2 things about Rafa that have really pissed me off since Boro

[Carra_is_legend]

You also say riera settled in better. he started ok but am I the only one thinking he is not going to make the grade at Liverpool either? He has been poor for months now.

 

You are not the only one. Count me in too.

[SpeedyG]

You are not the only one. Count me in too.

 

Me too :(

[Carra_is_legend]

Well because in my opinion he deserves it hes is a great coach that could do wonders with many teams in the top four of five of any league in europe or the world.

 

Rafa is trying his best to develop a football culture from top to bottom granted he wnats it be his but at least their would be one but we have owners and ceo's and whoever else who havent got a fucking clue what he is going on about because they know fuck all about football.

 

If Rafa took over the likes of Real Barca etc they would win everything maybe not in the style that have become uccustomed to but they would still play very good football and win the lot.

 

Rafa is a man that would be brilliant for us when we are truly ready to go on the assault again he is a man that would simply add his footballing knowledge to a team that needs it, he would romp away with many things if he were at chelsea.

 

Rafa maybe needed us as much as we needed him to develop as a manager, he has made many mistakes but also created huge successes. He himself will develop his ideas and his knowledge of the game unfortunatly we are maybe the wrong club for this as many want success right away and not a formula for long term success which i feel Rafa is trying to find but it is extremely difficult.

 

So, what you are saying is, there is no chance Rafa will even ask for a new contract with us? Because he knows he can be the next best thing since sliced bread if he left us.

 

Oh wait......he has just been on the news for the last 6 months asking for a new contract.

[Whelan]

so let me get this straight, Keane did not play well but was not given a chance (he was, and he was in his preferred position) and that is wrong but Riera has not played well for the past two months and wont make the grade!!!

 

So you are all for getting rid of one player based on a couple of months and then argue the case for keeping another player BECAUSE he was only given a couple of months!

 

That looks to me like your arguments are based around getting rid of Rafa, which is fair enough as mine are based around keeping him!

 

You are right about Rierra though but in all fairness Rafa did drop him on Saturday! So maybe he agrees with you

[JMARKH]

Keane was starting to look good then Rafa bombed him out, do people forget this? as soon as there was any danger of Keane looking good rafa thought "I can't have this".

[Carra_is_legend]

You are right about Rierra though but in all fairness Rafa did drop him on Saturday! So maybe he agrees with you

 

Rafa also dropped Benayoun on Saturday, mate. :whistle:

[Whelan]

Rafa also dropped Benayoun on Saturday, mate. :whistle:

 

He was rested!!

 

sarky twat!!!!!

[Carra_is_legend]

He was rested!!

 

sarky twat!!!!!

 

He he.

 

Nice one.

[DomL]

So, what you are saying is, there is no chance Rafa will even ask for a new contract with us? Because he knows he can be the next best thing since sliced bread if he left us.

 

Oh wait......he has just been on the news for the last 6 months asking for a new contract.

 

He is asking for a new contract because he wants to have full reigns he doesnt just want to be a coach he wants to have a certain amount of control within this club and you know that.

 

Yes im sure he does know that he would do well else where, why do think Maureen chose Inter he knew he would do well their, you seem to think Rafa would be short on offers when in reality he wouldnt know what to do with himself if he came on the market many team in germany especially would want Rafa and if you cant see that well i can then see why you dont have any faith in him here.

[SpeedyG]

Keane was starting to look good then Rafa bombed him out, do people forget this? as soon as there was any danger of Keane looking good rafa thought "I can't have this".

 

Play fair, Keane looked out of his depth.

[shaunstrudwick]

so let me get this straight, Keane did not play well but was not given a chance (he was, and he was in his preferred position)

 

Keane was played as a 2nd striker with whom? i only remember him being deployed in a 4-5-1 when Torres was out

 

Keane and Gerrard and Torres have never played together with Gerrard on the right of a 4-4-2 with Alonso and Masch in the middle

 

it doesn't matter who else Keane was partnered with as it would've only worked with the personnel/formation above IMHO

[Barrington Womble]

I still think the difference for Kuyt would only be a couple of million and that's not worth tying a new managers hands over IMO.

 

As I say, that would depend on Kuyt's attitude. Let's say Benitez becomes manager of FC Rafa in Spain this summer as we couldn't get a deal and decide to let him go and get a new manager who is prepared to work long term at the club. Kuyt with 12 months left on his contract hears of interest from FC Rafa and decides he wants to hook up with Rafa as he knows Rafa loves him. Liverpool may think Kuyt is say worth £12m. FC Rafa knowing the contract situation say we'll offer you £3m. We turn it down and eventually the top offer of £5-6m comes in. At the same time Spurs and Aston Villa table bids of £10m. Kuyt tells LFC he'll only go to FC Rafa and if we don't accept that bid, he'll happily see out the last 12 months of his deal and move on to a club of his choice who he can sign a pre-contract deal with in January. Do you not think that is possible, in fact an almost probable situation? It's not just a throw away thing and if it was we'd leave all players to the last 12 months of their contracts. Why reduce the new managers bargaining position (exactly as happened with benitez when Owen went on the cheap) when we don't have to? More to the point, why the fuck should Benitez be making that decision when he is refusing to commit to the club long term?

[Tom R]

if the owners do not change in the summer there is no point with Rafa fucking off - cos as you rightly say how can anyone operate effectively in our mad house

 

if the owners do change then i would give him another season with a decent budget to spend how he wants - if that means £30m each on Aguero and Ribery then back him to make it happen

 

that is what i want

 

if he is given carte blanch and still spends £60m on 6 average players then we will know that he just doesn't get it and will have to be sacked

 

Erm, where've you been for the last 4 years?

[Carra_is_legend]

He is asking for a new contract because he wants to have full reigns he doesnt just want to be a coach he wants to have a certain amount of control within this club and you know that.

 

Yes im sure he does know that he would do well else where, why do think Maureen chose Inter he knew he would do well their, you seem to think Rafa would be short on offers when in reality he wouldnt know what to do with himself if he came on the market many team in germany especially would want Rafa and if you cant see that well i can then see why you dont have any faith in him here.

 

I'm not saying Rafa would be short of offers - he could even go to Real Madrid and then manage Barcelona, AC Milan, Juventus, Bayern Munich etc in the next 15 years. But, he will have even less control at those clubs than he has at Anfield at the moment - never mind about what he is asking for.

[GRADY]

so let me get this straight, Keane did not play well but was not given a chance (he was, and he was in his preferred position) and that is wrong but Riera has not played well for the past two months and wont make the grade!!!

 

So you are all for getting rid of one player based on a couple of months and then argue the case for keeping another player BECAUSE he was only given a couple of months!

 

That looks to me like your arguments are based around getting rid of Rafa, which is fair enough as mine are based around keeping him!

 

You are right about Rierra though but in all fairness Rafa did drop him on Saturday! So maybe he agrees with you

 

When have I said I wanted to get rid of riera now? But if his perfomances continue as they have been for the last couple of months then do you think he is going to be our long term option? (he started well but i dont think he has been fantastic) Do you genuinely believe also that Keane was given a fair crack of the whip?

 

He wasnt helped by torres being in and out but how many times did they play together up front?

 

As for the point about benitez I make no secret of the fact I would take mouriniho in the summer. I wouldnt fuck rafa off for anybody at all and I can see the argument for keeping him.

 

But we are not going to win the league this season (barring a fuckin mirracle) so unless we win the european cup we will have won nothing for 3 seasons.

 

That is not acceptable at Liverpool I wouldnt have thought.

 

Maybe Rafa is a victim of United looking like equalling our league title collection - I wouldnt dispute that and I accept it his not his fault but this year for one reason or another we had a genuine opportunity to do it and I believe our cautious manner of playing has been a major reason why we are not still in with a shout.

[SpeedyG]

As I say, that would depend on Kuyt's attitude. Let's say Benitez becomes manager of FC Rafa in Spain this summer as we couldn't get a deal and decide to let him go and get a new manager who is prepared to work long term at the club. Kuyt with 12 months left on his contract hears of interest from RB FC and decides he wants to hook up with Rafa as he knows Rafa loves him. Liverpool may think Kuyt is say worth £12m. RB FC knowing the contract situation say we'll offer you £3m. We turn it down and eventually the top offer of £5-6m comes in. At the same time Spurs and Aston Villa table bids of £10m. Kuyt tells LFC he'll only go to FC Rafa and if we don't accept that bid, he'll happily see out the last 12 months of his deal and move on to a club of his choice who he can sign a pre-contract deal with in January. Do you not think that is possible, in fact an almost probable situation? It's not just a throw away thing and if it was we'd leave all players to the last 12 months of their contracts. Why reduce the new managers bargaining position (exactly as happened with benitez when Owen went on the cheap) when we don't have to? More to the point, why the fuck should Benitez be making that decision when he is refusing to commit to the club long term?

 

We can all come up with hypotheticals which would be good or bad in those cases I tend to decide what the most important principle is and for me it is that the manager decides who is in his squad.

 

If we sign him up now, which is likely to be his last big contract, it will be on EPL top 4 wages that's going to make it more difficult to sell him on to the kind of club that could be interested, we'll end up with another Heskey situation where we are paying him to play somewhere else!

[shaunstrudwick]

Erm, where've you been for the last 4 years?

 

i thought the whole problem with is new contract was because he hasn't been given carte blanch in the transfer market so far?

[shaunstrudwick]

But we are not going to win the league this season (barring a fuckin mirracle) so unless we win the european cup we will have won nothing for 3 seasons.

 

That is not acceptable at Liverpool I wouldnt have thought.

 

i think 4 seasons is the bechmark - as per Houllier

[DomL]

I'm not saying Rafa would be short of offers - he could even go to Real Madrid and then manage Barcelona, AC Milan, Juventus, Bayern Munich etc in the next 15 years. But, he will have even less control at those clubs than he has at Anfield at the moment - never mind about what he is asking for.

 

Juve i would disagree with and Bayern as well but maybe he knows this and wouldnt mind he would know what he is getting with thoughs clubs, with Liverpool and Valencia maybe he felt he had the ideas and the image to gain such strength within the club.

 

Maybe he saw both teams as a way of stamping his mark on football and leaving a legacy or a club that would be remembered in a possitive light for a long time.

 

If Rafa does go it will be with my blessing not because i wont him gone but because he should be at a club which can show the world how talented he is much like maureen, he has chosen wisely maybe Rafa hasnt but thoughs are the breaks in football and i guess Rafa maybe feeling now he might need a new start himself and get a club that he knows it would be simple to win with.

[Barrington Womble]

We can all come up with hypotheticals which would be good or bad in those cases I tend to decide what the most important principle is and for me it is that the manager decides who is in his squad.

 

If we sign him up now, which is likely to be his last big contract, it will be on EPL top 4 wages that's going to make it more difficult to sell him on to the kind of club that could be interested, we'll end up with another Heskey situation where we are paying him to play somewhere else!

 

So if it was Torres, Gerrard and carra in the same situation, you'd be fine with it? And you're fine it's Rafa making that decision?

[SpeedyG]

So if it was Torres, Gerrard and carra in the same situation, you'd be fine with it? And you're fine it's Rafa making that decision?

 

TBH On those three I'd make an exception. But for me Kuyt is not someone I'd make an exception for.

[redrosetints]

I've not been on for a few days and had a little search to see if anyone has picked up on a couple of things since Saturdays surrender. I couldn't find anything so appologies if this has been posted elsewhere.

 

1. Dirk Kuyt being interviewed saying he wants to sign a new contract and it's not the club blocking it but Rafa. Rafa told him nothing can be done till his own situation is sorted. If that's the case, Rafa wants fucking for this - the lad has about 15 months left on his contract and is effectively worth less as every day passes while Rafa is titting about with his political games. Rafa is there to act in the interests of LFC not Rafa Benitez. In my opionion this is gross misconduct and in any other industry would see him fired.

 

2. Rafa made some comment yesterday saying something like "I didn't see our slump coming because until the new year everything had been going so well". Does he send some stunt double to watch our matches or something? Fucking hell how could he not see it coming, it's been written all over everything we've done since the 1st match of the season? Maybe if he spent less time telling everyone how fucking great he was and how he should be ruling everything at the club and more time studying the absolute turgid shite we've all been watching this season instead of taking a quick glance at the result, then maybe, just maybe it wouldn't have been a surprise. It's been no fucking surprise to me that's for sure.

 

Rafa needs to get his head out of his own arse and fast before this whole thing comes tumbling down. For me the only reason I want him to stay as boss right now is I don't trust the other pair of cunts who own us to get anyone decent.

 

I think there is some merit to your second point. But the first, is just a rehash of comments made by Kuyt back in December isnt it ? Im sure he said all that then, that Rafa wanted to sort it out, but couldnt as he hadn't signed his contract.

[Barrington Womble]

TBH On those three I'd make an exception. But for me Kuyt is not someone I'd make an exception for.

 

So what you're saying is for you it would be a footballing decision? Yet Benitez who is making that decision not to offer the contract is not doing it becuase of footballing reasons. What if it was Pepe, Alonso, Masch, Skrtel? Any of those become exceptions? What you're saying is you don't really rate kuyt so you're not arsed if we allow him to go for next to fuck all? My issue here to be honest is not if the club choose to make that choice (although personally if I owned the club I'd say to Kuyt here's 12/24 months and we'll talk again when the managers situation is resolved), but it certainly shouldn't be the manager dictating players don't get contracts when he is refusing to do a deal and clearly has a conflict of interests.

[Barrington Womble]

I think there is some merit to your second point. But the first, is just a rehash of comments made by Kuyt back in December isnt it ? Im sure he said all that then, that Rafa wanted to sort it out, but couldnt as he hadn't signed his contract.

If it is a rehash, it's the 1st I've read about it and if I'd seen it before I'd have mentioned it then.

[stringvest]

If it is a rehash, it's the 1st I've read about it and if I'd seen it before I'd have mentioned it then.

 

it's not a rehash.