Why we need a 20-goal a season striker...

[Nunavut Patrick]

The Sheriff moved some T's for daveu, which I know he will agree 100%.

[d.k.E.]

I do believe thats 100 posts... Well done d k E.

 

I thank you Drewy - dead easy this posting lark, all you need is the contentious issue of an ex-Liverpool player coming back to his former club OR a lanky ex-Southampton, QPR, Portsmouth, Aston Villa player to join the club OR an ageing ex-Galactico desparate for a last payday in the Mecca that is the Premier league (as created by Sky) who "loves" our club, and there you have it - over 100 posts. My next post will be: Nick Barmby's contribution to our Treble winning season was under-rated and as significant as Gary McAllister's...

[redrosetints]

Howie Kendall told me he's joining the Blues......

 

No he WOULD have done, but for Heysel.....

[Brownie]

Hey, this is great. One of my first posts and is has already generated some of the characteristic postings that make this forum what it is: 4 pages of posts, abuse, arguements on positions, and gossip and rumour...

 

Whilst I value the debate on Garcia's position, can I remind you of my original point - that we need a 20 goals a season player (in the prem) to close the gap. Now I dont care if Garcia play in his hole, up a mound or up his arse if he gets them, but he wont. Neither will Crouch, Morientes and nor, although this is more contentious, will Cisse. There are only a few players who do now: van Horseface (probably), Henry (consistently), A.N. Other who takes penalties from some bottom-half team that is probably relegated but will be hailed as the great white hope for the national team before disappearing (Andy Johnson)....and Michael Owen. Who buys him will get this return (IMHO)

 

You best get used to threads changing direction mate, that's the beauty of a forum!

 

It would be boring if everyone just replied 'yeah I agree' to your post.

 

By the way, I agree with your post ;)

[redrosetints]

Assume you meant me? Nothing would please me more to lose this bet, but you're on for 20 goals in the Premiership from Cisse.

 

I dont think we'll have anyone getting 20 goals this season. Not because I dont rate Cisse, or even Owen if he were with us, but because Rafas system is more dependent on Midfielders getting through and scoring goals. Crouchs signing was so crucial, because he's the type of player who can hold the ball up with his back to goal and bring others in. WE saw it last season, when Garcia, Gerrard and Riise all scored a fair few. So this year i expect us to score more, but not with one man bagging 30 (or even 20) but several players scoring 10 to 15 goals.

 

As evidence for this, remember the 90's ? Rushie, Fowler, Owen all banging the goals in left right and centre, yet we won very little. United on the other hand, had no striker score 20 goals for years. But they won most titles due to the fact, Scholes, Giggs and Beckham weighed in with a high number of goals. The more threats you have the more difficult it to defend, and the more you ask your mids to get forward and make runs, the more difficult it is for the defenders to pick them up. For further evidence look at Chelsea last season, Fwank, Robben and Duff all plundered alot of goals from midfield.

[Anubis]

Dave U is online. GET THE FUCK IN!!! Get on the phone Dave ;)

 

I love the idea of forumites demanding Dave U phones Carra everytime they want confirmation of a transfer (fairy?) story. Dave'll be getting done for stalking him.

[Uncle Travelling Matt]

I dont think we'll have anyone getting 20 goals this season. Not because I dont rate Cisse, or even Owen if he were with us, but because Rafas system is more dependent on Midfielders getting through and scoring goals. Crouchs signing was so crucial, because he's the type of player who can hold the ball up with his back to goal and bring others in. WE saw it last season, when Garcia, Gerrard and Riise all scored a fair few. So this year i expect us to score more, but not with one man bagging 30 (or even 20) but several players scoring 10 to 15 goals.

 

As evidence for this, remember the 90's ? Rushie, Fowler, Owen all banging the goals in left right and centre, yet we won very little. United on the other hand, had no striker score 20 goals for years. But they won most titles due to the fact, Scholes, Giggs and Beckham weighed in with a high number of goals. The more threats you have the more difficult it to defend, and the more you ask your mids to get forward and make runs, the more difficult it is for the defenders to pick them up. For further evidence look at Chelsea last season, Fwank, Robben and Duff all plundered alot of goals from midfield.

 

All very true, interesting post.......

[terry mac]

I dont think we'll have anyone getting 20 goals this season. Not because I dont rate Cisse, or even Owen if he were with us, but because Rafas system is more dependent on Midfielders getting through and scoring goals. Crouchs signing was so crucial, because he's the type of player who can hold the ball up with his back to goal and bring others in. WE saw it last season, when Garcia, Gerrard and Riise all scored a fair few. So this year i expect us to score more, but not with one man bagging 30 (or even 20) but several players scoring 10 to 15 goals.

 

As evidence for this, remember the 90's ? Rushie, Fowler, Owen all banging the goals in left right and centre, yet we won very little. United on the other hand, had no striker score 20 goals for years. But they won most titles due to the fact, Scholes, Giggs and Beckham weighed in with a high number of goals. The more threats you have the more difficult it to defend, and the more you ask your mids to get forward and make runs, the more difficult it is for the defenders to pick them up. For further evidence look at Chelsea last season, Fwank, Robben and Duff all plundered alot of goals from midfield.

 

very good points....Rafa even at Carra to get on the scoresheet

[Brownie]

I dont think we'll have anyone getting 20 goals this season. Not because I dont rate Cisse, or even Owen if he were with us, but because Rafas system is more dependent on Midfielders getting through and scoring goals. Crouchs signing was so crucial, because he's the type of player who can hold the ball up with his back to goal and bring others in. WE saw it last season, when Garcia, Gerrard and Riise all scored a fair few. So this year i expect us to score more, but not with one man bagging 30 (or even 20) but several players scoring 10 to 15 goals.

 

As evidence for this, remember the 90's ? Rushie, Fowler, Owen all banging the goals in left right and centre, yet we won very little. United on the other hand, had no striker score 20 goals for years. But they won most titles due to the fact, Scholes, Giggs and Beckham weighed in with a high number of goals. The more threats you have the more difficult it to defend, and the more you ask your mids to get forward and make runs, the more difficult it is for the defenders to pick them up. For further evidence look at Chelsea last season, Fwank, Robben and Duff all plundered alot of goals from midfield.

 

The only discrepancy being Arsenal - Henry gets at least 20 whilst the midfield chips in well through the likes of Pires and Ljungberg.

 

But overall I agree with you.

[MLB]

IF we sell Baros then bringing in Owen on loan might be a good idea. Otherwise it'll be a needless drain on our resources.

 

At the moment it doesn't look like Baros is going anywhere (although things can change pretty quickly I suppose) so I doubt we'll be moving for Owen. Plus, I reckon Rafa is more concerned with finding a right winger and centre half, and rightly so.

[Flight]

Why we need a 20-goal a season striker......called Michael Owen.

 

Watching last night, it hit me hard that, with the probable exclusion of Baros, we do not have a striker who will score 20 league goals in a season:

 

Mikey never did score 20 in a season.

 

 

Wish it would just hurry up and be settled so I know whether he is a vastly overrated little Welsh turncoat whose injuries cost him his main asset or whether he is one of our best ever forwards.

 

I think if he came back he would be better for us than he ever has been, but I also hope his legends are now Carra and SG instead of Lineker in an England shirt.

[d.k.E.]

I dont think we'll have anyone getting 20 goals this season. Not because I dont rate Cisse, or even Owen if he were with us, but because Rafas system is more dependent on Midfielders getting through and scoring goals. Crouchs signing was so crucial, because he's the type of player who can hold the ball up with his back to goal and bring others in. WE saw it last season, when Garcia, Gerrard and Riise all scored a fair few. So this year i expect us to score more, but not with one man bagging 30 (or even 20) but several players scoring 10 to 15 goals.

 

As evidence for this, remember the 90's ? Rushie, Fowler, Owen all banging the goals in left right and centre, yet we won very little. United on the other hand, had no striker score 20 goals for years. But they won most titles due to the fact, Scholes, Giggs and Beckham weighed in with a high number of goals. The more threats you have the more difficult it to defend, and the more you ask your mids to get forward and make runs, the more difficult it is for the defenders to pick them up. For further evidence look at Chelsea last season, Fwank, Robben and Duff all plundered alot of goals from midfield.

 

Good points and nothing to argue with there - and also a reason why I didnt slag off the Crouch move (it was almost so absurd there had to be a reason for it!). But notwithstanding the above, you would like to have a striker, a 'fox in the box' to quote Arsene, a one-on-oner who you would put your mortgage on, a goal-hanger a la Lineker, a predator a la Aldridge, who just by playing like that will get to 15+ goals however one plays...the guy that wins not only the cup finals in the last minute despite inferiority in the rest of the match, but also the ones against a shitty side which you expect to win against (where we have dropped too many points in recent months!)..and we dont have one at the moment (I dont think Cisse's most ardent fans would describe him as such!)

[drewy]

Mikey never did score 20 in a season.

 

 

Wish it would just hurry up and be settled so I know whether he is a vastly overrated little Welsh turncoat whose injuries cost him his main asset or whether he is one of our best ever forwards.

 

I think if he came back he would be better for us than he ever has been, but I also hope his legends are now Carra and SG instead of Lineker in an England shirt.

 

He was close though year in year out it 17, 18 odd. Don't forget he had a bad time with his hamstrings and never had a full season that I recall.

[Jose Jones]

Good points and nothing to argue with there - and also a reason why I didnt slag off the Crouch move (it was almost so absurd there had to be a reason for it!). But notwithstanding the above, you would like to have a striker, a 'fox in the box' to quote Arsene, a one-on-oner who you would put your mortgage on, a goal-hanger a la Lineker, a predator a la Aldridge, who just by playing like that will get to 15+ goals however one plays...the guy that wins not only the cup finals in the last minute despite inferiority in the rest of the match, but also the ones against a shitty side which you expect to win against (where we have dropped too many points in recent months!)..and we dont have one at the moment (I dont think Cisse's most ardent fans would describe him as such!)

 

Ah but if instead of your goal hanger, you play a more rounded forward (with perhaps less poaching skills) he brings other players in, holds the ball up and makes the team play better. Then you're not inferior for the first 80 minutes of the cup final and you're already 2 up on the shitty side.

[redrosetints]

The only discrepancy being Arsenal - Henry gets at least 20 whilst the midfield chips in well through the likes of Pires and Ljungberg.

 

But overall I agree with you.

 

Ian, there is always an exception to the rule, you know that ! :tease:

[Flight]

He was close though year in year out it 17, 18 odd. Don't forget he had a bad time with his hamstrings and never had a full season that I recall.

 

Didnt he only score 11 in his season before last and four of those were in one game against a weak side ? He was out for four weeks of that season though.

 

Overall his last two seasons weren't good enough.

 

If he comes back he will be the dogs bollocks if he doesnt he's a treacherous little T*** etc etc

[drewy]

http://uk.sports.yahoo.com/fo/profiles/3929.html

 

Some decent league stats there I'd say.

[d.k.E.]

Ah but if instead of your goal hanger, you play a more rounded forward (with perhaps less poaching skills) he brings other players in, holds the ball up and makes the team play better. Then you're not inferior for the first 80 minutes of the cup final and you're already 2 up on the shitty side.

 

You mean like Thierry Henry - who get the goals as well!! So, bearing in mind your description above, whic of our forwards is a rounded footballer,with a consistently great first touch, brings in players around him and holds the ball up? What I saw last night was one guy whose first touch was 50/50 (as commented in the match), is caught offside and seemed too rushed, another who despite having some nice touches 30 yards from goal (for a big lad) didnt muster a shot on goal, a Spaniard who I didnt notice at all, and no-one in the box for a series of crosses...so as I see it we have neither the goal-hanger nor the well-rounded footballer...so lets buy one!

[Jose Jones]

You mean like Thierry Henry - who get the goals as well!! So, bearing in mind your description above, whic of our forwards is a rounded footballer,with a consistently great first touch, brings in players around him and holds the ball up? What I saw last night was one guy whose first touch was 50/50 (as commented in the match), is caught offside and seemed too rushed, another who despite having some nice touches 30 yards from goal (for a big lad) didnt muster a shot on goal, a Spaniard who I didnt notice at all, and no-one in the box for a series of crosses...so as I see it we have neither the goal-hanger nor the well-rounded footballer...so lets buy one!

 

Yeah, let's buy Henry!

 

But I'm not going to disagree with you about our strikers - a lot of improvement needed alround from what we've seen so far. I was just trying to illustrate what I think is Rafa's point of view - getting forwards who can improve the team play. Whether we've got these players is another question.

[redrosetints]

Good points and nothing to argue with there - and also a reason why I didnt slag off the Crouch move (it was almost so absurd there had to be a reason for it!). But notwithstanding the above, you would like to have a striker, a 'fox in the box' to quote Arsene...

 

I agree with that, and thats why, if Baros goes, id expect us to get another striker of that type (Im making a great leap of faith here assuming youd agree Baros is our version of that!) but if we agree on that, then we agree. 8)

[WeAreTheBest]

BlueSquare have suspended betting on who Owen is joining while SkyBet have us as massive favourites to get him if he leaves Madrid at 2/1 the nearest after that is 10/1 Man Utd

[Red Nick]

I dont think we'll have anyone getting 20 goals this season. Not because I dont rate Cisse, or even Owen if he were with us, but because Rafas system is more dependent on Midfielders getting through and scoring goals. Crouchs signing was so crucial, because he's the type of player who can hold the ball up with his back to goal and bring others in. WE saw it last season, when Garcia, Gerrard and Riise all scored a fair few. So this year i expect us to score more, but not with one man bagging 30 (or even 20) but several players scoring 10 to 15 goals.

 

As evidence for this, remember the 90's ? Rushie, Fowler, Owen all banging the goals in left right and centre, yet we won very little. United on the other hand, had no striker score 20 goals for years. But they won most titles due to the fact, Scholes, Giggs and Beckham weighed in with a high number of goals. The more threats you have the more difficult it to defend, and the more you ask your mids to get forward and make runs, the more difficult it is for the defenders to pick them up. For further evidence look at Chelsea last season, Fwank, Robben and Duff all plundered alot of goals from midfield.

 

Very interesting post and your right the team with the out and out goal scorer never seems to win the title with Shearer and Henry being the exception to the rule but as Arsenal found out last season, stop Henry and you stop Arsenal winning the title.

 

This is exactly how Rafa won the title in La Liga ie top scorer in 1st title was Baraja with 12 or 13 goals but lots of other Goal Scorers and Mista was top Scorer 2nd time around with about 20 wheras Henry was 30 plus when Arsenal won the title.

[Red Nick]

So Sven would wish to see Owen play with Rooney well that should answer the question once and for all weather Owen really puts England before his club.

[Thants]

So Sven would wish to see Owen play with Rooney well that should answer the question once and for all weather Owen really puts England before his club.

 

 

Why would anyone listen to Sven? The man's a buffoon. :party:

[Skidfingers McGonical]

Why would anyone listen to Sven? The man's a buffoon. :party:

 

 

 

Yeah Mikey Owen would. Him and Beckham think Sven is ace. Sven is a twat and a joke. Looks like Mr Burns and Owen is Smithers.

 

 

I have a feeling that he wont go to United but somewhere stupid like Newcastle where he can be the biggest fish in a little pond, be top scorer and still be in Svens plans. He is nt a 20 goal a season striker for us and I cant believe people can say he is. When was the last fucking time he scored 20 goals in any season coz he certainly didnt do it last season but Forlan did. even Savo Milosevic scored more than Mikey in his first season in spain (probably wrong i know just being sarcastic). Gerrard stayed because his loyalty does lie with us and Mikeys never.