2 things about Rafa that have really pissed me off since Boro

[SpeedyG]

Barry thanks for starting a thread about the contract issue.

 

Around November' date=' I heard a interview on the radio where Rafa was being quizzed on certain players contracts. His answer went something along the lines of, "my contract is more important".

 

Then when I was involved in a war of words with Durango in one of the Chris Bascombe threads, I used this interview as one of the reasons as to why I wanted Rafa gone.

 

Durango insisted I was wrong and Rafa never said it. I trawled back through the Echo sports pages but couldn't find any reference to it. TBH I started to doubt if I actually heard Rafa say such a thing.

 

Then a few of the Sunday's went with the storey, and it was on local radio news on Monday morning. Radio City actually went as far as saying it was all contracts, not just Kuyts.

 

It was mentioned in the I Love Dirk Kuyt thread, but not really discussed. I couldn't believe the under reaction to it. I posted that Rafa had just sat back while the finger of blame for players contracts being allowed to run down was pointed at Parry.

 

I also went on to say that maybe Rafa knows he's on his way and he's setting up a situation where he could get Dirk on the cheap for his new club.

 

People can neg me all they want but any support I had left for Rafa went on Sunday when this storey broke. I want him sacked now. This isn't an issue of whether you rate Dirk or not, as the long term consequences of Rafa's actions could be disastrous for us and the club.

 

As I have said, its not just Dirk who he's refusing to deal with, its all players who's contracts are at a point where we need to renegotiate.

 

The man obviously thinks he's bigger than the club, Its time to let him go.[/quote']

 

As we've been discussing all day it doesn't make business sense to do those deals now.

[Paul]

Something that annoyed me about Rafa this week (and despite my massive doubts about him, I don't usually get wound up by him; depressed and confused maybe, but not angry) was when he cited the injury to Agger s a reason for our poor results. I wouldn't have minded if he'd been picking him when he was fit, but he wasn't. It was a blatant abuse of the facts in order to make an excuse about our shite form.

[Magellan06]

There is only one logical answer to all these issues surrounding Rafa, locking out the academy, freezing out kean, unfathomable team selection and tactics, contract demands etc, etc, We are being turned into FC BENITEZ!!

[SpeedyG]

Something that annoyed me about Rafa this week (and despite my massive doubts about him, I don't usually get wound up by him; depressed and confused maybe, but not angry) was when he cited the injury to Agger s a reason for our poor results. I wouldn't have minded if he'd been picking him when he was fit, but he wasn't. It was a blatant abuse of the facts in order to make an excuse about our shite form.

 

When did he say that our poor results were because of agger?

[redrosetints]

you still miss the point entirely. Why should Benitez tell another employee of LFC he can't have his future decided until his own is sorted? If that came from above, that's fine - but you cannot be seriously be telling me Benitez is worrying about the next manager being "hamstrung"?

 

But I dont read it like that, I read it as Kuyt saying noone is sorting out his contract, he's spoken to Rafa who said he'll sort it, but cant at the moment cos he's not signed his own and therefore hasnt the power to do it as its Parrys job, isnt what all the fuss is about ?

 

Therefore, Kuyt is complaining that noone is offering him a new deal, its not in Rafas power now, but hopefully will be, once he (rafa) signs his new contract.

[FrenchEyeGlass]

why the fuck did the OP have to make a seperate thread for his thoughts?

[redrosetints]

Barry thanks for starting a thread about the contract issue.

 

Around November' date=' I heard a interview on the radio where Rafa was being quizzed on certain players contracts. His answer went something along the lines of, "my contract is more important".

 

Then when I was involved in a war of words with Durango in one of the Chris Bascombe threads, I used this interview as one of the reasons as to why I wanted Rafa gone.

 

Durango insisted I was wrong and Rafa never said it. I trawled back through the Echo sports pages but couldn't find any reference to it. TBH I started to doubt if I actually heard Rafa say such a thing.

 

Then a few of the Sunday's went with the storey, and it was on local radio news on Monday morning. Radio City actually went as far as saying it was all contracts, not just Kuyts.

 

It was mentioned in the I Love Dirk Kuyt thread, but not really discussed. I couldn't believe the under reaction to it. I posted that Rafa had just sat back while the finger of blame for players contracts being allowed to run down was pointed at Parry.

 

I also went on to say that maybe Rafa knows he's on his way and he's setting up a situation where he could get Dirk on the cheap for his new club.

 

People can neg me all they want but any support I had left for Rafa went on Sunday when this storey broke. I want him sacked now. This isn't an issue of whether you rate Dirk or not, as the long term consequences of Rafa's actions could be disastrous for us and the club.

 

As I have said, its not just Dirk who he's refusing to deal with, its all players who's contracts are at a point where we need to renegotiate.

 

The man obviously thinks he's bigger than the club, Its time to let him go.[/quote']

 

As Ive said to Barry, I think your misreading it. At this moment in time, the man who sorts out contracts is Rick parry. this isnt a spin, this is a fact of life. Parry said after Mcmanaman ? that players contracts wouldnt be allowed to go below two years, yet in 04 owen leaves us having had his contract run down to just one year.

 

In November, Rafa was asked about hte players contracts, but there is nothing he can do about them is there ? he cant get them renewed, its not within his remit. However, if and when he signs his new contract, one assumes he wil have that ability.

 

Therefore, when Rafa states, Kuyt will have to wait for Rafa to get his contract, its because once thats Signed Rafa can do the do and get them all signed up.

 

Otherwise its wait for Parry. The real question is, why AGAIN, has Parry let players contracts urn down below two years ?

[Paul]

When did he say that our poor results were because of agger?

 

The article is below and reading it again, I've inferred more than was originally implied. I still think it's a bit rich moaning about Agger being injured though.

 

Torres doubtful for Real Madrid return

 

• Spaniard one of three players causing concern for Benítez

 

• Downcast Liverpool manager not ready to give up title bid

• Digg it
  

• Andy Hunter
  
• guardian.co.uk, Tuesday 3 March 2009 00.06 GMT
  
• Article history
  

Fernando Torres goes off injured during the Champions League match against Real Madrid last week. The Spanish striker is unlikely to make the return. Photograph: Paul Ellis/AFP/Getty Images

 

 

Rafael Benítez's prognosis on Liverpool was as sombre as his mood yesterday as he described their defeat at Middlesbrough as a fatal error in the title race and revealed that Fernando Torres may not be fit for the Champions League return against Real Madrid.

The Liverpool manager remained downcast after the dispiriting display and result at the Riverside and, although he will not concede the title is beyond Anfield until arithmetic confirms it, he left no doubt as to the ramifications of Saturday's 2–0 defeat on Teesside. "We knew we could not lose any games or draw any more games if we wanted to fight for the title," he admitted.

Benítez's outlook has not been helped by injury to Torres and the defenders Daniel Agger and Alvaro Arbeloa, all of whom miss tonight's match against Sunderland at Anfield. They remain doubtful for the Champions League second leg against Real Madrid a week tonight and their absence had such a debilitating effect on Liverpool's threat and balance against Middlesbrough.

"We will have to wait for Torres, Agger and Arbeloa and see how they progress for Real Madrid," said Benítez, who lost his leading striker to a twisted ankle at the Bernabéu last week. "It is not clear [if they can face Real] at the moment."

Now seven points adrift of Manchester United but having played a game more, Benítez admitted his first task tonight will be to lift the spirits of a club that, according to Sir Alex Ferguson, was involved in a two-horse race for the title just a fortnight ago. "When you are in a position where you are fighting at the top of the table and you have a defeat, then it's normal that the mood is not the best," said the Liverpool manager. "You can have five minutes of being disappointed, then you start again preparing for the next game. If we start well against Sunderland and create some chances then I think everybody will be behind the players. The players have to show the supporters their character on the pitch."

Benítez admitted he never anticipated that Liverpool would falter so badly and so quickly from a position of strength in the Premier League. "We were in a really good position for such a long time, the best in my five years here, so what has happened has come as a surprise and disappointment," he said. However, he remains adamant that Liverpool can end United's dominance of the Premier League under his stewardship.

"The cycle will be broken," he said. "We have confidence we can stay closer at the top of the table. We have made some ­mistakes this season, such as ­losing at Middlesbrough, a game we would ­normally have to win. We have to improve on the pitch. Clearly one thing is to do better in front of goal but there is not just one reason why we aren't closer to the top."

The Liverpool manager also revealed his protracted contract negotiations are likely to drag on, with no date set for the next round of talks between his advisers and lawyers acting for the club's co-owners, Tom Hicks and George Gillett. "There will be communications in the next few days and we will decide then but we don't have a date," Benítez said. "It could be in a few days or maybe in a few weeks."

[kopheart]

Its absolutely amazing some of the tripe on this issue of Kuyts contract. I think it was summed up nicely in the post above, and i didnt need to know this before reading the evidence for it. It seems like common sense - I take the fact that some are fed up with Rafa but its like your taking it to the extreme and fueling rumours and misinformation that have nothing to do with LFC , RAFA or the team, more to do with the frustration of missing out on the title again -if he wins the CL what then all is forgotten. Rafa is a genius for taking the resource he has and bringing us thus far under difficult circumstances with his employers. I dont agree with everything he does and some of his decisions leave me??????? but lets face it all succesful managers have a stubborn streak in doing things in thier particular way .... and Rafa has learnt some lessons in his time here.. so this thread is based on disappointment and would be better suited on a MANCS site than ours so behave....

[stringvest]

As Ive said to Barry, I think your misreading it. At this moment in time, the man who sorts out contracts is Rick parry. this isnt a spin, this is a fact of life. Parry said after Mcmanaman ? that players contracts wouldnt be allowed to go below two years, yet in 04 owen leaves us having had his contract run down to just one year.

 

In November, Rafa was asked about hte players contracts, but there is nothing he can do about them is there ? he cant get them renewed, its not within his remit. However, if and when he signs his new contract, one assumes he wil have that ability.

 

Therefore, when Rafa states, Kuyt will have to wait for Rafa to get his contract, its because once thats Signed Rafa can do the do and get them all signed up.

 

Otherwise its wait for Parry. The real question is, why AGAIN, has Parry let players contracts urn down below two years ?

 

It's not Parry, for fuck's sake.

[SpeedyG]

The article is below and reading it again, I've inferred more than was originally implied. I still think it's a bit rich moaning about Agger being injured though.

 

Torres doubtful for Real Madrid return

 

• Spaniard one of three players causing concern for Benítez

 

• Downcast Liverpool manager not ready to give up title bid

• Digg it
  

• Andy Hunter
  
• guardian.co.uk, Tuesday 3 March 2009 00.06 GMT
  
• Article history
  

Fernando Torres goes off injured during the Champions League match against Real Madrid last week. The Spanish striker is unlikely to make the return. Photograph: Paul Ellis/AFP/Getty Images

 

 

Rafael Benítez's prognosis on Liverpool was as sombre as his mood yesterday as he described their defeat at Middlesbrough as a fatal error in the title race and revealed that Fernando Torres may not be fit for the Champions League return against Real Madrid.

The Liverpool manager remained downcast after the dispiriting display and result at the Riverside and, although he will not concede the title is beyond Anfield until arithmetic confirms it, he left no doubt as to the ramifications of Saturday's 2–0 defeat on Teesside. "We knew we could not lose any games or draw any more games if we wanted to fight for the title," he admitted.

Benítez's outlook has not been helped by injury to Torres and the defenders Daniel Agger and Alvaro Arbeloa, all of whom miss tonight's match against Sunderland at Anfield. They remain doubtful for the Champions League second leg against Real Madrid a week tonight and their absence had such a debilitating effect on Liverpool's threat and balance against Middlesbrough.

"We will have to wait for Torres, Agger and Arbeloa and see how they progress for Real Madrid," said Benítez, who lost his leading striker to a twisted ankle at the Bernabéu last week. "It is not clear [if they can face Real] at the moment."

Now seven points adrift of Manchester United but having played a game more, Benítez admitted his first task tonight will be to lift the spirits of a club that, according to Sir Alex Ferguson, was involved in a two-horse race for the title just a fortnight ago. "When you are in a position where you are fighting at the top of the table and you have a defeat, then it's normal that the mood is not the best," said the Liverpool manager. "You can have five minutes of being disappointed, then you start again preparing for the next game. If we start well against Sunderland and create some chances then I think everybody will be behind the players. The players have to show the supporters their character on the pitch."

Benítez admitted he never anticipated that Liverpool would falter so badly and so quickly from a position of strength in the Premier League. "We were in a really good position for such a long time, the best in my five years here, so what has happened has come as a surprise and disappointment," he said. However, he remains adamant that Liverpool can end United's dominance of the Premier League under his stewardship.

"The cycle will be broken," he said. "We have confidence we can stay closer at the top of the table. We have made some *mistakes this season, such as *losing at Middlesbrough, a game we would *normally have to win. We have to improve on the pitch. Clearly one thing is to do better in front of goal but there is not just one reason why we aren't closer to the top."

The Liverpool manager also revealed his protracted contract negotiations are likely to drag on, with no date set for the next round of talks between his advisers and lawyers acting for the club's co-owners, Tom Hicks and George Gillett. "There will be communications in the next few days and we will decide then but we don't have a date," Benítez said. "It could be in a few days or maybe in a few weeks."

 

Seriously, I can't even see a moan there.

[taliesin08]

Don't anyone realise how fcuked our club really is behind the scenes..all that shit has nothing to do with the manager, wake up people.

[Little Sammy]

Barry Wom, I agree with all that you've just said.

 

Rafa has been bang out of order this season, both on and especially off the pitch.

 

The only reason that's keeping me from wanting him out is the Yanks. Otherwise, Mourinho would be the ideal replacement.

 

Watching his interview yesterday was brilliant. It was like seeing Rafa's rant this year, but with purpose and attitude. You can see the Inter players responding perfectly to that, unlike Rafa.

[Barrington Womble]

Barry thanks for starting a thread about the contract issue.

 

Around November' date=' I heard a interview on the radio where Rafa was being quizzed on certain players contracts. His answer went something along the lines of, "my contract is more important".

 

Then when I was involved in a war of words with Durango in one of the Chris Bascombe threads, I used this interview as one of the reasons as to why I wanted Rafa gone.

 

Durango insisted I was wrong and Rafa never said it. I trawled back through the Echo sports pages but couldn't find any reference to it. TBH I started to doubt if I actually heard Rafa say such a thing.

 

Then a few of the Sunday's went with the storey, and it was on local radio news on Monday morning. Radio City actually went as far as saying it was all contracts, not just Kuyts.

 

It was mentioned in the I Love Dirk Kuyt thread, but not really discussed. I couldn't believe the under reaction to it. I posted that Rafa had just sat back while the finger of blame for players contracts being allowed to run down was pointed at Parry.

 

I also went on to say that maybe Rafa knows he's on his way and he's setting up a situation where he could get Dirk on the cheap for his new club.

 

People can neg me all they want but any support I had left for Rafa went on Sunday when this storey broke. I want him sacked now. This isn't an issue of whether you rate Dirk or not, as the long term consequences of Rafa's actions could be disastrous for us and the club.

 

As I have said, its not just Dirk who he's refusing to deal with, its all players who's contracts are at a point where we need to renegotiate.

 

The man obviously thinks he's bigger than the club, Its time to let him go.[/quote']

 

This is pretty much how I feel. I said earlier, the only reason I see to keep him in a job at the moment is the disasterous choice of manager that the other pair of cunts could make. I am actually surprised neither of the owners have kicked up a stink about this. Now Parry is gone I would have expected to see Hicks bite.

[Barrington Womble]

But I dont read it like that, I read it as Kuyt saying noone is sorting out his contract, he's spoken to Rafa who said he'll sort it, but cant at the moment cos he's not signed his own and therefore hasnt the power to do it as its Parrys job, isnt what all the fuss is about ?

 

Therefore, Kuyt is complaining that noone is offering him a new deal, its not in Rafas power now, but hopefully will be, once he (rafa) signs his new contract.

 

You're reading words that aren't there then imo. There's no mention that he hasn't the power to do anything (if that was the case where did he get the power to sell Keane) in fact in another interview from the weekend Rafa is saying he wants to start work now on deals for new players in the transfer window - so he has the power to do that, the power to sell players, yet no power to offer any of our players approaching their last 12 months a deal. Absolute rubbish - you should change your user name to rafarosetints.

[Catch22]

Barry thanks for starting a thread about the contract issue.

 

Around November' date=' I heard a interview on the radio where Rafa was being quizzed on certain players contracts. His answer went something along the lines of, "my contract is more important".

 

Then when I was involved in a war of words with Durango in one of the Chris Bascombe threads, I used this interview as one of the reasons as to why I wanted Rafa gone.

 

Durango insisted I was wrong and Rafa never said it. I trawled back through the Echo sports pages but couldn't find any reference to it. TBH I started to doubt if I actually heard Rafa say such a thing.

 

Then a few of the Sunday's went with the storey, and it was on local radio news on Monday morning. Radio City actually went as far as saying it was all contracts, not just Kuyts.

 

It was mentioned in the I Love Dirk Kuyt thread, but not really discussed. I couldn't believe the under reaction to it. I posted that Rafa had just sat back while the finger of blame for players contracts being allowed to run down was pointed at Parry.

 

I also went on to say that maybe Rafa knows he's on his way and he's setting up a situation where he could get Dirk on the cheap for his new club.

 

People can neg me all they want but any support I had left for Rafa went on Sunday when this storey broke. I want him sacked now. This isn't an issue of whether you rate Dirk or not, as the long term consequences of Rafa's actions could be disastrous for us and the club.

 

As I have said, its not just Dirk who he's refusing to deal with, its all players who's contracts are at a point where we need to renegotiate.

 

The man obviously thinks he's bigger than the club, Its time to let him go.[/quote']

 

 

Until Rafa signs a new contract whether because he isn't wanted or becuase he wants out, he is a "lame duck" manager.

He will either sign or be out in the summer.

 

Would you be happy if a lame duck manager spent £20m on a new transfer in, thereby using up a substantial portion of our summer budget on a player who the new manager might think is crap?

[Carra_is_legend]

You're reading words that aren't there then imo. There's no mention that he hasn't the power to do anything (if that was the case where did he get the power to sell Keane) in fact in another interview from the weekend Rafa is saying he wants to start work now on deals for new players in the transfer window - so he has the power to do that, the power to sell players, yet no power to offer any of our players approaching their last 12 months a deal. Absolute rubbish - you should change your user name to rafarosetints.

 

Aye.

 

I can't even imagine how things will be when he gets more power.

[Catch22]

You're reading words that aren't there then imo. There's no mention that he hasn't the power to do anything (if that was the case where did he get the power to sell Keane) in fact in another interview from the weekend Rafa is saying he wants to start work now on deals for new players in the transfer window - so he has the power to do that, the power to sell players, yet no power to offer any of our players approaching their last 12 months a deal. Absolute rubbish - you should change your user name to rafarosetints.

 

 

If that is just preparation work then that is fine.

 

If he actually started pulling the trigger on new deals without signing a new contract then it is totally wrong.

 

As i said the obvious star players (Torres, etc) should still have their contracts renewed.

 

Kuyt is a player who i) divides opinion & ii) Rafa likes more than most (see these forums for evidnce of both).

 

It is stupid to ink him to a large contract when the new manager might think he is not good enough.

[Carra_is_legend]

It is stupid to ink him to a large contract when the new manager might think he is not good enough.

 

Do you honestly believe we will struggle to sell Kuyt if the new manager doesn't rate him?

[Catch22]

Do you honestly believe we will struggle to sell Kuyt if the new manager doesn't rate him?

 

 

No probably not.

 

But his value decline by not signing is probably about £2m tops.

 

If he is valued any higher than £10m then he cant be included on Rafa's failiures list as often as he is.

 

Why give a player close to £20m when not doing so only might watse £2m?

 

 

& You could make the same argument if Rafa signed a new player now for £20m.

We are likely to be able to sell him on.

 

Yet we both would not want any lame duck manager signing any new players.

 

Since Bosman wages are far more important than fees.

Re-signing your own player is of similar cost to signing a new one.

[Barrington Womble]

If that is just preparation work then that is fine.

 

If he actually started pulling the trigger on new deals without signing a new contract then it is totally wrong.

 

As i said the obvious star players (Torres, etc) should still have their contracts renewed.

 

Kuyt is a player who i) divides opinion & ii) Rafa likes more than most (see these forums for evidnce of both).

 

It is stupid to ink him to a large contract when the new manager might think he is not good enough.

 

He wasn't suggesting it was prep work - he used his almost post athens words, something like "I will be starting work on new transfers for the summer now, because we don't have as much money as others and it is cheaper to finish the deals early".

 

As for inking Kuyt to a large contract, I don't care if he divides opinion - he would be a very saleable asset and the value of that asset diminshes with every day that passes when we neglect to extend his deal. Rafa is blocking this, not because he wants to ensure a potential new manager has as much to spend as possible, but because he is putting himself and his own contract before the interests of LFC.

[Carra_is_legend]

No probably not.

 

But his value decline by not signing is probably about £2m tops.

 

If he is valued any higher than £10m then he cant be included on Rafa's failiures list as often as he is.

 

Why give a player close to £20m when not doing so only might watse £2m?

 

 

& You could make the same argument if Rafa signed a new player now for £20m.

We are likely to be able to sell him on.

 

Yet we both would not want any lame duck manager signing any new players.

 

Since Bosman wages are far more important than fees.

Re-signing your own player is of similar cost to signing a new one.

 

How do you know if his value will only go down by £2m "tops" ? He could sign a pre-contract with anyone in January for "free".

 

And who is talking about signing a new player? The whole thread is about Kuyt's contract!!! There is a huge difference between signing a new player and tying up an existing player going into the last year of his contract. If you can't see that, I'm afraid I have nothing more to say on the subject.

[redrosetints]

It's not Parry, for fuck's sake.

 

Whats not ?

 

Who took responsibility after Mcmanaman left and said, publicly, we shouldn't let players contract's run down to less than two years ?

 

Who then let Owens go down to a year ? Who went on holiday after the Istanbul when Gerrards contract needed tieing up and nearly saw gerrard leave for a second time ?

 

Come on Stringy, I know its not all Parry. But he is the CEO, its his job to do the contracts and he hasnt ! Plain and simple.

[Catch22]

How do you know if his value will only go down by £2m "tops" ? He could sign a pre-contract with anyone in January for "free".

 

And who is talking about signing a new player? The whole thread is about Kuyt's contract!!! There is a huge difference between signing a new player and tying up an existing player going into the last year of his contract. If you can't see that, I'm afraid I have nothing more to say on the subject.

 

 

We got over £10m for Crouch who had a year left but i accept I cant be sure.

 

I honestly dont see the difference as they still commit the club to a huge amount of money for a player the manager might or might not want.

 

The worst part of GH's legacy was all the crap he left us on huge contracts

 

Even after paying his old club £7m we still actually saved cash on Riera taking over the LM role once Kewell's £80k/wk went off the books.

[redrosetints]

You're reading words that aren't there then imo. There's no mention that he hasn't the power to do anything (if that was the case where did he get the power to sell Keane) in fact in another interview from the weekend Rafa is saying he wants to start work now on deals for new players in the transfer window - so he has the power to do that, the power to sell players, yet no power to offer any of our players approaching their last 12 months a deal. Absolute rubbish - you should change your user name to rafarosetints.

 

No, Im sorry, its not Rafas job, Its either Parry or Ayres/the other dude. Parry didnt sell Keane, no, but Ayres did.