Game Thread: v Birmingham (a)

[Il Fenomeno]

Are you suggesting it would have been alright to pay £17M for Johnson if we had more money availible?

 

If we would've improved and if he was necessary for us to go forward as a team, then yes.

[paddyberger15]

Aaaahhh, I dunno, for me he's an 8m fullback but a 15m (or whatever) wing back. As we saw last year play him in a flat back 4 and he will struggle. So...........

 

Yeah, that's fair enough I'd say. In Johnson and Aurelio we have two wing backs, so if they were both fit, as if, then would you play them as just that in a 3-5-2?

I am currently at an absolute loss as to what our best formation is, what our best 11 is or what system we are even playing....and that is not due to an embarrassment of riches either.

[usernameunknown]

At least the manager is very ambitious and has a lot of faith in his own ability.

 

"My expectations were not that high anyway. It would have been disappointing to lose but I'm not that disappointed to draw.''

[sir roger]

Lots of my thoughts about tactics, players etc. have been picked up earlier on the thread, but the most apparent thing to me is the lack of energy we are putting into games.

 

Up until last season we used to hunt in packs in most matches & never give the opposition time to breathe. Nowadays we stroll through games as if we are the 1970 Brazil side.

 

Strachan once said after we'd battered his Coventry side something along the lines of

' If you can at least match the opposition's efforts, then in the great majority of cases your extra skill & ability will win the day & that's what happened here today'.

 

We, at the moment, seem to be going through the motions.

[Gary Mac Legend]

Johnson and Lucas need to be dropped without a doubt.

[Dirk]

At least the manager is very ambitious and has a lot of faith in his own ability.

 

"My expectations were not that high anyway. It would have been disappointing to lose but I'm not that disappointed to draw.''

 

That's a fucking terrible thing to say. Absolutely dreadful. Somebody needs to have a word with him. Unbelievable.

[usernameunknown]

That's a fucking terrible thing to say. Absolutely dreadful. Somebody needs to have a word with him. Unbelievable.

 

I couldnt believe it either, it was sickening. A Liverpool manager didnt have high expectations away to Birmingham fucking City?

 

Incredible, if thats really his view then he needs to keep it private, or do us all a favour and resign if we're that bad.

[Il Fenomeno]

Sept 6th

 

Hodgson insists however that Liverpool can achieve success and he will not attempt to dampen fans' expectations.

 

"The stature, traditions and ability of Liverpool to attract players certainly makes it an achievable task even though we are in strange times," he said. "You should never try and dampen people's enthusiasm and optimism."

 

Sept 12th

"My expectations were not that high anyway. It would have been disappointing to lose but I'm not that disappointed to draw."

[Guest davelfc]

At least the manager is very ambitious and has a lot of faith in his own ability.

 

"My expectations were not that high anyway. It would have been disappointing to lose but I'm not that disappointed to draw.''

 

Roy Hodgson reserved special praise for Pepe Reina after the Spanish stopper earned Liverpool a point with a string of fine saves in the goalless draw at Birmingham City on Sunday.

 

 

The Reds No.25 pulled off world-class stops to deny Cameron Jerome and Craig Gardner, ensuring he played a major part in helping his side to a share of the spoils.

 

"I would have been disappointed had we lost this game, so I'm not that disappointed with the draw," Hodgson told his post-match press conference.

 

"Birmingham played extremely well in the first half and Pepe made two very good saves in particular. They were two extremely good saves.

 

"I thought we started the game well but then they really pressurised us and worked hard.

 

"They provoked mistakes and kept the ball coming back into our penalty area and our back four and the goalkeeper were hard pressed in that period.

 

"The longer the game went on, we looked more comfortable and started to create some chances of our own.

 

"We always knew this was going to be a very tough encounter, especially after the international break when we haven't seen the players for 10 days.

 

"But I'm more than satisfied with the way the team went about their business and the way we kept our shape and discipline.

 

"I think we can be satisfied with the fact we have left here unbeaten because we know Birmingham are capable of winning matches at St Andrews against all types of opposition."

 

Meanwhile, the manager responded to some suggestions in the Sunday press that claimed he was alleged to have said Liverpool couldn't win the title this season.

 

"I didn't say that because I don't set targets," stated Hodgson.

 

"My target is to prepare the team to do well in each game we play and then we'll see where that takes us.

 

"I don't set targets and I don't know where those quotes came from.

 

"Can this team win the league? I don't know. We'll take every game as it comes, work hard in every one and then we'll see where we are in May.

 

"I find it amusing that people are discussing which team is going to win the league after four games."

 

The boss was also quizzed by journalists about the form of Fernando Torres after the Spanish star endured a frustrating afternoon in front of goal against Birmingham.

 

"Fernando is working hard for the team and as we saw right until the end of the game he's a constant thorn in the side of the defenders," Hodgson said.

 

"I think you should give Dann and Johnson a lot of credit for sticking so close to him and making life difficult for him.

 

"We know he lacks match fitness. He missed matches at the end of last season and missed matches during the World Cup.

 

"I'm not at all concerned about Fernando. He will get better as the season goes on."

 

The manager was questioned about Steven Gerrard's fitness as the skipper ended the game with a headband on after suffering a cut.

 

"Steven got a cut inside his inner ear," revealed Hodgson.

 

"It's not a major problem but of course these days with blood it sends everyone into panic and that's why he had to keep leaving the field, which was a bit of a nuisance. It's not a major issue."

 

Hodgson also confirmed debutant Paul Konchesky was substituted purely as a precaution.

 

The left-back enjoyed a fine Reds bow before limping from the field on 78 minutes.

 

Hodgson said: "He hasn't played for a couple of weeks and he started to feel his hamstring a little bit so we took him off as a precaution and put Daniel Agger on.

 

"I thought he did well in his first game for us. He was very competent and it bodes well for the future."

[Dirk]

I couldnt believe it either, it was sickening. A Liverpool manager didnt have high expectations away to Birmingham fucking City?

 

Incredible, if thats really his view then he needs to keep it private, or do us all a favour and resign if we're that bad.

 

 

He said he's really happy with the squad.....

[Gary Mac Legend]

Just seen we've scored 2 goals in 4 games! Raul Meireles has his work cut out.

 

 

EDIT: If Roy's happy to draw away to Brum, I can see next weeks comments after the scum at OT.

 

"I was pleased that we lost by less than 5 goals, what more could you want?"

[Lycan]

That's a fucking terrible thing to say. Absolutely dreadful. Somebody needs to have a word with him. Unbelievable.

 

Indeed hes not doin himself any favours comin out with shit like that.

[Squabblefest]

Dreadful. Dreadful but lucky.

 

Without Reina we'd have shipped at least three goals.

 

Johnson fighting it out with Lucas and Jovanovic for most brainless player on the pitch.

Skrtl looking like the liability he is whenever he stops listening to Carragher.

Nando continuing his all too public period of existential doubt, (except for that superb run from the half way line).

And a manager who can't see that Poulsen and Lucas in the centre of midfield is a slap in the fucking face to us all and that with no width on the pitch we're always going to struggle.

 

The only positives I can see are that we've got Cole to come back, Miereles looks positive, Konchesky let no-one down, Pepe's world fucking class and Poulsen can tackle and distribute so he's automatically worth a place above Lucas.

 

It's a poor start so far, but we've got potential.

 

Cole and Torres up front, Gerrard and Miereles in the centre and I'd consider starting Kelly at right back from now on.

 

Lucas, Johnson and Jovanovic have no right being on the pitch on current form. We simply can't afford to carry them all.

[Randy Marsh]

I always approach the big games like next wek with optimism but to be honest, I'm fuckin terrified if we turn up like we did today. We'll get raped.

[derykw]

4 games played and 4 times we`ve been second best.

 

Another tootlhless first half again. Is there some hidden rule that says we can`t attempt to even score before half time?

 

Fuck all offered by the two so called widemen, i can`t think of one decent cross from either all game. Early days for the Serb but he looks quite shit.

 

Glen Johnson gets worse by the match. Can`t defend, always caught out of position and feeble floated left footed crosses onto a defenders head is the sum of his attacking contribution..

 

Lucas`s sum contribution seems to be unsuccessfully chasing the opposition midfielders around the pitch like a little kid playing with his older brother and his mates.

 

Apart from Reina`s great saves the only bright spot was Meireles`s showing more promise in 10 minutes than the rest of the midfield all together. We desperately need him to be a player and thankfully Joe Cole will be available again.

 

I know it`s early days for Hodgson but I don`t see any difference at all to the approach and attitude from last season. We need to up our game and fast.

[cmuller]

Not read anything but this page but that was shite. Defence nailed to the floor when any half decent ball was played in, midfield just got rid of the ball all afternoon to any red shirt, regardless of being marked. Attack was nowhere.

 

Manager - could and should have gone for it. But never did.

 

Names have changed in some positions but really no overall change from late last year.

[Torvald Utne]

From the BBC: Liverpool keeper Pepe Reina's heroics earn Roy Hodgson's side a goalless draw at Birmingham.

 

Don't need to say any more than that.

[gkmacca]

Sept 6th

 

A QUOTE ABOUT GENERAL MATTERS

 

Hodgson insists however that Liverpool can achieve success and he will not attempt to dampen fans' expectations.

 

"The stature, traditions and ability of Liverpool to attract players certainly makes it an achievable task even though we are in strange times," he said. "You should never try and dampen people's enthusiasm and optimism."

 

A QUOTE ABOUT A PARTICULAR MATCH

 

Sept 12th

"My expectations were not that high anyway. It would have been disappointing to lose but I'm not that disappointed to draw."

 

It's a bit unfair, a bit manipulative. It was an over-cautious performance, but not wildly so against a team we've a poor record in recent years.

[col06]

It was an over-cautious performance

 

We where bloody awful

[EgyptianRed]

I expected a draw, but didn't expect this kind of performance TBH, I know at least one out of the other competing teams and thats includ City and Spurs will drop points at St Andrews, but they won't be as satisfied with a draw as us, we were aiming for 0-0 from the start and if it weren't for Pepe and coupled with the fact the Zigic was on the bench and wasn't their target man for this two crosses, we could've found ourselves 3-0 down at half time.

 

Skrtel and Carra can't play together, Agger is our best CB by a country mile, Skrtel and Carra are the same types of player, they were caught too many times today espcially from set pieces and crosses and both aren't the best ball playing defenders out there, meaning that with them the possibility of building attacks from the backline is slim to none, instead most of the time they took the ball and hoofed it high, and when they pushed up to build an attack, Birmingham looked danger on the counter, Agger on the opposite is someone who can build attacks, can push up because he is fast enough to return quickly and reads the game better than Carra and Skrtel, I also think that at least one of those crosses would have been pushed away by an Agger's header.

 

Konchesky looked surprisely good today, Carr may have passed from him a couple of times, but as time went on he began to improve and hold his position, he also delivered a couple of crosses, one of which should have been in the net if Torres wasn't selfish and left it to Gerrard, hope he is fit for the Utd game.

 

Same can't be said about Glen. Johnson was poor today, defeseviely and offensively, he needs to start concentrating more on the defensive side of his play, he also needs to play the simple ball he played with England against Switzerland, I just wish Roy had the balls to drop him for a couple of games in favour of Kelly, maybe he realizies that he needs to up his game or else he'll lose his place in the starting XI.

 

And before I finish with the defence, please return to the zonal marking, we're not good for the man marking method from crosses and set pieces.

 

To the midfield, and what a mess our midfield was, you employed four work horses, and with little creativity between Lucas, Poulsen, Maxi and Jova, the display tonight was a narrow, slow, uncreative midfield who may run for 10 yards then lose the ball or pass it 15 yards to the back, we controlled the ball a lot but didn't know what to do with it, Lucas and Poulsen can't work together, pair one of them with Meireles and things'll develope, but a pair of them will keep possesion but instead of playing upfront, their passes will lack creativity and are often to the back or to a team mate standing next to them.

 

Maxi and Jova didn't help also, Jova to his credit tried but his distribution was always to the Brum defence, and he often went deeper and dropped to the midfield a lot to take a pass from Lucas or Poulsen which meant the our left flank was pretty much dead for a lot of time, Maxi didn't move and always passed to a team mate next to him, he didn't move a lot in the right flank and didn't do one cross during the 90 mins.

 

Gerrard and Torres seemed isolated with Torres not being in action for the most of the game till Meireles went, Gerrard didn't receive many passes so had to drop to the midfield to try and build the attack, he always tried reaching Torres but since Torres was alone against four Birmingham defenders and with Maxi and Jova dropping deeper and playing narrower, most of his passes were mispassed.

 

Until Meireles entered, we were lost, Meireles is a type of player who takes the ball, pass into space, run in space to take the ball again, look for a team mate in space, run for him to take the return pass, and no wonder the team seemed like another team once he showed up, with Gerrard playing alongside Poulsen, Poulsen never went up front after that, Gerrard played the same way he played with England for the last two games distributing from deep and Meireles was the person who played in the hole trying the find Torres, Torres himself began moving after not being arsed for 75 minutes.

 

We needed someone with flair on the flanks, Pacheco and Babel certainly would've been better choices than Maxi and Jova, Torres wasn't good for the most part but TBF to him, this strategy never suits him, we need to play wider and he'll florish, if we play narrower and give him the ball from the back then wait till someone shows to him, it won't work, Roy needs to sort his tactics out or we'll have a long season ahead of us.

 

And God Bless Pepe Reina, if it weren't for him, we probably would've been talking about a defeat and not a draw.

 

One of Lucas and Poulsen should be chosen with Raul and Gerrard the other two in the mid, one playing as CM and the other in the hole, Cole should go to play on the left, he from what I saw isn't as good when he plays in the hole, we need flair on the wings, Cole brings that to us along with Pacheco and Babel.

 

If I was the one making choices, I'd make sure we play wider the next set of games, Gerrard and Torres love to play with one touch, someone like Meireles is a good player to help them, since he covers space with his presence and non stopping roaming on the pitch, if Alonso was a deep lying playmaker, Meireles is a box to box player who will move at all directions to take the ball and pass it into space, Torres and Gerrard will florish if we use Cole, Pacheco and Babel on the wings.

 

Torres needs someone like Malouda, A.Johnson, Walcott, Lennon or Valencia bombing on at pace, beating players and then delivering 'QUALITY' balls into the danger areas. The areas certain Torres would like to be getting on the end of things.Maxi and Jova (and to a lesser extent Kuyt) just dont offer us that, Cole, Babel and Pacheco does that. Gerrard will be the one who gives these wingers the through ball needed to the wings since they won't play deep rather exploit the flanks (yes I use a lot of FM refrences but thats the truth about the style we should use to win games).

 

 

Jova and Maxi should be used in times when you want to defend a score or a tie (if we're playing in the EL) so you enter them since they are workhorses, will run waste some time and get stuck in with tackles and can take some, not in a game you want to win from the begining.

[Pidge]

pretty much

[piscinin]

Lots of my thoughts about tactics, players etc. have been picked up earlier on the thread, but the most apparent thing to me is the lack of energy we are putting into games.

 

Up until last season we used to hunt in packs in most matches & never give the opposition time to breathe. Nowadays we stroll through games as if we are the 1970 Brazil side.

 

Strachan once said after we'd battered his Coventry side something along the lines of

' If you can at least match the opposition's efforts, then in the great majority of cases your extra skill & ability will win the day & that's what happened here today'.

 

We, at the moment, seem to be going through the motions.

 

Hodgson is all about shape. Pressing is the antithesis of shape. This is not psychological or laziness, its tactical; it looks worse than it is because we don't have the transition part of the game working yet.

 

So I wouldn't read anymore into it than; this is just how counter-attacking teams play.

 

Here's a good quote from Mourinho to get you into the mindset [exaggerated on his part of course, but even so].

 

“We didn’t press because we didn't want the ball because when Barcelona press and win the ball back, we lose our position – I never want to lose position on the pitch so I didn’t want us to have the ball, we gave it away.”

[piscinin]

Yeah, that's fair enough I'd say. In Johnson and Aurelio we have two wing backs, so if they were both fit, as if, then would you play them as just that in a 3-5-2?

I am currently at an absolute loss as to what our best formation is, what our best 11 is or what system we are even playing....and that is not due to an embarrassment of riches either.

 

I don't know about 3-5-2 seems to me with players who have spent their whole career being coached as defenders they are going to convert it to 532 pretty quickly even if unintentionally. No wide forward for the "wing back" to overlap, has to do all the work on his own? 3 CHs against 1 striker? One of the CHs following a second striker outside of his comfort zone into midfield etc? Could get messy with players coming up with a whole lot of wrong decisions to questions they are not used to being asked IMO.

 

I agree about the formation, but to me it seems thats because we're 1 transfer window and 0 quid into a transformation from a 4231 possession based team to a 442(1-1) transition/counter-attack team.

[G Richards]

We will get better. Cole will bring more creativity and Meireles will add more drive from midfield.

[JohanH]

We were poor yesterday and the manager made some mistakes.

 

BUT-

 

We have played 4 games in which our central striker is unfit, our best defensive midfielder has gone on strike and forced a move, our most exciting new player got a dubious sending off, there is no money to spend and the ownership situation is getting messier every day.

 

How about giving the manager half a chance to work with his players before making final judgement?