Russia Kick Off

[Uncle_Meat]

To be fair to the Russians, they've been royaly fucked over twice in the last century, so in that respect you can almost understand why they are so zealous in protecting their borders, especially when you consider the US having a history of antagonising them here and there along the way. Georgia is quite a pro-US nation, you can imagine the Russians getting a bit jittery when it comes to discord in that region.

[Stu Monty]

To be fair to the Russians, they've been royaly fucked over twice in the last century, so in that respect you can almost understand why they are so zealous in protecting their borders, especially when you consider the US having a history of antagonising them here and there along the way. Georgia is quite a pro-US nation, you can imagine the Russians getting a bit jittery when it comes to discord in that region.

 

The Georgians have basically said: "We're fucking with you because we've got a big mate who hates you."

 

Russia have said: "Fuck you and your mate; he thinks he's harder than he is so don't fuck with us".

 

No need to watch newsnight now, that's your in-depth analysis right there.

[Uncle_Meat]

The Georgians have basically said: "We're fucking with you because we've got a big mate who hates you."

 

Russia have said: "Fuck you and your mate; he thinks he's harder than he is so don't fuck with us".

 

No need to watch newsnight now, that's your in-depth analysis right there.

 

 

Quoted for truthery. That's about the size of it, right there.

[Captain]

Russians are scum. Always have been, always will be.

 

Negged on behalf of my favourite Russian.

 

As for the conflict, I think Russia needs to take a look at itself. It's one thing getting involved in the area in question. It's quite another starting dropping bombs here and there at other locations. That's just full on warfare, and uncalled for at this point.

 

Hopefulle OSSE and EU can keep this from escalating into something very nasty.

[Unrighteous]

Really don't trust Russia. Remember that Simpsons episode when they quickly converted back into the Soviet Union? Real life that.

 

Reality is that a facist style of government is becoming increasingly popular in Russia.

[Unrighteous]

Russians are scum. Always have been, always will be.

 

Fist yourself, bellend.

[aws]

The sanctity of borders principle is supposed to be subsidiary to the right of peoples to self-determination. If it's OK for Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo to secede from Yuoslavia and wrong for the Serbians to send in the tanks to stop them then why can't the Ossetians decide they don't want to be part of Georgia without being bombarded?

 

Georgia seem to have started this one and no doubt the Russians will be glad of the opportunity to give them a bloody nose.

 

What would the USA do if the Mexicans attacked an enclave of US citizens living over the border?

[Anubis]

What would the USA do if the Mexicans attacked an enclave of US citizens living over the border?

Deport all the housemaids working for middle to upper class US families?

[JagSquared]

Georgia pulls out. Abkhazia has also been lost by the Georgians.

 

I love how different the slant is depending on source/ agenda (Fox, BBC, Russia Today etc) it will be interesting to see where the Russians go from here. I doubt they will continue the war but you never really know.

[Captain]

Good tactical move by Georgia to pull out all their forces. It leaves Russia with no real argument to keep their offensive operations going, and will hopefully save lives in the process. Whether Russia will cease hostilities remains to be seen. I suspect they want to hurt Georgia more before they do.

[Unrighteous]

Good tactical move by Georgia to pull out all their forces. It leaves Russia with no real argument to keep their offensive operations going, and will hopefully save lives in the process. Whether Russia will cease hostilities remains to be seen. I suspect they want to hurt Georgia more before they do.

 

It was really their only play... It definitely will be a very interesting next few days.

[Section_31]

Good tactical move by Georgia to pull out all their forces. It leaves Russia with no real argument to keep their offensive operations going, and will hopefully save lives in the process. Whether Russia will cease hostilities remains to be seen. I suspect they want to hurt Georgia more before they do.

 

Russia is claiming the Georgians haven't withdrawn and are continuing to attack, last night they bombed Tbilisi and are (as we speak) reportedly beginning an operation in Abkhazia.

 

It has also launched a blockade involving its Black Sea Fleet which is usually berthed in the Ukraine, which says it will not allow them back to its ports.

 

This isn't about the Russians 'helping' the hard done to peoples on their borders, this is about them sending a message and fucking over their smaller neighbours - again.

 

People should think about the German Rheinland/Sudetenland invasion/'liberation' and the political landscapes of both them and the 21st century Russians, the parallels are telling.

[dennis tooth]

To be honest I never quite understand the way these threads always go down the 'yeah but but but Iraq' route.

 

Someone is either up to no good or they're not, the fact that someone else has done wrong doesn't make that any less the case.

 

It's like me posting a thread on Harold Shipman and someone saying 'yeah but what about Ian Brady?'

 

The Russians are bombing civilian targets in Georgia proper, not in the combat zone, and they've violated a soevereign state - whether those people have Russian passports is by the bye.

 

Another crucial difference in the west is that we're allowed to slag off our own leaders too, and if we were having this conversation in Russia now the spetsnaz would probably be kicking down our doors.

 

The minute Michale Moore wakes up looking like this:

 

 

Is the minute I'll concede the Russians are no worse than the West and purely the victims of bad press.

 

Sec. The issue most people have with it and I don't think you are capable of understanding it, is simply the mantra, treat others how you expect to be treated yourself and judge yourself by the standard you set for others.

 

There is this tendency to focus on the crimes of other countries and downplaying the role of our own in the world.

For all the harping on about how bad Russia and China are when they bat an eyelid and we are just as bad, no better, no worse. We are just as much a threat to world peace. Just because are own bubbled in citizens are removed from such troubles does not excuse the hand wringing that goes on. Are we not bombing civi's everyday, are we not supporting Russia despite trying to look hard with diplomatic PR shite?

Our media is the worst for it, I can't even get any info on Iraq and Afganistan for love nor money, it's completely excluded, meanwhile every little thing will now be played out, wheeled out while all these journo's towing the line say how bad it is, when they all rallied round to fool the public into going into Iraqw and quietly thrusting it under the carpet so we can all 'Find Maddie'.

 

If you are Ian Brady, then yes, what about Harold Shipman?

 

 

I know what you are saying about Micheal Moore, he would be killed in some countries but that is irrelevant. The maintained mirage designed for the public in them countries would be under threat if he was allowed to be spouting his stuff. In the west, the mirage is that people can criticise and we are all free, so we can all carry on living our bullshit lives, work, eat, shop. Meanwhile the government gets on with the real stuff under the 'flag' of belligerent good intentions. The end result is the same as if we were living under a Russian government, neither have any real power to change. We have two idiots who were likely classmates in some toff school who we get to vote for every 5 years or so who then carte-blanche style proceed to do what they want whilst in power.

 

Whatever style you prefer, the end result is the same. The only time you can say we are no worse is when we stop participating in it. That's the first step as there are people just like you in Russia saying the same things upsidedown like some parralell universe.

[Section_31]

Again, the west's past transgressions has exactly WHAT to do with the Russian bombing and blockade of a sovereign nation in a brazen attempt to reconstitute its sphere of influence?!?!

 

And I don't know what you're on about with the 'can't get information on Iraq or Afghanistan for love nor money' comment, maybe you're (uncensored) Google is playing up, have words with your provider.

 

I don't honestly know if you're being serious or not with that post, a bit of both maybe, but it represents pretty much everything that pisses me off about our current grasp of world affairs. Everything has an anti-American and pro-everyone else spin to it, the more you do it the more intelligent you're perceived to be, and it's frankly baffling.

 

These combat-pants-wearing accentless toffs from the University of Bath who choose to dabble in a bit of alco-pop socialism have approximately nothing to say on world affairs that I want to hear, nothing.

[Anubis]

Our media is the worst for it, I can't even get any info on Iraq and Afganistan for love nor money, it's completely excluded, meanwhile every little thing will now be played out, wheeled out while all these journo's towing the line say how bad it is, when they all rallied round to fool the public into going into Iraqw and quietly thrusting it under the carpet so we can all 'Find Maddie'.

Have your links to intelligence sources dried up? ;)

[Strontium]

People should think about the German Rheinland/Sudetenland invasion/'liberation' and the political landscapes of both them and the 21st century Russians, the parallels are telling.

 

The parallels are eerie - except that Nazi Germany didn't have 16,000 nuclear warheads in its arsenal. If Russia succeeds against Georgia, I think Ukraine will be next on the hitlist.

 

The immediate response to this appalling Russian crime should be to kick it out of the Council of Europe and bar it from G-8. Then we can shift some NATO bases to the Baltic and bring Ukraine under the Western nuclear umbrella. If at all possible, we should be trying to avoid using Russian gas (good luck selling it to China when your pipes don't reach that far, fuckos).

 

We have to show these New Soviets that we mean business.

[Fugitive]

I for one welcome the return of the Soviet Union because we will see a return to old style of bad guy in film and nobody does the bad guy better than the Soviets.

 

Look at this and tell me I'm wrong...

 

[YOUTUBE]GWihWfdH4Zw[/YOUTUBE]

[Stu Monty]

So people would expect Russia not to react to aggression against a nearby region where 70% of the populace is Russian. Is that what we're saying here?

 

It's not past transgresions that people are bringing up either, it's current ongoing transgressions. We moan about how terrible the Russians are and then just pretend that out closest ally in this massive game for resource and markets isn't funding a genocide in Mexico; and has been for a decade.

 

It's all feintly rediculous.

[Unrighteous]

So people would expect Russia not to react to aggression against a nearby region where 70% of the populace is Russian. Is that what we're saying here?

 

It's not past transgresions that people are bringing up either, it's current ongoing transgressions. We moan about how terrible the Russians are and then just pretend that out closest ally in this massive game for resource and markets isn't funding a genocide in Mexico; and has been for a decade.

 

It's all feintly rediculous.

 

US and Israel governments are the biggest terrorist organisations in the world.

 

Britain sure loves them... but Russians are bad.

[Stu Monty]

US and Israel governments are the biggest terrorist organisations in the world.

 

Britain sure loves them... but Russians are bad.

 

It's bizarre. Even if we were to say that the fact that the Russians weren't the original aggressor here or that they have a lot of their citizens in the area were false it still wouldn't be that out of line with the overall acceptable behaviour from our allies.

[George Costanza]

Can't remember what programme I watched but it was on Russia and there was a strong feeling (politically and nationally) that modern Russia was weak and was far too open to Western influence. Even amongst the young educated university students they hope Russia to return to its 'former glories'.

 

I've not really followed this peice of news so don't really know the ins & outs of it all but purely from an instintive thought, feels to me that Russia wants to restamp its authority in the east, possibly through repatriation

[dennis tooth]

As I thought, complete waste of time Sec.

I only take you on because you seem intelligent and just as keen to stand in line. I find that very dangerous, the type of stuff you'd read in the Guardian.

Typical smart bastard journo mentality, towing the line.

 

Do I remember rightly a while back seeing you post supporting Britains role in the Balkans conflict? I could be wrong but I beleive that is the case....

 

It doesn't have anything to do with Russia and all that is going on there but your opening post alluding to what I am referring to in a misinformed way. The hand wringing of our own crimes, outside looking in, us and them mentality, "ooh aren't they bad" while our own crimes are simply 'well meaning mistakes' whereas their's are obviously completely evil.

 

Go on any of the major western news media outlets and try find any information on what is happening to the people, the victims, oh right aren't all the journo's sitting in the green zone, being told their information by Generals? May as well just pass them the pen and paper.

 

 

As I've already tried to explain, it's not about being anti anything, (Anyone who decides the answer before hearing the question is, frankly, an idiot.)it aint about class either, you simply 'treat others as you wished to be treated yourself and use the same standards to judge both sides, starting with ourselves. When we do not participate in terrorism, then we can call others in for it, when we stop this war shite then we can criticise others.

 

Anything else is simply hypocritical and foolish.

[Section_31]

So people would expect Russia not to react to aggression against a nearby region where 70% of the populace is Russian. Is that what we're saying here?

 

It's not past transgresions that people are bringing up either, it's current ongoing transgressions. We moan about how terrible the Russians are and then just pretend that out closest ally in this massive game for resource and markets isn't funding a genocide in Mexico; and has been for a decade.

 

It's all feintly rediculous.

 

Plenty of people do moan about the west though, it's all I ever hear - especially on the GF, but why does what the west has done in the past mean I can't find Russia's actions fucking outrageous?

 

Stu I find it truly unreal that you of all people can fall for the Russian line on this, a country with no free state media and which has actively assassinated dissenting voices.

 

I also think people are missing the point slightly with what's going on here too.

 

This isn't baout Georgia, or Russians in Georgia.

 

You need to look at what the Russians have been doing over the last five to ten years. Engaging in state-funded building projects designed to encourage national pride (such as the Evenk hydroelectric dam project), bringing back the old soviet anthem, reining in the media, changing the political system and making it virtually impossable for any other party to gain control, killing voices of opposition, having their first nuclear parade since the end of the cold war, rebuilding their surface fleet.

 

This is all just phase one, and I'll say again the paralells with the rebirth of a nationalistic Germany are unreal, the expressions on the Russian soldiers' faces is even the same as some of the photographs I've seen of Poland (we're back, get the fuck out of the way).

 

Tactics Truck, I see you've resorted to ad hominem arguements already, which is actually your M.O and has resulted in you getting banned what? twice? It takes more than copied and pasted Chomsky and a few insults to impress me son.

[dennis tooth]

Plenty of people do moan about the west though, it's all I ever hear - especially on the GF, but why does what the west has done in the past mean I can't find Russia's actions fucking outrageous?

 

Stu I find it truly unreal that you of all people can fall for the Russian line on this, a country with no free state media and which has actively assassinated dissenting voices.

 

I also think people are missing the point slightly with what's going on here too.

 

This isn't baout Georgia, or Russians in Georgia.

 

You need to look at what the Russians have been doing over the last five to ten years. Engaging in state-funded building projects designed to encourage national pride (such as the Evenk hydroelectric dam project), bringing back the old soviet anthem, reining in the media, changing the political system and making it virtually impossable for any other party to gain control, killing voices of opposition, having their first nuclear parade since the end of the cold war, rebuilding their surface fleet.

 

This is all just phase one, and I'll say again the paralells with the rebirth of a nationalistic Germany are unreal, the expressions on the Russian soldiers' faces is even the same as some of the photographs I've seen of Poland (we're back, get the fuck out of the way).

 

Tactics Truck, I see you've resorted to ad hominem arguements already, which is actually your M.O and has resulted in you getting banned what? twice? It takes more than copied and pasted Chomsky and a few insults to impress me son.

 

Getting a little less civil there I note, resorting to making baseless accusations when I haven't pasted anything, nice one desperado.

 

Tell me what MO means, answer at least some of my points and just try and make your response a little less pathetic and your on.

 

You did support the British activity in the Balkans, did you not, and if so you should be very quiet indeed about this sorts of ting.

[dennis tooth]

Only the other day this man was revelling in 'patriotism' and now accuses Russia of stirring up nationalistic tendencies....hypocritical in the extreme. Enough to give Jesus a heart attack.