Coronavirus

[Strontium]

2 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

What very strange timing:

 

The debate around masks looks a lot like the arguments for and against seat belts

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/05/us/seat-belts-masks-coronavirus-wellness-trnd/index.html

 

The debates only look similar if you ignore the fact that seat belts don't inhibit breathing, and that seat belts are proven to work.

 

And just an FYI for the easily offended - when I say seat belts work, I'm not being inconsiderate to those who were killed in car accidents despite wearing seat belts.

[Bjornebye]

1 minute ago, Stront19m Dog™ said:

 

The debates only look similar if you ignore the fact that seat belts don't inhibit breathing, and that seat belts are proven to work.

 

And just an FYI for the easily offended - when I say seat belts work, I'm not being inconsiderate to those who were killed in car accidents despite wearing seat belts.

Easily offended? I don't remember anyone else off here messaging someones work on social media over a fall out on a forum..... Only you... 

[TheHowieLama]

51 minutes ago, Stront19m Dog™ said:

 

The debates only look similar if you ignore the fact that seat belts don't inhibit breathing, and that seat belts are proven to work.

 

And just an FYI for the easily offended - when I say seat belts work, I'm not being inconsiderate to those who were killed in car accidents despite wearing seat belts.

I assume you do know someone who has died in an auto accident?

[Bjornebye]

16 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

I assume you do know someone who has died in an auto accident?

He stays away for a bit when he has been made to look a cunt. It's his MO. He will be back when the discussion  changes. 

[Strontium]

40 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

I assume you do know someone who has died in an auto accident?

 

Doesn't everyone? Not sure why it would matter if I hadn't though.

[TheHowieLama]

Just now, Stront19m Dog™ said:

 

Doesn't everyone? Not sure why it would matter if I hadn't though.

I assumed everyone knew someone who had Covid as well.

[Strontium]

Just now, TheHowieLama said:

I assumed everyone knew someone who had Covid as well.

 

It's entirely possible I do, but since three quarters of people who get it are symptomless, we may never know.

[Barrington Womble]

On 04/08/2020 at 11:47, Stront19m Dog™ said:

 

Yep, silly me, I was working with the implied fatality rate around 0.3%, which I suspect is closer to the truer figure, but we'll have to wait and see. Nevertheless, the talk of 500,000 dead was... overly pessimistic, shall we say.

 

If 15-20% of the population has been infected, then I don't think we have that far to go at all, as it happens, since it's becoming increasingly clear that t-cell immunity means that you don't need the predicted 60% to get infected to achieve herd immunity.

I know this is a day old, just catching up. But hold on a minute. You said there was talk that there could be 500k deaths if left unchecked and that is pessimistic. Yet once you have stopped using your own maths and you have accepted the number in this country would be close to 400k using the mortality rate issued by the WHO of 0.6% had we all caught it. 

 

But you're working on an assumption that it would have been 0.6% had we done nothing. This seems highly unlikely. People would have caught it much more quickly. It would have completely finished our health service. But using a phrase from early on, we flattened the curve and this was done globally, almost every country locking down to suppress this virus. This meant according to the government (which perhaps is debatable, but we'll leave for any later inquest and go on face value for now) nobody was left without an ICU bed or ventilator they needed. It also meant as more time passed, we became better at finding treatments to help people in hospital and heading toward death, this bringing the mortality rate down. And it bought is time to get more Ppe and more ventilators. The more time we bought flattening the curve, the more lives we saved. We have achieved a 0.6% rate because we locked down and because we bought more time for both the NHS and researchers. This is a global solution and only on very few situations have the health services been completely overwhelmed and many countries have got their 1st spike much later as a consequence of lockdowns, so again buying time for improved treatments. It does not seem unreasonable that if we all caught this virus and that would cause 400k deaths at current mortality rates (which you accept), it could easily be 500k had we done fuck all. Lockdown both cut the spread AND decreased the mortality rate. Fortunately we didn't do fuck all and we're currently at 65k with hopefully a vaccine in sight. But there's a long way to go - 65k is fucking shite, but at least it's not 500k. 

 

Throughout this crisis you've continually played down this virus and this is just a continuation of this absolute shite. 

23 hours ago, MegadriveMan said:

 

Its this kind of bollocks that explains why the Tories have got a roaring majority. 

 

Do restaurants have to apply the discount? I thought it was their choice as to if they want to pass the savings on to the customer?

 

I think they have to register don't they? It's easy to find out, the government have set up a website for registered businesses - just stick in your postcode and it shows all in your area. 

[mattyq]

SD seems to be morphing into a Libertarian before our very eyes

I guess their antecedents are in Classic Liberalism so it shouldn't come as too much f a shock

SpyBee seems to be heading towards the quasi-religious end of things with his Hope & Faith over rational thought setup

I reckon people deal with big traumatic events in different ways

It'd be boring if everybody was the same

 

[Grinch]

Don't get people moaning about masks to the point where they refuse to wear one.   Not the nicest experience when you burp in one after a beer and a curry but hardly life altering for you.   Yet they help stop the spread, which only a fool would argue against and Covid is and has been life altering for hundreds of thousands oeoole. 

 

I can't even say selfish cunts cause that describes me to a tee and even I see why they're common sense in packed areas right now. 

[Strontium]

6 minutes ago, mattyq said:

SD seems to be morphing into a Libertarian before our very eyes

I guess their antecedents are in Classic Liberalism so it shouldn't come as too much f a shock

SpyBee seems to be heading towards the quasi-religious end of things with his Hope & Faith over rational thought setup

I reckon people deal with big traumatic events in different ways

It'd be boring if everybody was the same

 

I've always been a libertarian. Liberalism is about liberty, after all.

 

But it follows that liberty should be curtailed to protect others. The problem being that no evidence whatsoever has been presented to show that curtailing our liberties has protected a single soul.

 

If you want to change my mind, show me the evidence.

 

I don't think your charcterisation of Spy Bee is fair either. So far as I can see he is, like me, following the facts.

[Bjornebye]

2 minutes ago, Stront19m Dog™ said:

 

I've always been a libertarian. Liberalism is about liberty, after all.

 

But it follows that liberty should be curtailed to protect others. The problem being that no evidence whatsoever has been presented to show that curtailing our liberties has protected a single soul.

 

If you want to change my mind, show me the evidence.

 

I don't think your charcterisation of Spy Bee is fair either. So far as I can see he is, like me, following the facts.

The facts being that you posted into Spy Bees work social media to get him sacked over a neg. 

[Strontium]

1 minute ago, Bjornebye said:

The facts being that you posted into Spy Bees work social media to get him sacked over a neg. 

 

I think if he can get over it, you should too.

[Bjornebye]

Just now, Stront19m Dog™ said:

 

I think if he can get over it, you should too.

Not when you have the cheek to call people easily offended.

[mattyq]

28 minutes ago, Stront19m Dog™ said:

 

I've always been a libertarian. Liberalism is about liberty, after all.

 

But it follows that liberty should be curtailed to protect others. The problem being that no evidence whatsoever has been presented to show that curtailing our liberties has protected a single soul.

 

If you want to change my mind, show me the evidence.

 

I don't think your charcterisation of Spy Bee is fair either. So far as I can see he is, like me, following the facts.

I don't really want to change your mind, mate

I'm happy to read your & SpyBee's views on this

I think you're both as mad as a box of frogs but that's neither here nor there

It was SpyBee's bodies in Conway tunnel plan and your 'Covid is just bad flu' trope that told me that rational thought has left the house and it's not coming back anytime soon and that's ok

We all are semi rational at the best of times or as a very wise man once said, 'We are all but dust and shadows'

[Neil G]

1 hour ago, Stront19m Dog™ said:

 

I've always been a libertarian. Liberalism is about liberty, after all.

 

But it follows that liberty should be curtailed to protect others. The problem being that no evidence whatsoever has been presented to show that curtailing our liberties has protected a single soul.

 

If you want to change my mind, show me the evidence.

 

I don't think your charcterisation of Spy Bee is fair either. So far as I can see he is, like me, following the facts.

I assume you’re talking specifically about masks here, as opposed to in general.

[Strontium]

Correct.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Stront19m Dog™ said:

Correct.

What would your response be to someone asking for evidence that a parachute will definitely prevent you from dying when there are stats that show using a parachute jumping out of a plane does not guarantee that you will survive. However your odds are greatly improved if you decide to wear and use it. 

 

I personally wouldn't demand evidence that my chances improve, I would simply trust in the fact that if someone advised me to do it in my best interests then I would agree to it.

 

Would you wear a parachute without evidence? 

[Strontium]

The evidence that parachutes work is incontrovertible. That's a very poor analogy. 

[TheHowieLama]

He may have meant over your face, not on your back.

[Jose Jones]

1 hour ago, Stront19m Dog™ said:

The evidence that parachutes work is incontrovertible. That's a very poor analogy. 

When was the last time you did a review of the most recent scientific literature around face masks? E.g. the spread of COVID through droplets, the ability of masks including fabric ones of preventing droplet spray, behavioural studies of mask use, epidemiological ones of COVID spread in areas of different face mask use, etc?

[Mudface]

Still think Pie's hyperbole sums this up perfectly-

 

 

[E L Wisty voice] "I find it difficult to breathe with a mask on."

 

[Pie] "If you seriously struggle to breathe with a thin bit of cloth on your face then you're probably in the high risk category for Covid 19 and as such, you really need to put a fucking mask on. Yes they're uncomfortable, yes they steam your glasses up, yes they chafe your ears. I'll tell you what's worse though- a fucking ventilator."

 

Of all the things to get on your civil liberties high horse about, objecting to wearing a mask in the shops or on a bus to help protect others is bordering on ridiculous.

[Spy Bee]

11 hours ago, mattyq said:

SpyBee seems to be heading towards the quasi-religious end of things with his Hope & Faith over rational thought setup

I reckon people deal with big traumatic events in different ways

It'd be boring if everybody was the same

 

Listen to Jennifer fucking Melfi over here!

 

What exactly have I posted that verges on the quasi-religious end of things? I won't hold my breath waiting for a response.

10 hours ago, mattyq said:

It was SpyBee's bodies in Conway tunnel plan and your 'Covid is just bad flu' trope that told me that rational thought has left the house and it's not coming back anytime soon and that's ok

We all are semi rational at the best of times or as a very wise man once said, 'We are all but dust and shadows'

If they were following the known facts at the time, they would have had to make a plan to deal with a 5% death rate (IFR). If the virus could have infected up to 80% of the population and 5% of those infected would have died, then that's circa 2.6m deaths. Is it really that mad, that they would have a contingency plan for where to store these bodies?

 

Anyway, you keep heckling.

[Spy Bee]

 

 

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Stront19m Dog™ said:

The evidence that parachutes work is incontrovertible. That's a very poor analogy. 

Show it to me, please?

 

(Would it surprise you to learn that it is estimated that between 3000 and 5000 parachutes per year are involved in some kind of malfunction claim?)

 

Disclaimer: Apologies to anyone who has been or knows someone who has been involved in a parachute accident.