The Atomic bombing of Nagasaki

[Rico1304]

Yes, they were both extradited and stood trial for war crimes before being hung.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contest_to_kill_100_people_using_a_sword#Trial_and_execution

 

The US military slapped a few soldiers on the wrist and told them not to do it again. Even Roosevelt had a knife given to him made out of the arm bone from a Japanese soldier which he remarked "this is the kind of present i like to get" and Life magazine published this in 1944

 

 

A woman writing to her hubby in the Navy thanking him for sending her a Japanese mans skull. I'm not sure but i don't think anyone in the US Army was ever prosecuted for it.

What? That article says they were lauded at home and then executed by China, not Japan.

[Section_31]

Alas, Mr Takagi, I knew him.

[Bjornebye]

Yes, they were both extradited and stood trial for war crimes before being hung.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contest_to_kill_100_people_using_a_sword#Trial_and_execution

 

The US military slapped a few soldiers on the wrist and told them not to do it again. Even Roosevelt had a knife given to him made out of the arm bone from a Japanese soldier which he remarked "this is the kind of present i like to get" and Life magazine published this in 1944

 

 

A woman writing to her hubby in the Navy thanking him for sending her a Japanese mans skull. I'm not sure but i don't think anyone in the US Army was ever prosecuted for it.

 

Imagine. "You shot dead the japanese soldier then sent his skull home as some sort of sick trophy, I sentence you to 20 years hard labour for murder and bringing the american army into disrepute"

 

"erm....... you nuked the fuckers?"

 

"get in the bin" 

[Carvalho Diablo]

Bloody Lacist...

 

Speak Ingrish.

[Carvalho Diablo]

Alas, Mr Takagi, I knew him.

 

[M_B]

They had no need at all to invade japan it was dropped to shit Russia up in fact and again demonising entire people is racist you can't be scientific and racist again your only defending this because it happens to be your team who did it the end

 

 

Whether it was Dresden, Tokyo, Chongqing, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, or anywhere else, there's no way of justifying bombing civilians. You can't justify it by saying it shortened the war either, because ways of resolving the conflict that placed the safety of civilians at the forefront could have been used instead.

 

 

So the argument for the use of atomic bombs is speculating that 'more' civilians would have died of they hadn't been dropped.

 

My fucking word. Talk about completely missing the point. Anyone who tries to justify atomic bombs is a grade a nuclear cunt.

 

 

Which was what, blockade japan with no fuel and running out of food until subdued enough by that and being the last man standing on the losing side surrender its islands hardly constitued a threat to russia the usa china us and all the other allies. Where was the actual need to invade? We could have offered food and supplies to anyone in the populace who surrended and came off the island to drop a nuke without warning is betterthan the simple solution?

 

 

The Japanese had no intention of surrendering unconditionally. Their aim was to exploit the allies unwillingness to fight to the very end in order to force a conditional surrender.

 

Without the bombs, or at least a sustained heavy bombing campaign, the Allies would have needed to invade and they would have needed to do it quickly to prevent russian expansion into Korea.

[Boss]

What? That article says they were lauded at home and then executed by China, not Japan.

 

War crimes are usually put to trial in the country were the war crime occurred or they're extradited to a neutral country, rarely does a country try one of their own unless it's for crimes against their own country, like Bradley Manning. I'm sure it happens though, it's just not the norm.

[Section_31]

The use of an atom bomb is of course horrific, but I think there's too much of a tendancy to judge America's actions back then the way we would now. 

 

That USA was a completely different beast and had to be dragged literally kicking and screaming into world affairs at the point of bombs and torpedoes dropped by Mitsubishi planes. 

 

They got their hands on a dreadful weapon (which the axis nations were also working on) and used it to do what any ultimate weapon should be used for - to put the fear of god so far into the enemy that they stop resisting you. 

[Bjornebye]

It was wrong. Nobody capable of doing something that bad is forced into it. "Oh me maa burnt me toast so I had no choice but to stab the cunt" it just doesn't wash with me and i'm sure they feel bad that i'm pissed with them as well.

[dennis tooth]

The use of an atom bomb is of course horrific, but I think there's too much of a tendancy to judge America's actions back then the way we would now. 

 

That USA was a completely different beast and had to be dragged literally kicking and screaming into world affairs at the point of bombs and torpedoes dropped by Mitsubishi planes. 

 

They got their hands on a dreadful weapon (which the axis nations were also working on) and used it to do what any ultimate weapon should be used for - to put the fear of god so far into the enemy that they stop resisting you. 

 

 

Very romatic I can see your journo and story telling narratives is your pride and joy.

[dennis tooth]

The Japanese had no intention of surrendering unconditionally. Their aim was to exploit the allies unwillingness to fight to the very end in order to force a conditional surrender.

 

Without the bombs, or at least a sustained heavy bombing campaign, the Allies would have needed to invade and they would have needed to do it quickly to prevent russian expansion into Korea.

 

Are you telling me Japan was going to force the world to surrender with no fuel left for their food and heating?

 

Then you are trying to say also to try to manufacture urgency (In an effort to justify dropping nukes on japanese babies whom you can claim to know the intention of) by bringing korea and russia into it? 

 

Come on now.

 

Look at yourself, you are a mess of propaganda that doesnt even make sense to you.

[RedBadger]

I haven't read the whole thread so apologies for that.

 

My uncle spent his 21st birthday as a prisoner of the japs in Rangoon and never recovered either physically or mentally before his death about 40 years later.

 

He didn't say a lot about what they did to the POWs but enough to so I understand the brutallity of what they routinely infliceted on them.

 

If you are interested read this 

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Forgotten-Highlander-Incredible-Survival-During-ebook/dp/B00371V8ZU/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1439838129&sr=1-1&keywords=forgotten+highlander

 

which reinforces the things he told me.

[M_B]

Are you telling me Japan was going to force the world to surrender with no fuel left for their food and heating?

 

Then you are trying to say also to try to manufacture urgency (In an effort to justify dropping nukes on japanese babies whom you can claim to know the intention of) by bringing korea and russia into it? 

 

Come on now.

 

Look at yourself, you are a mess of propaganda that doesnt even make sense to you.

 

What?

 

The Japanese wanted to surrender conditionally. The Allies wanted an unconditional surrender. Do you understand the difference?

 

The Japanese knew they were beaten, but they wanted to have a say in the surrender terms and they decided to do that by making every advance on Japanese territory expensive. I can't put it any more simply than that.

 

This is accepted fact by the majority of military historians, including Japanese ones.

[dennis tooth]

What?

 

The Japanese wanted to surrender conditionally. The Allies wanted an unconditional surrender. Do you understand the difference?

 

The Japanese knew they were beaten, but they wanted to have a say in the surrender terms and they decided to do that by making every advance on Japanese territory expensive. I can't put it any more simply than that.

 

This is accepted fact by the majority of military historians, including Japanese ones.

 

Whats that got to do with anything being said? We are discussing whether a land invasion of a surrounded bunch of islands that had run out of fuel and food becoming scarcer, was even necessary nevermind dropping nukes. 

However I know why you wrote what you wrote here so its ok you dont need to reply.

[Red Phoenix]

There, that wasn't too hard was it? I didn't know about the camps, thanks, very interesting.

If you didn't know about the camps, then why did you say that nothing Boss had stated was a war crime? You didn't even know about them but you still knew they weren't a war crime? This was after you told him to fact check each of his claims (in his "rant") as well, maybe you should've done that yourself first.

[Rico1304]

 

 

If you didn't know about the camps, then why did you say that nothing Boss had stated was a war crime? You didn't even know about them but you still knew they weren't a war crime? This was after you told him to fact check each of his claims (in his "rant") as well, maybe you should've done that yourself first.

Ha ha ha ha is that a standard you apply to yourself? You'd never post anything.

[Section_31]

Whats that got to do with anything being said? We are discussing whether a land invasion of a surrounded bunch of islands that had run out of fuel and food becoming scarcer, was even necessary nevermind dropping nukes.

However I know why you wrote what you wrote here so its ok you dont need to reply.

You do generally win wars through conquest rather than leaving the enemy alone, it's been that way for some time.

 

Besides which the Russians would have been all over that shit and we could have had a Tokyo wall (which sounds like a rather awesome name for a Jean Michelle Jarre album)

[Red Phoenix]

Ha ha ha ha is that a standard you apply to yourself? You'd never post anything.

 

Yeah I fact check. It's what I do before a lot of posts actually, even if I do get it wrong at times. And when I get it wrong I try to apologize (and then sometimes get ridiculed for apologizing as well, strange. Maybe honesty is a sign of weakness to some.)

 

I thought you'd do this as well, so no surprise. Was imagining similar responses hours before I saw your reply. Ignore your own completely stupid post and deflect the whole thing onto someone else instead (is it supposed to intimidate others from pointing out the same level of bullshit or something?) It's so obvious it's boring. You made an idiot of yourself, admit it. Maybe apologize to Boss too, or are you too much of a big manly man for that?

 

Maybe all you can manage is what you already did, a patronizing "There, that wasn't too hard was it?" No it probably fucking wasn't, should've tried it yourself.

 

And by the way, if you can find an example of me telling someone to "fact check" in such a stupid way as you did back there, at the same time as not actually fact checking, then fair enough. You made a complete twat of yourself, probably out of a reflex action because you couldn't handle the fucked up truth of the post. Deal with it.

[M_B]

Whats that got to do with anything being said? We are discussing whether a land invasion of a surrounded bunch of islands that had run out of fuel and food becoming scarcer, was even necessary nevermind dropping nukes. 

However I know why you wrote what you wrote here so its ok you dont need to reply.

 

The Allies were planning a land invasion so they certainly thought it a possibility. And the Japanese were preparing extensive land fortifications.

 

But you are right in that continuing the air bombing campaign (which had been going on for around 4 months with mass firebombings of cities that killed, wounded and displaced far more victims than the Atomic Bombs) would have probably had the same result, albeit with far more casualties on both sides.

 

A sea blockade may have brought Japan to the table eventually, but again it would have caused mass starvation amoungst civilians (as the military would have kept the food) and it may have taken years. It would also have cost the allies a lot of ships, as they discovered at Okinawa.

 

Did the Allies drop it as a demonstration to Stalin? Odd if they did considering they told Stalin about the bombs at Potsdam (and his spy network knew all about the American Atomic Bomb program).

[Rico1304]

Yeah I fact check. It's what I do before a lot of posts actually, even if I do get it wrong at times. And when I get it wrong I try to apologize (and then sometimes get ridiculed for apologizing as well, strange. Maybe honesty is a sign of weakness to some.)

 

I thought you'd do this as well, so no surprise. Was imagining similar responses hours before I saw your reply. Ignore your own completely stupid post and deflect the whole thing onto someone else instead (is it supposed to intimidate others from pointing out the same level of bullshit or something?) It's so obvious it's boring. You made an idiot of yourself, admit it. Maybe apologize to Boss too, or are you too much of a big manly man for that?

 

Maybe all you can manage is what you already did, a patronizing "There, that wasn't too hard was it?" No it probably fucking wasn't, should've tried it yourself.

 

And by the way, if you can find an example of me telling someone to "fact check" in such a stupid way as you did back there, at the same time as not actually fact checking, then fair enough. You made a complete twat of yourself, probably out of a reflex action because you couldn't handle the fucked up truth of the post. Deal with it.

Have you been drinking your bottle of beer again? I admitted I didn't know about it, thanked you and said it was interesting. I'd have come round and pulled you off but I don't have access to the third realm.

[xerxes]

We are discussing whether a land invasion of a surrounded bunch of islands that had run out of fuel and food becoming scarcer, was even necessary nevermind dropping nukes.

I think there is little doubt that Japan would have fought ferociously in any land invasion costing hundreds of thousands of lives on both sides.

 

An undefeated Japan would have been a festering sore, much as Germany was after WW1. Geopolitically the West, Russia and China needed Japan to unconditionally surrender.

 

The result of Japan's unconditional surrender has been seventy years of peace in an area previously volatile and uncertain.

 

I am against nuclear weapons. Yet in war, when you are killed, it doesn't really matter whether it is by a bayonet, bullet, conventional bomb, or nuclear one- all leave you dead. Japan would have been prepared to sacrifice hundreds of thousands of its citizens in defence of its homeland, the Allies were prepared to sacrifice fewer to end the conflict.

 

War is a nasty business

[Mook]

I think there is little doubt that Japan would have fought ferociously in any land invasion costing hundreds of thousands of lives on both sides.

 

An undefeated Japan would have been a festering sore, much as Germany was after WW1. Geopolitically the West, Russia and China needed Japan to unconditionally surrender.

 

The result of Japan's unconditional surrender has been seventy years of peace in an area previously volatile and uncertain.

 

I am against nuclear weapons. Yet in war, when you are killed, it doesn't really matter whether it is by a bayonet, bullet, conventional bomb, or nuclear one- all leave you dead. Japan would have been prepared to sacrifice hundreds of thousands of its citizens in defence of its homeland, the Allies were prepared to sacrifice fewer to end the conflict.

 

War is a nasty business

 

Bayonets & bullets don't leave hundreds or thousands of people with radiation poisoning.

 

I take your point but a nuclear bomb is something completely different altogether.

[Red Phoenix]

Have you been drinking your bottle of beer again? I admitted I didn't know about it, thanked you and said it was interesting. I'd have come round and pulled you off but I don't have access to the third realm.

 

Nope, have you been drinking? It wasn't even me you said that too, it was Boss. You'll fucking drive me to drink like this, I'm out of here!

[Rico1304]

Bayonets & bullets don't leave hundreds or thousands of people with radiation poisoning.

 

I take your point but a nuclear bomb is something completely different altogether.

So as the war time leader you'd be happy for hundreds of thousands of your own troops to die in a land war, prolong a war that has killed millions of your countrymen and brought the UK to its knees financially in order to protect the enemy?

[Mook]

So as the war time leader you'd be happy for hundreds of thousands of your own troops to die in a land war, prolong a war that has killed millions of your countrymen and brought the UK to its knees financially in order to protect the enemy?

 

No.

 

I've said earlier in the thread that I'm not sure the bombing of Nagasaki was the right thing or not.

 

I was merely pointing out that dropping a nuclear bomb has far more sinister lasting effects than killing people by other, more conventional means.