Double sided sticky tape!

[The Acolyte]

Yeah you know who you are. The "fans" who were wetting their pants when we were topping the league. The same "fans" who are now calling for Rafa's head. I know there are some on here who wanted to see the back of Rafa and had to bite their tongue when we went top. Shame on you. You should be puting your dislike for the manager to one side and cheer your team on and not going "yeah but Rafa is a ........". Even worse are those who sit on the fence and then cream their pants when we do well and then post 1001 emails demanding his head after a poor performance. I hate it.

Jumping on the bandwagon when its good and are the first bunch to jump off when it hits some rough road.

Look at Manure, they started the PL poorly but stuck together and look at them now. If our "fans" showed the same kind of solidarity we might not be in this shape.

People seem to forget the state we were in before he turned up.

Also people seem to forget he had every right to walk out on the club within weeks of turning up as Parry had told him a pack of lies regarding squad strength and how much of a job he had on his hands.

Could you see Evans or Houllier beating the likes of AC Millan R. Madrid etc? Just need to transfer and maintain that confidence in the league. We had it for a while and then lost it.

Now he's stopped losing to the top teams we just need more creativity and firepower. Is it his fault his hands are tied in terms of player purchases? Is it his fault we were sold to bunch of thieves more interested in making a profit than being a success?

Yes he has his faults and has made bad purchases and decisions but what managers haven't? It only hurts us more than Arsenal, Chavs or Mancs because we don't have a pot to piss in and the windows are boarded up so we can't chuck it out! If it wasn't for that now famous press conferance we wouldn't have questioned and then found the truth about our "owners" till much later (for all the good its done us!). Feel free to shoot me down but I think it had to be said.

[Flying Pig]

Refreshingly correct. First bit of forum intelligence for ages.

 

repped.

[Liverpool lad]

My rep guns are dry but that is a quality post

[23_Carra_Gold]

Great post but beating R. Madrid, AC Milan etc means fuck all if we go and lose to Boro 4 days later. And Houllier beat Barca, so yes I could see the likes of Houllier beating European giants.

[Lofts]

Very good post, I've lost faith (after the wigan game) that Rafa will never win us the league. European he is a genius but in the league dont think hes got it.

[Red Nick]

Great post but beating R. Madrid, AC Milan etc means fuck all if we go and lose to Boro 4 days later. And Houllier beat Barca, so yes I could see the likes of Houllier beating European giants.

 

Well said that man.

 

Its a very simple equation Rafa has made us the greatest team in the world in a one off game and cup tie against teams who are stupid enough to think they can beat us. In Cup ties if you dont conceded the worse thing that can happen is you go out on penalties. However to win a title its about winning games and being able to beat poor teams and Rafa is far too cautious a manager to ever achieve that.

[silverlining]

Yeah you know who you are. The "fans" who were wetting their pants when we were topping the league. The same "fans" who are now calling for Rafa's head. I know there are some on here who wanted to see the back of Rafa and had to bite their tongue when we went top. Shame on you. You should be puting your dislike for the manager to one side and cheer your team on and not going "yeah but Rafa is a ........". Even worse are those who sit on the fence and then cream their pants when we do well and then post 1001 emails demanding his head after a poor performance. I hate it.

Jumping on the bandwagon when its good and are the first bunch to jump off when it hits some rough road.

Look at Manure, they started the PL poorly but stuck together and look at them now. If our "fans" showed the same kind of solidarity we might not be in this shape.

People seem to forget the state we were in before he turned up.

Also people seem to forget he had every right to walk out on the club within weeks of turning up as Parry had told him a pack of lies regarding squad strength and how much of a job he had on his hands.

Could you see Evans or Houllier beating the likes of AC Millan R. Madrid etc? Just need to transfer and maintain that confidence in the league. We had it for a while and then lost it.

Now he's stopped losing to the top teams we just need more creativity and firepower. Is it his fault his hands are tied in terms of player purchases? Is it his fault we were sold to bunch of thieves more interested in making a profit than being a success?

Yes he has his faults and has made bad purchases and decisions but what managers haven't? It only hurts us more than Arsenal, Chavs or Mancs because we don't have a pot to piss in and the windows are boarded up so we can't chuck it out! If it wasn't for that now famous press conferance we wouldn't have questioned and then found the truth about our "owners" till much later (for all the good its done us!). Feel free to shoot me down but I think it had to be said.

 

We don't have a pot to piss in?

Purchases in the last two seasons include:

 

Babel £11m

Masher £18m

Keane £20m

Torres £24m

Dossena £8m

Lucas £6m

Riera £6m

[Boom Boom]

Wasn't Mascherano's £18M or was it £17M inclusive of five years worth of wages?

[Major Tom]

Now he's stopped losing to the top teams we just need more creativity and firepower. Is it his fault his hands are tied in terms of player purchases?.

 

His hands are tied in terms of player purchases? Keane for £20m ring a bell? His hands were obviously not tied tight enough.

 

We needed a sofa in the summer and he bought a fucking lamp.

[Lucky Pierre]

Wasn't Mascherano's £18M or was it £17M inclusive of five years worth of wages?

Correct

[Redexile]

Do me a favour, I'm fed up being told how much I don't deserve Rafa as a manager because I happen to think he's not doing a great job in the league. I've been a red for over 40 years but I have been away since the eighties. I returned home last year full of intentions to continue my love affair with that fabulous bird. What did I find? I found out I mean fuck all to the club just another wallet to empty. I stopped watching the reds for a time under both Souness and Houliier and you know what? in the league I'm starting to get a similar feeling under Rafa. I will never stop supporting the reds in spite of the above nor will I refer to our manager or players as "cunts" but I am entitled to my opinion as much as anybody without somebody getting up on a box and giving it to me big time.

[Best Believe It]

For more details on the great has he/hasn't he had money to spend, please see every other thread in existence.

[SpeedyG]

For more details on the great has he/hasn't he had money to spend, please see every other thread in existence.

 

Ain't that the truth. Although the list of teams we've drawn with is running it hard.....

[JustTosh]

Yeah you know who you are. The "fans" who were wetting their pants when we were topping the league. The same "fans" who are now calling for Rafa's head.

....

Could you see Evans or Houllier beating the likes of AC Millan R. Madrid etc?

...

Now he's stopped losing to the top teams we just need more creativity and firepower.

 

Those who now want to replace Rafa certainly didn’t wet their pants when we were top of the league. I remember the same posters saying the same thing two months ago. Despite being top of the league we’re going in the wrong direction they said, pointing to our over cautious tactics, strange team selections/subs and what they believed was bad man management.

 

Foresight doesn’t make them bad fans IMHO.

 

However, you do make two points which seems to be forgotten.

 

1. We should think back to where we were pre Rafa. He’s made us a considerable force in Europe. Other teams now fear being drawn against us, we’re top of the UEFA ranking. It’s quite extraordinary what we’ve achieved in Europe. We should appreciate that more than we do.

 

2. We were going into this season hoping for progress in the league. We’ve had disappointments, but we’ve made progress in one department. We’ve been considerably better against the other top sides. Not only do we (so far) have 3-1-0 against the other top sides, we’ve been the better team in those matches as well. A good match, win loose or draw, at Old Trafford is needed to make a conclusion though.

 

One part of me wants Rafa to get one more year to sort out how to play the lower teams. However, his stubbornness expressed in his post match reactions means I don’t believe he’ll ever get that right. So for me enough is enough. I want him to stay until the end of the season though, giving us all a chance to reconsider.

[Hoddy]

Great post but beating R. Madrid, AC Milan etc means fuck all if we go and lose to Boro 4 days later

 

No it doesn't. It never means fuck all. It means we beat Real Madrid. Just like we beat AC Milan. And Inter Milan. And Barcelona. And the rest.

 

You can't say these achievements mean nothing because of bad league results - achievements that, when he took over, no-one in their wildest dreams would have thought possible.

 

Am I pissed off about Saturday's result? Absolutely - it was fucking dire. But does it mean we should forget about beating Real Madrid in the Bernabeu? No way.

[Hermes]

. Feel free to shoot me down but I think it had to be said.

 

[Original202]

Jesus. Somebody please pass me a sick bag.

[Guest LFD]

At the moment we are currently seeing:

 

The Super fans - who will follow Rafa through thick and thin. Blind faith, not accepting any of his faults, simply blaming money as the only reason why we haven't won the league under his time.

 

The anti-Rafa fans - Who simply can't say a good word about Rafa despite all the good he has achieved at the club.

 

Personally I am in the middle. I think Benitez has been superb in Europe since he's arrived and the funds he has brought in through that competetion has been vital the last few seasons. He's brought in some very good players, but last summer he made a complete mess of the transfers and it has cost us dearly. Another summer like last year and then I think we should really be questioning whetrher he's the right man.

 

I'm with him at the moment, but I'm against him getting another 5 year deal, as I think the next summer / season will be crucial in deciding whether he's the right man to take us forward in the long term.

[Rick Sanchez C-137]

repped. it can be easy to get carried away though after the likes of saterday. we just shouldnt be drawing those games let alone losing them.

[23_Carra_Gold]

No it doesn't. It never means fuck all. It means we beat Real Madrid. Just like we beat AC Milan. And Inter Milan. And Barcelona. And the rest.

 

You can't say these achievements mean nothing because of bad league results - achievements that, when he took over, no-one in their wildest dreams would have thought possible.

 

Am I pissed off about Saturday's result? Absolutely - it was fucking dire. But does it mean we should forget about beating Real Madrid in the Bernabeu? No way.

 

I don't think you understood me. The majority or Reds want us to win the league over a European Cup win. Therefore he can beat Real Madrid 20 times in a season but if he continues to fail to beat small teams in the league then it means fuck all to them. We're spoiled, we've seen our side beat so many top sides and right now we have tunnel vision. We want to see Stevie raising that big, sky funded, trophy come May and I'm afraid beating Real Madrid doesn't deliver that.

[The Acolyte]

We don't have a pot to piss in?

Purchases in the last two seasons include:

 

Babel £11m

Masher £18m

Keane £20m

Torres £24m

Dossena £8m

Lucas £6m

Riera £6m

 

Yes but all those have come at a price of selling players Rafa didn't necessarily want to let go. Its always been a book ballancing act that the likes of the Mancs and Arse (Wenger's got the cash but treats it like its come out of his own wallet!) don't have to worry about. Examples include Crouch and Warnock. In an ideal world I bet he wanted to keep hold of those players until his new purchases settled in or to be competition. Look at the amount of players we have out on loan, some of them could/should be on the bench but our "owners" want the books to look good for any possible investors.

[KevieG]

Wasn't Mascherano's £18M or was it £17M inclusive of five years worth of wages?

 

[philyhamann]

What a load of wank that is The Acolyte. People didn't bite their tounge when we were top of the league, they said it how it was - that we couldn't continue to play in that manner, awful football and expect to nick a goal every time. It was the "Top of the league, 8 points clear" brigade that took the piss, their entire argument was based around the idea that we would eventually pick up form. We haven't, and now we're probably going to soon end up 7-10 points behind the Mancs.

 

The not had a pot to piss in argument is also stupid, considering that he has spent ass loads of money on players we don't need or he hasn't got a clue where to play.

[philyhamann]

Wasn't Mascherano's £18M or was it £17M inclusive of five years worth of wages?

 

[kop]

Although I agree with much of what you're saying in the first post of this thread, I do not at all agree with how the opinion is passed on to fellow fans. When "one side" of the Rafa-discussion tries to pass his/hers opinion to "the other side" then you get just that; two sides. That's exactly what causes us fans to not stick together as you preach the need for in your post. How about being a bit more diplomatic and post a bridge-building post if you think one of the problems to our downfall from the #1 spot is that us the fans can't stick together?