Israel attacks Gaza aid fleet

[Anny Road]

Presumably then you would condemn this Israeli response?

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Still, how stupid do you have to be to try and break a blockade

 

It's an illegal blockade, SD.

 

Well, I don't think any of us know exactly where it took place, although "international waters" isn't much of a defence when someone has clearly stated that they intend to illegally enter your waters.

 

It is a defence, actually, but if you're concerned with legality, maybe we should start with the Nuclear armed superpower that is in more breaches of International law than any other country in the world rather than the intentions of people trying to get aid to a brutally oppressed people?

 

Really struggling to see anything wrong with what I wrote, least of all a "new low". The 'Free Gaza' people got exactly what they want: they poked a lion with a stick and it bit their head off, and now everyone's condemning the lion for being a lion. Job done from their side surely?

 

Apart from that Israel isn't a lion, is it. It's a country that calls itself a developed country and the only democracy in the middle east. It's a super power backed by a hyper power. It's a member of UN and not a predatory beast.

[dennis tooth]

Presumably then you would condemn this Israeli response?

 

No, he wants to talk about the protestors bringing it on themselves. By focusing on that, it's a way of defending the Isrealis, same way pedestrians are to blame for walking when there's cars, they deserved to be mowed down, stupid fools.

[torahboy]

The Israelis are now trying to convince the world that this was some form of legitimate operation and that weapons were found on the vessel they attacked. This would be laughable if it wasn't so sinister.

 

Every single atrocity that the Zionist state perpetrates is always 'justified' by some unsubstantiated reason. It is propaganda that could come from another era, from another racist, fascist state that, eventually, the whole world turned against. And it is only the rest of the international community acting in unison that can put an end to the foul and inhuman excesses of the Zionist state. This could be the right time for such a united response from our world leaders.

[Strontium]

Presumably then you would condemn this Israeli response?

 

 

I think it would be remiss of me to comment whle the facts are not known.

 

For instance, we're told that the people on the flotillas were unarmed, but unarmed people don't do this to commandos:

 

 

So, yeah, I'd like to wait until the facts are in before I start condemning anything.

 

 

No, he wants to talk about the protestors bringing it on themselves. By focusing on that, it's a way of defending the Isrealis, same way pedestrians are to blame for walking when there's cars, they deserved to be mowed down, stupid fools.

 

 

It is a bit like people stepping out in front of a bus I suppose. Like that silly cow who lost a fight with a bulldozer a few years back.

[torahboy]

I think it would be remiss of me to comment whle the facts are not known.

 

For instance, we're told that the people on the flotillas were unarmed, but unarmed people don't do this to commandos:

 

 

So, yeah, I'd like to wait until the facts are in before I start condemning anything.

 

 

 

 

It is a bit like people stepping out in front of a bus I suppose. Like that silly cow who lost a fight with a bulldozer a few years back.

 

 

 

 

Are they the 'facts' that will be provided by the Israeli government?

[Anny Road]

I think it would be remiss of me to comment whle the facts are not known.

 

For instance, we're told that the people on the flotillas were unarmed, but unarmed people don't do this to commandos:

 

 

So, yeah, I'd like to wait until the facts are in before I start condemning anything.

 

 

 

It is a bit like people stepping out in front of a bus I suppose. Like that silly cow who lost a fight with a bulldozer a few years back.

 

Too fucking right they defended themselves, as they are entitled to under international law when someone attempts to board your vessel in international waters.

[dennis tooth]

Yeah as if they could have done that to commandoes with machine guns and state of the art weaponary. I'll rush to judge in this case. Rubbish

 

Given that the Isreali's started firing before they even got on the boat, stop pretending theres loads of confusion about the facts here, there is not.

[Anny Road]

Only Israel could say it landed commandos on the back of a vessel from a chopper, firing live amo and tear gas at people with nowhere to go, IN SELF DEFENSE.

 

I agree these people were stupid and it was likely that the IDF would not back down, but come on could they not have handled this another way.

[dennis tooth]

These people are fully familiar with IDF practises so aren't stupid, this is in some way, the best response they could have hoped for, the IDF's best decision should have been to allow it through, it would show their claims of the imprisoned population to be questioned.

[dennis tooth]

GRETA BERLIN, FREE GAZA MOVEMENT SPOKESWOMAN

 

It's disgusting that they have come on board and attacked civilians. We are civilians.

 

How could the Israeli military attack civilians like this? Do they think that because they can attack Palestinians indiscriminately they can attack anyone?

 

 

Compare with:

 

DANIEL AYALON, ISRAELI DEPUTY FOREIGN MINISTER

 

The armada of hate and violence in support of [the] Hamas terror organisation was a premeditated and outrageous provocation. The organisers are well known for their ties with global jihad, al-Qaeda and Hamas. They have a history of arms smuggling and deadly terror.

 

On board the ship, we found weapons prepared in advance and used against our forces. The organisers intent was violent, their method was violent and the results were unfortunately violent. Israel regrets any loss of life and did everything to avoid this outcome.

 

 

Yeah these people tried to enter Gaza waters armed and were hell bent on defeating all IDF forces, invading Isreal and planning a coup. Is that what you want us to beleive SD? A ship full of journo's politicians and peace activists, and a capt who was also seriously injured was actually intent on fighting hand to hand combat with armed commandos? Also shame on the BBC for putting the picture of the 'injured' Isreali on their front page of their news sectionb and article as if the Isreali's are the victims?

[Fugitive]

If this was in Somalia, they would be called Pirates.

[BatChainPuller]

The Swedes were well-represented in "the armada of hate and violence" - occupying their usual place in the vanguard of the jihad - I always thought that Wallander had anti-semitic undertones...

 

We await Clegg's pronouncements with interest.

 

Author Henning Mankell aboard Gaza flotilla stormed by Israeli troops | Books | guardian.co.uk

 

Author Henning Mankell aboard Gaza flotilla stormed by Israeli troops

 

Fears for safety of bestselling Swedish crime writer Henning Mankell after surprise attack results in at least 10 deaths

 

 

The bestselling Swedish author Henning Mankell was on board a convoy of Gaza-bound aid boats stormed by Israeli forces today, resulting in the deaths of at least 10 activists and injuries to dozens of others. With the ships out of communication since the attack early this morning, it is not yet known whether he is among the injured.

 

Mankell had decided to join the aid-delivering flotilla – also believed to include Nobel peace laureate Mairead Corrigan-Maguire – in a gesture of solidarity towards Palestinians currently living under the Israeli blockade. The Free Gaza Movement and a coalition of activist groups have been attempting to circumvent import restrictions imposed by the country since 2008.

 

A spokesperson for Ship to Gaza-Sweden said he had last spoken to someone on board Mankell's ship just before 5am Swedish time (4am BST). "They were telling us then about the Israeli soldiers climbing into the neighbouring ship, and they heard shooting aboard it. I was not speaking to Henning but to one of his friends. The Swedish ship was attacked a bit later, 10-15 minutes later. The whole attack was done between 4-5 o'clock Swedish time," said Mikael Löfgren.

 

"We don't know what's happened since. When the ships were attacked, the Israelis cut off all communications and we haven't heard from them since. As we speak, I can see the ships coming into the harbour of Ashdod [on television] so I presume that's them," Löfgren said. "We don't know if they're all right. The numbers of the killed and wounded are rising all the time. The latest information is talking about 19 deaths. It's a really awful thing."

 

Mankell, creator of the Wallander detective series, was scheduled to speak at the Guardian Hay festival this weekend but was forced to pull out after the flotilla was delayed as it negotiated entry into Israeli waters. He was set to be beamed in live from the boat for an evening appearance on Saturday evening with Ahdaf Soueif, the Egyptian novelist, and interviewer Jon Snow, but the link didn't work; festival organisers called him numerous times but failed to connect.

 

At Hay today, barrister and author Michael Mansfield told the Guardian: "The main thing is that it was done in international waters, which is illegal. And it was not a convoy carrying military personnel … Israel does exactly what it wants and nobody lifts a finger. It's absolutely outrageous."

 

Mansfield pointed to an article in the Guardian in December by Nick Clegg in which he said that the international community has got to do something about it if Israel doesn't end the blockade. "I'm afraid he's got to be put on the spot when Philippe Sands interviews him [at Hay]. Never mind the Iraq war – this is far more serious."

 

Clegg is scheduled to speak at Hay this weekend, while Israeli ambassador in London Ron Prosor is set to appear at the festival tomorrow evening to discuss "events and the state of Anglo-Israeli relations"; festival organisers said this afternoon that the event was going ahead as planned.

 

Last week, Mankell told Swedish radio that he decided to take part in the aid convoy to show his solidarity towards the Palestinians. "I think that when one talks about solidarity, one must always know that actions are what proves destiny," he said. It is with actions that we prove we are ready to support something we believe is important."

[BatChainPuller]

Now Clegg has the opportunity to exert some leverage lets see if he lives up to his rhetoric:

 

 

Lift the Gaza blockade

 

The suffering is shocking. And nobody will benefit from the radicalism that confinement engenders

 

 

o Nick Clegg

o The Guardian, Tuesday 22 December 2009

Lift the Gaza blockade | Nick Clegg | Comment is free | The Guardian

 

On 27 December last year, Israel launched Operation Cast Lead in Gaza, an overwhelming exercise of military force aimed at silencing the Hamas rockets which had terrorised Israeli towns and villages. The immediate effects of the invasion are well known: 1,400 Palestinians dead, mostly civilians, with many more wounded or displaced; 10 Israeli soldiers and three civilians killed, dozens more injured; and thousands of families in southern Israel forced to flee to other parts of the country. The rocketfire from Gaza into Israel has slowed but has not entirely ceased. Hamas is still in power.

 

What is less well-known is the escalating humanitarian crisis in Gaza. The legacy of Operation Cast Lead is a living nightmare for one and a half million Palestinians squeezed into one of the most overcrowded and wretched stretches of land on the planet. And as Israel and Egypt maintain a near total blockade against Gaza, the misery deepens by the day.

 

This is not only shocking in humanitarian terms. It is not in Israel's or Egypt's interest, either. Confining people in abject poverty in a tiny slice of territory is a recipe for continued bitterness, fury and radicalism.

 

And what has the British government and the international community done to lift the blockade? Next to nothing. Tough-sounding declarations are issued at regular intervals but little real pressure is applied. It is a scandal that the international community has sat on its hands in the face of this unfolding crisis.

 

No doubt the febrile sensitivities of the Middle East have deterred governments, caught between recriminations from both sides. No doubt diplomats have warned that exerting pressure on Israel and Egypt may complicate the peace process.

 

But surely the consequences of not lifting the blockade are far more grave? How is the peace process served by sickness, mortality rates, mental trauma and malnutrition increasing in Gaza? Is it not in Israel's enlightened self-interest to relieve the humanitarian suffering?

 

The peace process is in serious trouble right now. Internal Israeli politics limits any meaningful room for manoeuvre, illegal settlement activity in the West Bank continues, and leadership of the Palestinians is divided and incoherent. A two-state solution, long the accepted bedrock of any agreement, is being openly questioned.

 

But paralysis in the peace process cannot be an excuse for the inhumane treatment of one and a half million people, the majority of them under 18 years old. No peaceful coexistence of any kind is possible as long as this act of collective confinement continues.

 

According to a recently leaked report by the UN office of the humanitarian co-ordinator, Gaza is undergoing "a process of de-development, which potentially could lead to the complete breakdown of public infrastructure". A report released today by a group of 16 humanitarian and human rights groups further spells out the effects.

 

Family homes destroyed in the invasion lie as shattered as ever. The embargo on construction materials means they will stay that way. Local hospitals and clinics were left devastated by the invasion, and those suffering health problems wait longer than ever to get out of Gaza for treatment. Many have died waiting. Bed-wetting and nightmares are endemic among children.

 

Half of those under 30 are unemployed. These young people are trapped in a broken land with little hope of economic opportunity. The blockade's restrictions on Gaza's fishermen mean they can sail only three nautical miles from the coast, impoverishing their families. Meanwhile, 80m litres of raw and partially treated sewage is pumped out into the sea every day.

 

Most disturbingly of all, the lack of access to materials means that basic water infrastructure simply cannot be repaired or improved; 90 to 95% of Gaza's water fails to meet WHO standards. The extremely high nitrate level in the water supply is leaving thousands of newborn babies at risk of poisoning.

 

The insistence by some that aid should come into no contact whatsoever, even indirectly, with Hamas means NGOs are prevented from repairing basic water and sanitation facilities in schools.

 

There is a clear moral imperative for Israel and Egypt to end the blockade, as well as it being in their enlightened self-interest to change course. But if they do not do so of their own volition, it is up to the international community to persuade them otherwise.

 

The EU has huge economic influence over Israel, and it believes the blockade must be lifted. At the same time as exercising leverage over Hamas, it should make clear that the web of preferential agreements which now exists between the EU and Israel – from Israeli access to EU research and development funds to recently improved access for Israeli agricultural products – will be brought into question if there is no rapid progress.

 

Equally, the US, as by far the largest bilateral donor to Egypt, should press President Mubarak to allow in the humanitarian and reconstruction materials that are so desperately needed.

 

What will be the state of Gaza's drinking water by next December? Of the health of its children? Of the economy? The attitude of its people towards Egypt and Israel? The risk of waiting another year is too great. Gordon Brown and the international community must urgently declare that enough is enough. The blockade must end.

[Funkasy]

So your all sure there were no weapons on board all these ships ?

 

Edit: attacking in international water was a stupid idea, they should have waited until they entered the "no go zone"

[dennis tooth]

It would be pretty stupid to carry weapons in with them on a high profile media peace trip, it would play right into Isreali hands, to then try to take on one of the biggest military forces around, with a flotzilla would be complete madness. All have been trained in non violent protest in preparation for this trip as violence and it's use would clearly undermine the whole idea. Only the power of Isreali propaganda can make people question the unquestionable.

 

The most likely reason they attacked at that time would be to use the cover of darkness to massacre people, it may have been too late if they had waited, I'm sure they'd rather not massacre people in daylight.

I fully expected there to be deaths on this trip. Isreal wants to stop anyone trying this kind of peace shit as they have done for half a century, they would want to send this message to the world and can take the flak as they don't give a shit about the rest of the world.

[dennis tooth]

"And what has the British government and the international community done to lift the blockade? Next to nothing. "

 

Yeah nice one Nick, any updates on this since you took office, or are you still busy enjoying that nice slice of shut-the-fuck-up pie the Tories serve you?

[torahboy]

The Israeli story gets better. Mark Regev, Netanyahu's spokesman, on BBC news said that IDF members had been shot during the attack on the ship.

 

Although the peace activists originally defended themselves with metal bars and catapults they then , according to Regev, wrested weapins from the highly trained commandos and turned them on the Israelis.

 

You know what? I don't believe Mark Regev. What's the odds on the Israeli authorities finding rocket launchers on the ship now that they have impounded the vessel?

[dennis tooth]

Kind of puts that Krav Manga shit into perspective if true.

 

Bad bunch of meffs them Krav Man's, they think it's great hand to hand combat style cos it's works when used against defenceless little Palestinian girls to break their arms, I'd like to see a real fighter tear through that fake shit, a really appalling hand to hand fighting style. According to these officals it doesn't even help you disarm an unarmed Nobel Peace Laureate whilst holding a sub machine gun. What a shit.

 

Also I wonder what legal right Isreal has to impound ships in international waters now and tow them whereever they want?

[Anny Road]

Kind of puts that Krav Manga shit into perspective if true.

 

Bad bunch of meffs them Krav Man's, they think it's great hand to hand combat style cos it's works when used against defenceless little Palestinian girls to break their arms, I'd like to see a real fighter tear through that fake shit, a really appalling hand to hand fighting style. According to these officals it doesn't even help you disarm an unarmed Nobel Peace Laureate whilst holding a sub machine gun. What a shit.

 

Also I wonder what legal right Isreal has to impound ships in international waters now and tow them whereever they want?

 

Apparently there is provision in international law for a state to intercept a vessel if it intends to break an embargo. One for the lawyers that one.

 

Had to laugh at the Israeli spokes person on the news saying the terrorists on the boat had been stockpiling sticks, bars and knives.

Maybe Mossad and the IDF should stop using M16's and Apaches and get the sticks out.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Apparently there is provision in international law for a state to intercept a vessel if it intends to break an embargo.

 

It's an illegal blockade, so doesn't apply.

[RobbieOR]

News Middle East

Israel attacks Gaza aid fleet

 

 

Al Jazeera's report on board the Mavi Marmara before communications were cut

 

Israeli forces have attacked a flotilla of aid-carrying ships aiming to break the country's siege on Gaza.

 

More than 10 people were killed and dozens injured when troops intercepted the convoy of ships dubbed the Freedom Flotilla early on Monday, the Israeli military said.

 

The Israeli Army Radio had earlier said that up to 16 people had been killed.

 

The flotilla was attacked in international waters, 65km off the Gaza coast.

 

Footage from the flotilla's lead vessel, the Mavi Marmara, showed armed Israeli soldiers boarding the ship and helicopters flying overhead.

 

Al Jazeera's Jamal Elshayyal, on board the Mavi Marmara, said Israeli troops had used live ammunition during the operation.

 

The Israeli military said four soldiers had been wounded, two of them moderately, and claimed troops opened fire after "demonstrators onboard attacked the IDF Naval personnel with live fire and light weaponry including knives and clubs".

 

Free Gaza Movement, the organisers of the flotilla, however, said the troops opened fire as soon as they stormed the ships.

 

Israeli intervention

 

Earlier, the Israeli navy had contacted the captain of the Mavi Marmara, asking him to identify himself and say where the ship was headed.

IN DEPTH

 

 

Focus: On board the Freedom Flotilla

Focus: 'The future of Palestine'

Tensions rise over Gaza aid fleet

'Fighting to break Gaza siege'

Aid convoy sets off for Gaza

Programmes: Born in Gaza

Video: Israel's Gaza PR offensive

Video: Gazan's rare family reunion abroad

Video: Making the most of Gaza's woes

 

Shortly after, two Israeli naval vessels had flanked the flotilla on either side, but at a distance.

 

Organisers of the flotilla carrying 10,000 tonnes of humanitarian aid then diverted their ships and slowed down to avoid a confrontation during the night.

 

They also issued all passengers life jackets and asked them to remain below deck.

 

Al Jazeera’s Ayman Mohyeldin, reporting from Jerusalem, said the Israeli action was surprising.

 

"All the images being shown from the activists on board those ships show clearly that they were civilians and peaceful in nature, with medical supplies on board. So it will surprise many in the international community to learn what could have possibly led to this type of confrontation," he said.

 

Meanwhile, Israeli police have been put on a heightened state of alert across the country to prevent any civil disturbances.

 

Protests

 

Condemnation has been quick to pour in after the Israeli action.

 

Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian president, officially declared a three-day state of mourning over Monday's deaths.

Live blogging

 

Aftermath of Israel's attack on Gaza flotilla

 

Thousands of Turkish protesters tried to storm the Israeli consulate in Istanbul soon after the news of the operation broke. The protesters shouted "Damn Israel" as police blocked them.

 

Turkey is also reported to have summoned the Israeli ambassador to lodge a protest.

 

"(The interception on the convoy) is unacceptable ... Israel will have to endure the consequences of this behaviour," the Turkish foreign ministry said in a statement.

 

Ismail Haniya, the Hamas leader in Gaza, has also dubbed the Israeli action as "barbaric".

 

Hundreds of pro-Palestinian activists, including a Nobel laureate and several European legislators, were with the flotilla, aiming to reach Gaza in defiance of an Israeli embargo.

 

But Israel had said it would not allow the flotilla to reach the Gaza Strip and vowed to stop the six ships from reaching the coastal Palestinian territory.

 

The flotilla had set sail from a port in Cyprus on Sunday and aimed to reach Gaza by Monday morning.

 

Israel said the boats were embarking on "an act of provocation" against the Israeli military, rather than providing aid, and that it had issued warrants to prohibit their entrance to Gaza.

 

It asserted that the flotilla would be breaking international law by landing in Gaza, a claim the organisers rejected.

 

Fucking hypocrits.

[Anny Road]

It's an illegal blockade, so doesn't apply.

Israelis seem to think it was legal.

Well they probably could not care less. If they are happy to go around murdering hamas leaders with passports cloned from citizens of their allies they obviously could not give a toss about a load of hippies on a boat.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Israelis seem to think it was legal.

 

They're wrong. You're right though, they don't give a fuck. They break more international laws than any other country.

 

Like I said, though, their blockade is illegal (I purposely found the most right wing source I could for that), as is their attack on civilians in International waters, so they don't have foot to stand on.

[Anny Road]

Fox news, F me. It must be illegal beyond doubt.