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Rafa Benitez not to blame for Liverpool FC's awful start

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Guest PurpleNose
It's fortunate that clubs don't have to pay players wages or that cost would have to be included in what a club spends on players as well.

 

Are you suggesting being able to pay higher wages may enable you to achieve more success?

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Guest PurpleNose
Obviously, look at what we get for Maxi's £90,000-a-week.

 

I can't believe he didn't sign for Rochdale.

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That's what I and others on here quietly said on this forum in the weeks/days leading up to him going. At that time shouters would say 'anyone would be better than Rafa'.

 

Good post, must admit I'm surprised at the level of good will Roy has with the national press. I knew he was a favourite of theirs but the level of support (and outright lies to support) are unprecedented.

 

Spot on

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i am off to the san siro to see the milan derby in 2 weeks time, the only hero worth watching...

 

Perhaps you need to give up this whole "support a club" nonsense and make this hero worship thing permanent. Because, by God, Rafa was NOT a saviour. He was a good manager who did his best, and achieved success, but it all got too much for him at the end. That's it. Maybe Inter is the place for you with that gushing, sycophantic attitude.

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Perhaps you need to give up this whole "support a club" nonsense and make this hero worship thing permanent. Because, by God, Rafa was NOT a saviour. He was a good manager who did his best, and achieved success, but it all got too much for him at the end. That's it. Maybe Inter is the place for you with that gushing, sycophantic attitude.

 

Give Rafa a break. Don't forget he spent the last 6 months of his time here in protracted negotiations with at least two other clubs, while his current team was going down the pan.

 

Hero indeed.

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Funny how those who wanted Benitez out so badly don't seem to be able to point one single fucking improvement in the team since he's gone. Neither can they produce any solid evidence that the much needed new manager is even the slightest bit competent.

 

Good article - hopefully we will see more telling it straight rather than regurgitating a load of spoon fed idiocy.

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Obviously, look at what we get for Maxi's £90,000-a-week.

 

He's on 70 000 a week according to Argie and Spanish press. That's the fact, the word your coaching hero likes:) But as you raised the issue of wagebill, I guess you know wagebill tends to reflect the leading teams position in the table to a degree of 92%. What's more, Liverpool under Rafa had a wage structure lower than Arsenal on numerous occassions, averaging 3-4th in the league, 5th right now, 4th according to some other sources. If you combine wagelist and transfer Kitty, Fergie outspent Rafa easily. Not to mention Mancs' stabilised youth set-up, providing them with many talented youngsters, which is biggest Rafa legacy and heritage he left. Developing young talent can save you money in the market and enables you to boost your kitty, something we've recently started selling the likes of Michaylov and San Jose, both for well over 4 mln pounds.

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1. Yes.

2. No fucking way (and anyway, one that was promised he could leave the club)

3. No fucking way

4. No fucking way

5. Who is in terminal decline now

6. All of who are limited in certain aspects that unbalance the team

7. Yes.

8. No, but it had a hollow core of players with limited creativity and gradually devolving passing abilities.

 

When you quote me, please include the full quote, namely I said arguably the best in the world in their positions

 

Lets go to only the nos

 

2-4, name me 5 players who are better rated as defensive midfielders, all round midfielders and strikers in their individual positions than Masch, Gerrard and Torres?

 

Torres is not in decline. The team is just not playing to his strengths. There were more chances once they started pressing again like against Blackburn

 

5) Carra is indeed in decline. However, no top manager would play him in CB besides Rafa. Why? Because Rafa uses zonal marking which emphasizes formations and strategy in defending, rather than attributes (which was never Carra's strength)

 

6) Funny, they don't unbalance their national teams (except for Johnson), and play in exactly the same positions there. These are top national teams too.

 

8) Whose fault was it then? Where did the Alonso money go when Rafa wanted to buy Silva after purchasing Aquilani? Why did we loan out Aquilani who is doing well at Juve? Why aren't we playing our next big thing from Spain ? Why in the merry go round of creative players (Van Der Vaart, Benayoun, Silva, Cole), we got the free one, who coincidentally is the crappiest one?

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He's on 70 000 a week according to Argie and Spanish press. That's the fact, the word your coaching hero likes:) But as you raised the issue of wagebill, I guess you know wagebill tends to reflect the leading teams position in the table to a degree of 92%. What's more, Liverpool under Rafa had a wage structure lower than Arsenal on numerous occassions, averaging 3-4th in the league, 5th right now, 4th according to some other sources. If you combine wagelist and transfer Kitty, Fergie outspent Rafa easily. Not to mention Mancs' stabilised youth set-up, providing them with many talented youngsters, which is biggest Rafa legacy and heritage he left. Developing young talent can save you money in the market and enables you to boost your kitty, something we've recently started selling the likes of Michaylov and San Jose, both for well over 4 mln pounds.

 

The next one of Rafa's brilliant youth players to establish himself in the starting eleven, will be the first one.

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8) Whose fault was it then? Where did the Alonso money go when Rafa wanted to buy Silva after purchasing Aquilani? Why did we loan out Aquilani who is doing well at Juve? Why aren't we playing our next big thing from Spain ? Why in the merry go round of creative players (Van Der Vaart, Benayoun, Silva, Cole), we got the free one, who coincidentally is the crappiest one?

 

Well, I dislike Roy more than Rafa, so you're preaching to the converted. I was just trying to stop the sudden glorification of Rafa's tenure in the last three years or so, just because Roy is like 100 times worse in terms of on-field tactics.

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The next one of Rafa's brilliant youth players to establish himself in the starting eleven, will be the first one.

 

Well, the Academy was in a bloody mess, but Rafa was almost as bad as Roy in not trusting promising young players, but rather going for absolute deadwood in the form of Voronin, Degen, El Zhar, Zenden etc.

 

A manager with a spirit of adventure AND competence: is that too much to ask?

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It's rather a pointless argument, but I had much less faith in Rafa ever cracking the league. There was something fundamnetally fragile in the mindset he instilled over the course of a season, meaning we always went through crippling periods of utter tosh that derailed us.

 

less than Hodgson? I really can understand people doubting rafa as it did all go a bit pear shaped at the end, but i see very little in Hodgson to make me think that he is in any way better equipped to crack the prem.

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8) Whose fault was it then? Where did the Alonso money go when Rafa wanted to buy Silva after purchasing Aquilani? Why did we loan out Aquilani who is doing well at Juve? Why aren't we playing our next big thing from Spain ? Why in the merry go round of creative players (Van Der Vaart, Benayoun, Silva, Cole), we got the free one, who coincidentally is the crappiest one?

 

 

Joe Cole is ten times the player Benayoun is, not his fault he is working under a gash manager

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You're letting yourselves off the hook too easily. The removal of Rafa and the arrival of Hodgson (or another manager of similar calibre) were NOT seperate events.

 

We had a manager with an excellent pedigree (2 La Liga's), and who had already achieved some great things with Liverpool (1 European Cup, 1 FA Cup, runners up in European Cup and League).

 

And more importantly, he had demonstrated a willingness to fight his corner in a screwed up club, where another manager of similar calibre would just have said "FUCK YOU" and walked off to another top club.

 

(seconds after he leaves Liverpool, the reigning European and Italian champions come knocking at his door)

 

The boo boys were told, time and again, that whatever his mistakes, force Rafa out now and his replacement would be nowhere near his pedigree. The boo boys were salivating over Mourinho (sickening), Hiddink, etc.

 

That was all a lie. You were lying to yourselves, and everyone else. In the pre-NESV climate, the ONLY type of manager we would have gotten to replace Rafa is exactly the type we HAVE gotten.

 

The boo boys were all told this, repeatedly. So they can't claim now that their hands are clean. They asked for it. They got it.

 

 

Spot on.

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Joe Cole is ten times the player Benayoun is, not his fault he is working under a gash manager

 

Based on what exactly?

 

Cole is shit for England. Can't get into the Chelsea team anymore.

 

How many times has Yossi got us the winning goal the last 2 seasons? When Gerrard and Torres aren't firing, its Kuyt and Benayoun who used to score 10 goals a season for us.

 

Benayoun: app goals (Liverpool only)

2007–08 47 11

2008–09 42 9

2009–10 45 9

 

Cole: app goals (Chelsea only)

2003–04 50 3

2004–05 46 9

2005–06 46 11

2006–07 24 2

2007–08 54 10

2008–09 19 3

2009–10 39 2

 

Ten times better. Yeah right

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It's rather a pointless argument, but I had much less faith in Rafa ever cracking the league. There was something fundamnetally fragile in the mindset he instilled over the course of a season, meaning we always went through crippling periods of utter tosh that derailed us.

 

Yes; those 82pt and 86pt hauls were crippling indeed. We punched above our weight because we had an excptional manager. The mere fact that the expectation to win the title from a lot of those who wanted him out show's how ridiculous their argument is.

 

It's been said before, but Rafa has managed us through the most difficult period in our recent history and competed against the most powerful clubs in any given era and still made us challenge without ever being on an even keel.

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Cole and Yossi are both very similar players, Id prefer Cole though because he tends to have more of an impact from the start and thats what he we lacked from Yossi when he played here.

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Cole and Yossi are both very similar players, Id prefer Cole though because he tends to have more of an impact from the start and thats what he we lacked from Yossi when he played here.

 

I disagree completely

 

Yossi was a matchwinner for us. When Torres or Gerrard wasn't on top form, he was the one who created something or scored.

 

On the other hand, Cole was a luxury player for Chelsea. Only scores when they were already winning. Nearly never the match winner.

 

Thats the main difference,

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I disagree completely

 

Yossi was a matchwinner for us. When Torres or Gerrard wasn't on top form, he was the one who created something or scored.

 

On the other hand, Cole was a luxury player for Chelsea. Only scores when they were already winning. Nearly never the match winner.

 

Thats the main difference,

 

He scored the winner for Chelsea 3 times against us and he scored a few vital goals for them aswell.

 

Yossi was an impact sub for us.

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I think the main arguments are focused around the fact that Rafa supporters think that the ones who wanted him out actually support Roy and think he's better. And that the anti-Rafa brigade are somehow responsible for the mess we're in. I don't and never have thought Roy was fit for the role but I also thought it was time for Rafa to go.

 

I was one of Rafa's most ardent supporters on here and I still think he should have stayed (yes I do understand why he left). I know that most of the people who want Rafa out didn't want Hodgson in. The most popular names I remember were Kenny, Pellegrini and for some bizzare reason, Mourinho. My ideal succeeder to Rafa would have been Pellegrini but like I said I wanted Rafa to stay.

 

I also do not believe that the Anti-Rafa brigade are responsible. The blame rests with the owners, players and both Rafa and Roy.

 

I think the general point those that were extremely pro Rafa would argue is that the two actions, removal of Rafa, and who he's replaced with, can't be viewed completely in isolation.

 

You (anyone, not you in particular) may have, in normal circumstances, thought the manager should be sacked, but it was fairly clear he was going to be replaced by a vastly inferior one.

 

All completely irrelevant now of course. Yet we get an article like this once a week, and several a week from the gang of xenophobes in the press who are clinging onto the hope Hodgson is going to turn things around, as soon as he shakes off the last remains of evil Rafa's destruction of the club.

 

They all need to fuck off really.

 

As a great man once said, "he's gone, get over it".

 

They can be viewed in isolation. There were many possible contenders to replace Rafa, unfortunately we picked the worst option...

 

Fuckwits very disrespectful there mate considering nothing has been proven, its all rumours.

In saying that, there are definently questions to be answered. But referring to them like that is out of order.

 

What are these rumours? I've seen a lot of shite going their way over the past few weeks and I don't know why. Anyone able to PM me about this?

 

Man United managed to win the league 3 times during Rafa's tenure, despite spending less than Rafa. The Glazer's have not bank rolled them.

 

This may be down to them having already won numerous titles before Rafa arrived and having a title winning squad whilst Rafa had to build our squad.

 

Obviously, look at what we get for Maxi's £90,000-a-week.

 

He is actually on 70k a week including bonuses... Don't let facts get in the way though.

 

Cole and Yossi are both very similar players, Id prefer Cole though because he tends to have more of an impact from the start and thats what he we lacked from Yossi when he played here.

 

I think Cole would have been an amazing player for us under Rafa and he will turn out good when Roy goes.

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