Benitez 'guarantees' top four finish

[zigackly]

I'm sure some of that money is tied into success Tom. And it would help arranging the next deal.

 

We're getting sidetracked a bit anyway, my main point was that they won't pay for success, but of course they wouldn't mind some.

[Tom R]

I don’t know, but I doubt it. I imagine very few deals are based like that.

 

That’s the risk you take when you sign a five year deal as a sponsor. The club could do well, or fail abysmally and you strike a deal that finds a balance based on that risk.

 

Having long term sustained league success (liek Man u) is a different matter, as they have the history of winning, so when sponsors negotiate the risk to them is minimal and therefore they get moer money. A one off league win wouldn’t really impact bottom line very much at all.

[goatboy59]

Mate, Man United were the richest and self styled “biggest club in the world” loooong before 1993. They were the media darlings even when they hadn’t won a league title for 26 years.

 

i know what you're sayin, but we were Champions of Europe only 4 years ago and we couldn’t even capitalise on that!

 

our owners couldn't give a flying rat shit if we finish 4th or 1st, I'm telling you.

 

Do you think for a second that, even if we won the league, the additional revenue go back in to the team?

 

hahaha! AS IF!

But look how it's going, even keeping up with them would make us more attractive to buyers in their current low-ambition Scrooge penny-scraping way.

 

Do I think we'd be like United in 93? No, but it wouldn't be too far off. There's a difference to someone in Singapore saying they're a fan, and someone wanting to go round lording it in a Champions 2010 (I know, I know) t-shirt.

 

And Istanbul was under a previous CEO, and hardly a shock. Moores is a cabbage.

 

Our big fuck-up was 88, when there were 10,000 locked outside for numerous games. New stand should have fucking gone up then, and basically being the last to comply with Taylor. The Mancs were rebuilding in their title season, and always planning to add on. By that time we were getting 30,000 for Oldham and 26,000 for QPR because our team was fucking woeful.

[Barrington Womble]

Stop talking shite. Rafa has gone 'all in'.

 

what exactly is going "all in"?

[Guest PurpleNose]

what exactly is going "all in"?

 

He's clearly bluffing if he has done.

[RedKnight]

Have two portions in the canteen at Melwood?

[Barrington Womble]

of course. but it starts at the top and filters down.

 

Our owners wouldn't give a shit if we finish 4th or 1st. To them the rewards are exactly the same.

 

with the costs of added on transfer fees and player bonuses they might actually be better off finishing 4th.

[JohnnyH]

I believe our deal with Standard Chartered is heavily reliant on success. As is Utds deal and Chelseas, etc with their main shirt sponsors.

 

If we are not in the CL then we don't get anywhere near the £20m per season. If we don't win a league over the term of the deal, then that will cost us also.

[Tom R]

I believe our deal with Standard Chartered is heavily reliant on success. As is Utds deal and Chelseas, etc with their main shirt sponsors.

 

If we are not in the CL then we don't get anywhere near the £20m per season. If we don't win a league over the term of the deal, then that will cost us also.

 

The CL bit I can believe, but I can't for a minute imagine any club basing any sponsorship revenue on whether they win the league or not.

[Carra_is_legend]

I'm not sure about the increase in sponsorship money if we win the title but there will be a HUGE difference in the CL money we get for the year after. The team that finishes 1st gets a much bigger share from the pool than the team that finishes 4th.

[Tom R]

I'm not sure about the increase in sponsorship money if we win the title but there will be a HUGE difference in the CL money we get for the year after. The team that finishes 1st gets a much bigger share from the pool than the team that finishes 4th.

 

How much more?

 

I don't know what the difference in £ is between winning it and, say, making it to teh semis or the final, but I'd be surprised if it was even enough to buy you Andrea Dosenna.

[Tom R]

Just found this on wiki

 

"UEFA awards €3 million to each team that qualifies for the UEFA Champions League, plus €2.4 million for participating in the Group stage. A Group stage win is worth €600,000 and a draw is worth €300,000.

In addition, UEFA pays each quarter finalist €2.5 million, €3 million for each semi-finalist, €4 million for the runners-up and €7 million for the winners.[2]

A large part of the distributed revenue from the UEFA Champions League is linked to the "market pool", the distribution of which is determined by the value of the television market in each country. For the 2008-09 season, both Manchester United and Bayern Munich, who reached the final and quarter-final respectively, earned more than Barcelona, who won the tournamen"

 

Seems I was right. It ain't a lot in the big scheme of things is it?

[aws]

Just found this on wiki

 

"UEFA awards €3 million to each team that qualifies for the UEFA Champions League, plus €2.4 million for participating in the Group stage. A Group stage win is worth €600,000 and a draw is worth €300,000.

In addition, UEFA pays each quarter finalist €2.5 million, €3 million for each semi-finalist, €4 million for the runners-up and €7 million for the winners.[2]

A large part of the distributed revenue from the UEFA Champions League is linked to the "market pool", the distribution of which is determined by the value of the television market in each country. For the 2008-09 season, both Manchester United and Bayern Munich, who reached the final and quarter-final respectively, earned more than Barcelona, who won the tournamen"

 

Seems I was right. It ain't a lot in the big scheme of things is it?

 

It's more the TV money, Tom. Worth far more than the UEFA pot and it's also carved up depending on how far you go.

[Captain]

Seems I was right. It ain't a lot in the big scheme of things is it?

 

No, seems you got it wrong. And Wikipedia is fucking shit, so I wouldn't put too much emphasis on what you find there.

 

What he's talking about is obviously the difference in CL money based on your league position the previous season. As I'm sure you remember, we got royally shafted when UEFA had to put us in after FA failed to realize the defending Champions should represent England, not fucking Everton.

[gumps]

So whats he backing his "guarantee" with?

 

His he willing to walk away without compo?

 

Talk is cheap as they say and money buys drink!

[Carra_is_legend]

How much more?

 

I don't know what the difference in £ is between winning it and, say, making it to teh semis or the final, but I'd be surprised if it was even enough to buy you Andrea Dosenna.

 

AWS has already answered above Tom.

 

The TV money is split something like this (not absolutely sure but it is pretty much like this): 40% of next year's CL TV money goes to the team that qualified having finished 1st, 30% to the team that finished 2nd, 20% to the team that finished 3rd and 10% to the team that finished 4th.

 

As I said, the percentages above could differ slightly but that is how it is made roughly.

 

When we won the CL in 2005, Inter Milan made LOT more money in the CL than us even though they got knocked out of the QF stage (or even the 2nd round, can't remember).

[Tom R]

fucking no chance, Al.

 

No chance at all.

We'll be lucky to finish 6th.

[JohnnyH]

4th, with games to spare (well, game). No problem.

[Tom R]

I don't bet against Liverpool mate, and it would be the worst bet to win ever.

 

Spurs and Villa are just better than us and Man City could easily buy their way in to the Cl in january.

 

There is no way whatsoever that we're going to finish in the top 4. Not with Benitez in charge anyway.

 

If he's gone by the morning and they put my sister in charge, then we might have a fighting chance. But whilst he's here I reckon our chances are around 10% if we're lucky.

[Guest Pistonbroke]

Our current form is more like relegation stuff rather than top 4. We'd have to have a huge turnaround in fortunes to get anywhere near 4th imo. I hope we can but i'd be surprised if we can.

[Tom R]

Tom R, believe me we will finish top 4.

 

Now just sit back and watch it happen, get your money out you tight bastard. Must be living in yorkshire that turns you into a minge bag

 

haha.

 

Seriously, I can't bet against Liverpool. It isn't right.

You can bump this thread in May and have a laugh at my expense though!

 

I really hope that happens actually, but it won't.

 

Chelsea Man U and Arsenal are 99% nailed on for the first three places.

That only leaves one, and there are 2 teams who are quite simply just better than us (we might have better players than Spurs and villa , but they are unquestionably far better teams than us) and one who could easily be in just a few weeks time.

 

What I hate most about Rafa is that I almost hope we don't finish 4th as it would then absolutely guarantee that we were rid of the gutless wonder!

[Ezekiel 25:17]

yeah I know.

 

I was just clarifying my position. You know, just in case.

 

I doubt you are ever in need to 'clarify' your position Tom!

 

 

You obviously were not there when he had the threesome with two guys and a girl.

[JohnnyH]

I don't believe Arsenal are in any way a guarantee for 3rd.

[ratcatcher]

I don't believe Arsenal are in any way a guarantee for 3rd.

 

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. If you say so!

[robslappa]

I will be truthful mate, the answer is 442, I think the best thing Rafa could do would be to sit down with a few players listen to what they believe is wrong and get some sort of middle ground.

 

ie, speak with carra gerrard and torres, I'll be gobsmacked if those 3 players do not talk amongst themselves about what they see as the problem.

 

Sometimes you need to admit your wrong and swallow your pride, Nothing ventured nothing gained as they say.

 

There's no chance we will finish top four. No chance.

 

If he has to go to the players and ask the players what he needs to do, then he might as well fuck off and let Gerrard be Player Manager.

 

I wouldn't have been arsed if he'd left us years ago, but more recently I've felt that I really don't trust the owners to make the right decision in appointing a successor, but there's only so much you can take and you can't not sack someone who is quite clearly fucking up on a monumental scale, just because of fear of the unknown.

 

He seems absolutely rudderless and he needs to go. It really doesn't matter who they appoint at the moment, because I honestly think just getting rid of him would be enough to lift the place and the players would react.