Cameron: "Cuts will change our way of life"

[stringvest]

I don't see how a company can justify paying out £1.4 billion in bonuses yet threaten 12,000 people with losing their job at the same time?

 

I also don't think people should bonuses for doing their job either. You get your salary for doing what is in your job description.

 

it's in their job description mate.  Well in their Ts and Cs at least

[Rico1304]

I don't see how a company can justify paying out £1.4 billion in bonuses yet threaten 12,000 people with losing their job at the same time?

 

I also don't think people should bonuses for doing their job either. You get your salary for doing what is in your job description.

In your world Stig only the shareholders would get rewarded if a business does well, why not let the workers share in that?this is another example of the inconsistency in arguments in this thread. Tube workers = good workers, banks (and utilities) = bad workers.

 

Maybe (and I don't know) that the 12k jobs work in unprofitable areas, or have been replaced by tech (then blame SD ;-)

[Skidfingers McGonical]

it's in their job description mate

 

But it is something that can be removed at any time.

 

Would it not be in their contract as oposed to their job description. Anwhere I have worked that has had a bonus/commission scheme has had it written into their contract and stated it can be removed at any time as it is not part of their fixed salary. 

 

Obviously unless it is commission based of course, which I am asumming is what you are saying there stringy.

[Stickman]

Its amazing how shit a fight labour are putting up. There is no fucking way on earth they can be described as a party on the left. We essentially have. Varying degrees of Tory. How many years do you think until our current version of capitalism goes completely tits up.

 

Where's the politicians on the left with some fucking bollocks and ideas. Milliband is a fucking coward, don't make any real promises don't rock the boat too much and we could win power anyway by default. No conviction he's a shithouse as is the whole of labour. I feel dirty having to vote for them but nothing is worse than these utter sick fucks in the coalition. Banks and the city of London I'd love for the sewers to burst and watch the emergency services trying to separate the turds from the men of finance. The world is brimming the chatter is growing

 

 

I genuinely don't think Labour and Milliband want to be elected, I have never seen such a piss poor oppostion party when they have so much ammuntion to use and fail to do fuck all with it.

If they do manage to fluke the next election it will be more by luck than anything else....

[Rico1304]

Why the neg? What have I said that's so unpalatable?

[Skidfingers McGonical]

In your world Stig only the shareholders would get rewarded if a business does well, why not let the workers share in that?

 

Maybe (and I don't know) that the 12k jobs work in unprofitable areas, or have been replaced by tech (then blame SD ;-)

Negged for calling me Stig.

That cuts rico. Cuts fucking deep.

 

Does my head in that  "This department deosn't make us any money"  "Yeah that would be my department you twat (not you rico) the training department, which really is profitiable as it helps train people be more effiicient and make the company more fucking money"

 

The money should go back into the business to ensure all service users get the service they expect and also that employees get a salary that rises witht the cost of living etc.

[Rico1304]

But it is something that can be removed at any time.

 

Would it not be in their contract as oposed to their job description. Anwhere I have worked that has had a bonus/commission scheme has had it written into their contract and stated it can be removed at any time as it is not part of their fixed salary. 

 

Obviously unless it is commission based of course, which I am asumming is what you are saying there stringy.

Then they'd leave...and go to the bank that does pay bonuses. Bonuses give a mechanism to reward those that go the extra mile.

[Rico1304]

Aaarrrrgggghhhh - apologies. I'd neg myself if I could.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

Aaarrrrgggghhhh - apologies. I'd neg myself if I could.

 

I would rep if you if I hadn't ran out.

 

Then they'd leave...and go to the bank that does pay bonuses. Bonuses give a mechanism to reward those that go the extra mile.

 

All that does is create greed and opens the doors to dodgy deals etc.

[stringvest]

But it is something that can be removed at any time.

 

Would it not be in their contract as oposed to their job description. Anwhere I have worked that has had a bonus/commission scheme has had it written into their contract and stated it can be removed at any time as it is not part of their fixed salary. 

 

Obviously unless it is commission based of course, which I am asumming is what you are saying there stringy.

 

I meant Ts and Cs.  But the bonus framework is examined at interview, and for traders and senior managers, the bonus potential will absolutely dwarf their basic salaries.  Quite right too.  Performance-based salary.  The bonus is almost completely commission based, in that there is a direct correlation between what they make for the bank and what they receive in 'bonus'.

[stringvest]

Aaarrrrgggghhhh - apologies. I'd neg myself if I could.

 

it's alright, I've got it covered,  Extra mile indeed.

[stringvest]

I would rep if you if I hadn't ran out.

 

 

All that does is create greed and opens the doors to dodgy deals etc.

 

that's why the regulation needs to be in place and implemented properly.  dodgy deals are not good for the bank.

[RedRazor]

I meant Ts and Cs.  But the bonus framework is examined at interview, and for traders and senior managers, the bonus potential will absolutely dwarf their basic salaries.  Quite right too.  Performance-based salary.  The bonus is almost completely commission based, in that there is a direct correlation between what they make for the bank and what they receive in 'bonus'.

Largely true if you are talking about the investment bank only but not if you are talking about the retail bank. It is as you say performance based but many employees have a role that does not involve any direct commercial activity yet still get bonuses. 

 

Basic pay in the retail bank - where the vast majority of the employees are - is pretty unremarkable so getting the bonus makes a big difference. The investment bank is a completely different world. Globally competitive salaries and the potential to earn huge bonuses.

 

It is like comparing the salaries of the very top sportsmen in a sport very familiar to all in here with those three levels below them.

[Bobby Hundreds]

Then they'd leave...and go to the bank that does pay bonuses. Bonuses give a mechanism to reward those that go the extra mile.

let them leave look at what this talent has achieved fuck all except screwing a nation over. I'd rather we got rid of the greedy bastards whose sole purpose is grasping and grasping. Yeah we will lose revenue but fuck it, the greatest minds that have ever lived didn't chase wealth we are not going to stand still because we put a leesh on greed. A huge GDP contribution from the financial sector but for who who? the money floats about the same hands. Austerity still happens the Tories and labour still privatize every fucking thing they possibly can so whats my tax paying for a skeleton crew police force who spend their time in traffic a tiny army fighting in oil wars. A health service being sold off piece by piece alongside other services, every single aspect of life is fuck society the only responsibility is to share holders. Its going to implode all of it and the mansions won't have walls big enough.

 

Fuck pandering to greed and justifying it like greed is the only reason we progress, is it fuck, it never has been. Greed just hijacks a progress and puts the price on it. Greed isn't good it isn't a virtue its fucking shite and I hope every bastard who has everything they could possibly want but still wants more just for the sake of it I hope their sexual organs explode. Fuck this corporate take over of the world and anybody who supports it. Fuck iPads and flat screen tvs if that's the price of 85 people owning more than 3.5 billion people combined.

 

To all those conservative households that are flooded... You voted for cuts hope the water is not too tepid. Oooooooh you want cuts that don't effect youuuuuuuuuuu. Fuck it... Cut the price of wellies.

 

Imagine how fucking livid I'd be if I didn't have a job and was struggling. I might start smoking pot again buy a camper van and opt out.

[stringvest]

Largely true if you are talking about the investment bank only but not if you are talking about the retail bank. It is as you say performance based but many employees have a role that does not involve any direct commercial activity yet still get bonuses. 

 

Basic pay in the retail bank - where the vast majority of the employees are - is pretty unremarkable so getting the bonus makes a big difference. The investment bank is a completely different world. Globally competitive salaries and the potential to earn huge bonuses.

 

It is like comparing the salaries of the very top sportsmen in a sport very familiar to all in here with those three levels below them.

 

apologies, I should have been more explicit.  The investment banks are thosee paying out the bonuses that constantly hit the headlines, and those are largely 'commission' based

[Bobby Hundreds]

Cameron now saying money is no object since the Thames valley flooded. Gobshite.

[Bjornebye]

Cameron now saying money is no object since the Thames valley flooded. Gobshite.

 

Unreal 

[Bobby Hundreds]

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/mail-demands-foreign-aid-to-be-spent-on-replacing-british-carpets-2014021183451

[RedRazor]

let them leave look at what this talent has achieved fuck all except screwing a nation over. I'd rather we got rid of the greedy bastards whose sole purpose is grasping and grasping. Yeah we will lose revenue but fuck it, the greatest minds that have ever lived didn't chase wealth we are not going to stand still because we put a leesh on greed. A huge GDP contribution from the financial sector but for who who? the money floats about the same hands. Austerity still happens the Tories and labour still privatize every fucking thing they possibly can so whats my tax paying for a skeleton crew police force who spend their time in traffic a tiny army fighting in oil wars. A health service being sold off piece by piece alongside other services, every single aspect of life is fuck society the only responsibility is to share holders. Its going to implode all of it and the mansions won't have walls big enough.

 

Fuck pandering to greed and justifying it like greed is the only reason we progress, is it fuck, it never has been. Greed just hijacks a progress and puts the price on it. Greed isn't good it isn't a virtue its fucking shite and I hope every bastard who has everything they could possibly want but still wants more just for the sake of it I hope their sexual organs explode. Fuck this corporate take over of the world and anybody who supports it. Fuck iPads and flat screen tvs if that's the price of 85 people owning more than 3.5 billion people combined.

 

To all those conservative households that are flooded... You voted for cuts hope the water is not too tepid. Oooooooh you want cuts that don't effect youuuuuuuuuuu. Fuck it... Cut the price of wellies.

 

Imagine how fucking livid I'd be if I didn't have a job and was struggling. I might start smoking pot again buy a camper van and opt out.

Top rantage Bobby. I don't have a job and I am struggling but I'm nowhere near as livid as you are on my behalf. I will pass on the pot and camper van all the same.

 

Here is a little present for you based on a post you made a couple of weeks back regarding a guaranteed minimum income. Apparently none other Richard Milhous Nixon, 37th president of the United States of America, shared your view and commissioned the following discussion paper on the topic. Clearly it never became law in the US but he must have seriously considered it for it to have got this far. It only applied to famlies with dependent children so is not as far reaching as your suggestion. But an interesting read all the same. It was called the Family Assistance Plan.

 

http://www.irp.wisc.edu/publications/dps/pdfs/dp5769.pdf

[RedRazor]

apologies, I should have been more explicit.  The investment banks are thosee paying out the bonuses that constantly hit the headlines, and those are largely 'commission' based

Roughly two thirds to one third in favour of the investment bank I believe. But there are significantly more people employed by the retail bank so they each get a much smaller share of the bonus pot. Relatively few would get a bonus greater than £10,000.

[stringvest]

Agree.  That only tops up a salary that isn't sufficient in the case of retail bankers.  The kiddos in BarCap for example, wouldn't get out of bed for that.  In fact, they'd shit the bed and think someone has left off a couple of zeroes.  

[Pureblood]

 Tube workers = good workers, banks (and utilities) = bad workers.

 

Sounds about right to me.  The former provides an essential but affordable service to millions of people.  The latter two ruined the economy on purpose and like to rip people off for fun.  

 

PPI, anyone? 

[stringvest]

no thanks, I've jjust had my dinner.

[lifetime fan]

Housing benefit changes 'unworkable'
 
Two-thirds - 66% - of social sector tenants affected by benefit cuts for those with extra bedrooms were behind with rent after six months, a National Housing Federation survey suggests.

And it said 38% were in debt because of the "unfair, unworkable" policy change - dubbed the "bedroom tax" by critics.

Research firm Ipsos Mori surveyed 183 housing associations in England.

The government said it was "determined to support those who might need extra help through these necessary reforms".

Since April last year, people deemed to have one spare bedroom have had their housing benefit reduced by 14%, while those with two or more spare bedrooms have seen reductions of 25%.

Critics said vulnerable and disabled people would be forced out of their homes.

But the government argued the measure would help control the billions spent on housing benefit and free larger properties for those who needed them the most.

The National Housing Federation (NHF), which represents housing associations said, the changes were "heaping misery and hardship on already struggling families, pushing them into arrears".
"Now many are at risk of being evicted because they simply can't find the extra money to pay their rent - these people have done nothing wrong," chief executive David Orr said.

He said the government had "suddenly changed the rules and given them a false choice - move to a smaller home or pay".
"Yet we know there aren't enough smaller homes in England for these families to move into."

The NHF said the equivalent of 72,00 housing association tenants were in rent arrears because of the policy.
It said that, by October 2013, 15% of household affected by the cuts had received letters warning them they were in danger of being evicted.
And housing associations with affected tenants each spent an average of £73,250 before April 2013 on measures such as welfare and financial advice services to mitigate the effect of the changes.

This would rise to an extra £109,000 on average by March 2014, the NHF estimated.

And it said that, according to its own research conducted since December, demand for Discretionary Hosing Payments - described by the government as providing "extra money when your council decides that you need extra help to meet your housing costs" - had tripled.
A spokesperson for the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) said: "We have tripled the extra funding given to councils this year to £190m - some of which is specifically targeted at disabled people - and have announced that £165m will be available for councils next year to help vulnerable tenants.

"There have been many scare stories about councils running out of funding when, in fact, only a quarter of local authorities across the country made a bid for the £20m funding available to top up their Discretionary Housing Payment allocation, and a majority of councils spent less than half of their extra funding in the first half of the financial year."

 

Meanwhile, Labour has accused the government of understating the number of council tenants who have had their payment wrongly docked under the policy.

Work and Pensions Secretary Iain Duncan Smith previously told MPs that up to 5,000 claimants affected should still have been entitled to have housing benefit calculated according to longstanding rules, despite the new regulations.

People who have been claiming housing benefit for the same property since before 1996 are thought to fall into this bracket.
Labour said data for local councils showed that at least 16,000 households in the UK had wrongly had benefits cut, adding the true figure could be closer to 50,000.

The DWP said regulations were being amended and it stood by its earlier estimate of "around 5,000".

[VladimirIlyich]

Werent the bonuses for investment bankers and senior management and the workers were only getting the threat of redundancy?

Thats how i read it anyway.