after.

 

The current design of the kop 'concessions' for example is all about lots of and fast (-ish). There's a surprising amount of space at upper levels and in The Albert Corner - perhaps even links into the Albert (but then a certain amount of smuggling might go on...) or pubs and bars in the cleared land there. A deliverable and worthwhile element of the Anfield Plaza.

 

But it's not the same market as the three-course dinner and bottle of wine, networking lounges and private dining rooms.

 

And its not core to the ground financial feasibility.

 

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My only concerned with a redevelopment is leaving the centenary and kop as is, if it includes some of your suggestions that's great. Basically I don't want to see us ignore potential revenue increases. I disagree that just having a new Anny road and main stand plugs all the gaps. There's extra revenue to be made from improving the centenary and kop ends.

[redasever]

My only concerned with a redevelopment is leaving the centenary and kop as is, if it includes some of your suggestions that's great. Basically I don't want to see us ignore potential revenue increases. I disagree that just having a new Anny road and main stand plugs all the gaps. There's extra revenue to be made from improving the centenary and kop ends.

 

There's yards of space behind the centenary at the right level to extend the hospitality backwards without affecting the properties on Skerries. There's also the big undercroft at low level at the back of the lower centenary.

 

Probably too much.

 

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[Guest alantkayll]

My only concerned with a redevelopment is leaving the centenary and kop as is, if it includes some of your suggestions that's great. Basically I don't want to see us ignore potential revenue increases. I disagree that just having a new Anny road and main stand plugs all the gaps. There's extra revenue to be made from improving the centenary and kop ends.

 

The plans for a redeveloped Anfield will see fans being able to walk around the whole underneath. The main stand and Anfield road will have so of the top names in food and beer being served. The Kop will under go some change as well. Away fans will be moved over to the centenary side like the old days.

 

Also the food court outside is to come back under the clubs wing bringing in better food and drink at reasonable prices. I'll look forward to the Guiness truck.

[Antynwa]

The plans for a redeveloped Anfield will see fans being able to walk around the whole underneath. The main stand and Anfield road will have so of the top names in food and beer being served. The Kop will under go some change as well. Away fans will be moved over to the centenary side like the old days.

 

Also the food court outside is to come back under the clubs wing bringing in better food and drink at reasonable prices. I'll look forward to the Guiness truck.

 

Presuming this means the Main Stand is going down?

[The Special One]

Thanks Mick.

[redasever]

Presuming this means the Main Stand is going down?

 

From what I can gather yes, but not necessarily so...

 

 

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[xerxes]

I would be interested to know how other forumistas see the announcement by Ayres that we want to pursue individual tv rights for deals abroad affecting the stadium issue.

 

If there is money there you can bet that it will happen at some point. To what extent this offers a competitive advantage over our key competitors is less certain.

 

Our “brand awareness” (history) is significant, our recent honours performance is not. Global TV audiences want to watch winners. Like with the CL ,great when you are on the inside looking out, not so good when you are on the outside looking in. A disproportionate amount of far east interest is from the under 25’s, who will be unaware of our history. Equally to capitalise on that market if you are not winning things, you have to include foreign players from specific territories to boost audiences, which may not be in the best interests of the team

 

FSG will see this as “free money” , which is true, but possibly at the expense of stadium development. As an FSG investment enhancer it is a no-brainer, as a substantive step in developing LFC it is a gamble.

 

Glazer and G&H always saw global tv money as the real growth opportunity. FSG with Werner, a serious media broker in his own right are well tooled up to take this on. However if this is advanced at the expense of a stadium resolution that also makes us competitive, we could end up with the worst of all worlds, a second rate stadium and watching the Mancs coining it in.

[PestiRed]

Slightly disagree that stadium development would suffer if FSG pursue more TV money (I think that's what you're getting at?). They will need a healthy mix of revenues and this will involve maximising every income stream including matchday. Utd, RM & Barca will have an advantage of circa £60m every year if we ignore the stadium issue & I can't see FSG ignoring that

[Antynwa]

From what I can gather yes, but not necessarily so...

 

 

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I just don't see how the club could possibly go on redeveloping if they didn't knock that stand down.

 

It's old, crumbling, outdated in terms of facilities, and the concourses are narrow and crap.

[redasever]

Slightly disagree that stadium development would suffer if FSG pursue more TV money (I think that's what you're getting at?). They will need a healthy mix of revenues and this will involve maximising every income stream including matchday. Utd, RM & Barca will have an advantage of circa £60m every year if we ignore the stadium issue & I can't see FSG ignoring that

 

I think that is right. But there's a balance to be struck between international opportunity and local risk

 

As I've said elsewhere, the spectacle is what's sells on TV and sells around the world and that includes a full house and a roaring atmosphere. No one wants to see... damp squib... rainy night... half full stadium... blah, blah, blah.

 

So a full and vibrant occasion is important and not only from a matchday revenue point of view. But trying to bridge a £60m gap on matchday is frankly beyond us based on any model that we are looking at at present. It's way too risky.

 

The creation of a super league has been coming for some time. The brakes on that has always been Sky's national dominance and this situation with international TV rights.

 

However, Sky could very easily be left holding the baby with a diminished national league while the big clubs jump off to an international Super league, probably European - although I'm absolutely sure the 80,000 who turned up in Malaysia to see a kick about and 40,000 to see a training session are fully up to speed with the club's history and heritage.

 

We haven't won trophies lately but we are still big and we still sell in Asia and elsewhere - our history is the reason for that but we can't rest on those laurels. We've probably got another two, maybe not three, years to catch the momentum lost from Istanbul and rekindled by FSG. No more than that.

 

Sky clearly has to look at its international infrastructure, when it will still be a big fish but will be competing in a very much bigger pond rather than dominating a domestic one. This will all take time.

 

Ayre's statement may have a lot more significance for the club in the long run but the stadium is the now issue.

 

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Edited October 12, 2011 by redasever

[Tyler Durden]

I just don't see how the club could possibly go on redeveloping if they didn't knock that stand down.

 

It's old, crumbling, outdated in terms of facilities, and the concourses are narrow and crap.

 

It's a joke, the Kop end paddock bar is like a fucking tuck shop

[redasever]

It's a joke, the Kop end paddock bar is like a fucking tuck shop

 

Fixing it and the other levels wouldn't be difficult. There'd be plenty of room when the stand is extended backwards.

 

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[lifetime fan]

Do people really want the Kop to be dwarfed by other stands?

[redasever]

Do people really want the Kop to be dwarfed by other stands?

 

And if the AR and Main stand were kept to the same height as the Centenary??

 

Anyway it would still be the biggest single tier.

 

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[redasever]

oops

[piscinin]

Slightly disagree that stadium development would suffer if FSG pursue more TV money (I think that's what you're getting at?). They will need a healthy mix of revenues and this will involve maximising every income stream including matchday. Utd, RM & Barca will have an advantage of circa £60m every year if we ignore the stadium issue & I can't see FSG ignoring that

 

As you say, the two aren't mutually exclusive and these fellows are going to pluck whatever low-hanging fruit they can lay their hands-on.