Why?

[The 5th Benitel]

I think the anti-Rafa feeling that is growing stems from the fact that the fams want the league more than anything and this is very obviously our best chance in years. I cant remember the last time Chelsea, the mancs and Arsenal all dropped so many points and we started the season by turning around results in our favour and people started to really believe we could do it.

 

However, we're just coming to the end of our easiest run of games of the year and, despite the fact the mancs and especially Chelsea have continued to wobble, we're only one point ahead. The most disappointing thing about it is that for a lot of these games it feels like Rafa hasn't given us the best opportunity to take agavantage of this run of really winable games with the decisions he's made. For example, Gerrard is out but he still drops Alonso and plays Lucas against a team whos best players are centre mids. Drawing at home against Hull but putting Lucas on instead of Keane and ended the game still jst having one forward on the pitch who had been terrible all game. Not throwing men forward against these lesser teams trying to get the three points cos he's obvioulsy more concerned about us getting countered.

 

The things about all of those examples is that it is his decisions that consistantly lessen the posibility of us winning games. Obviously, there's no way of knowing what might have happened but you will never be able to convince the people who pay to watch us play that we've got more chance of scoring and winning with Lucas on the pitch instead of Keane or Alonso. Or that we're more like to nick a goal if we've only ever got 2 players in the box for when crosses come over. You look at the difference on Saturday, we went 2 down and the players reacted by streaming forward and getting two back, almost getting a third before the break. Rafa gets the in at half time and after that we have two meaningful efforts on goal in 45 mins.

 

I'm sorry that's a bit of an essay but it's been doing my head in. I started to think we were going to do it but sitting there freezing my bollocks off watching the way we play i've changed my mind and i'm gutted. I've never been in the 'Rafa out' camp but i'm starting to wonder if he'll ever ba able to bring us the title. There's no doubt his first thought is not conceding and that will always mean we end up drawing too many games cos most teams will be made up with a point against us. I also dont think he helps himself by never seeming to accept he's wrong and making the same mistakes over and over, usually blaming everyone else but himself. Unless he's doing that and winning that will only alienate him from a crowd full of scousers who dont want to hear him pointing the finger at everyone else instead of sorting out his own fuck ups.

 

And i know we're top of the league but, going off what we've seen over the last few months, i find it impossible to feel confident we'll stay there.

[The 5th Benitel]

A good thing that under him we have the best record in Europe's most important competition then

 

No denying that ut the thing that really helps him is that you can do very well in that competition by drawing a lot of games cos of the away goal rule.

[hamstrung]

I don't think we rely on draws in Europe particularly.

[Antynwa]

The European game suits Benitez, I have no doubt in my mind if Benitez was to leave Liverpool for Europe he would achieve shed loads.

[Catch22]

No denying that ut the thing that really helps him is that you can do very well in that competition by drawing a lot of games cos of the away goal rule.

 

 

2 legged results under Rafa:

(aggregate scores)

GAK 2-1

Leverkusen 6-2

Juve 2-1

Chel 1-0

TNS 6-0

Kaunas 5-1

CSKA 3-2

Benfica 0-3

Haifa 3-2

Barca 2-2a

PSV 4-0

Chel 1-1p

Toulose 5-0

Inter 3-0

Arse 5-3

Chel 3-4 aet

Liege 1-0 aet

 

So only 1 result due to the away goals rule

 

(& anyway there is nothing wrong with the away goals rule- competitive football compettions should reward away draw, home win (note to tedious old PL) & the away goal rule is an intelligent way of stopping teams just parking the bus awy from home (note to tedious old PL))

[shaunstrudwick]

Rafa is doing my head in for sure but i don't know if we would fare any better under the leadership of another manager

 

some positive team selections and positive use of subs would be nice though

 

no more 4-5-1 at home!!!!!

[Karl_b]

Every year we go through this with Rafa, every fucking year people are getting on his back in November and December. Am I worried that we might not sustain our position at the top? Yes, of course, but that's the pressure of being top. Do I think that we can stay there when we inevitably come out the slump we're in, yes, definitely.

[The 5th Benitel]

I don't think we rely on draws in Europe particularly.

 

The point is a draw is a good result a lot of the time in Europe but in the league it just means you drop two points. Also, teams tend to attack more at home which suits us better and away goals are so important in Europe.

 

I'm not critising Rafa for that, he's the best manager in the world when it comes to European cup imo. I just think it's possible that the tactics that have been so successful in Europe aren't as effective when you're trying to win the league.

[hamstrung]

I don't think the fact you can draw more games in Europe and still be successful (ergo we are better at it) is a valid criticism. There are occasions when we've gone to draw tough away games, but its rare.

 

Its more to do with the fact that teams in Europe tend not to "park the bus" so much.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

Also, I think from reading some of the biography's about Rafa, a lot of Valencia fans used to level much the same criticisms/complaints at him even AFTER he'd won them the league.

 

Ask them if they want him back.

 

I bet they would now.

[Karl_b]

Any resident Spanish speakers want to find a Valencia forum? I'd genuinely be interested to know.

[Salte]

My conclusion from this thread:

 

Some are happy with Rafa because he's getting good results (38 points from 17 games, 14 from 6 in CL group stage).

 

Some are unhappy with Rafa because he's not getting good enough results (way too high expectations imho)

 

Some are unhappy with Rafa because he doesn't agree with them on how to manage a football club (play 2 up front, use Keane, Lucas is shite etc.). Most of the whinger on this thread fall into this category.

[Hooch]

It's just anxiety man. We want it so bad. We're all going a bit crazy right now. Rafa certainly doesn't help though sometimes. I think the craziness has rubbed off on him too. Still top though baby. Plenty more to come from us yet.

[hamstrung]

Any resident Spanish speakers want to find a Valencia forum? I'd genuinely be interested to know.

 

Get ATK on the case.

[05 Milan]

2 legged results under Rafa:

(aggregate scores)

GAK 2-1

Leverkusen 6-2

Juve 2-1

Chel 1-0

TNS 6-0

Kaunas 5-1

CSKA 3-2

Benfica 0-3

Haifa 3-2

Barca 2-2a

PSV 4-0

Chel 1-1p

Toulose 5-0

Inter 3-0

Arse 5-3

Chel 3-4 aet

Liege 1-0 aet

 

So only 1 result due to the away goals rule

 

(& anyway there is nothing wrong with the away goals rule- competitive football compettions should reward away draw, home win (note to tedious old PL) & the away goal rule is an intelligent way of stopping teams just parking the bus awy from home (note to tedious old PL))

 

Ha ha, keep shootin'em down

[Lisa]

I was so miserable after the game on Saturday, it did feel like a defeat. Then when Man Utd & Chelsea both drew, it was such a relief. How long can we count on them to drop points though?

I have always been behind Rafa, but now doubts are beginning to creep in. This is our best chance in years to win the league as every other team is dropping points. I just think a big part of the discontent is the way we are playing. I can't think of many games this season when I have enjoyed watching us play. Sometimes the football we play is awful and we cannot string two passes together. Crap teams sometimes play better football than we do. I know we are top of the league, but some of Rafa's decisions do frustrate me. Sometimes I just think he is being bloody minded and obstinate for the sake of it.

If we win on Sunday, I will be all hopeful again, but we have to improve drastically or I can't see us staying top too long.

[The 5th Benitel]

I wonder if the people who go on about 'whingers' actually shell out their own money to go and watch us put in the displays we have been doing. Bear in mind, the people pointing out the problems we've got aren't the tits who boo everytime there's a substitution they disagree with. They're just fans who've seen decisions and a style of play that has probably cost us points towards the league title we all dream of. Players can have bad games and sometimes your team just doesn't get the rub of the green but that's different to a manager making completely illogical decisions that can only comtribute to us dropping points.

[The 5th Benitel]

2 legged results under Rafa:

(aggregate scores)

GAK 2-1

Leverkusen 6-2

Juve 2-1

Chel 1-0

TNS 6-0

Kaunas 5-1

CSKA 3-2

Benfica 0-3

Haifa 3-2

Barca 2-2a

PSV 4-0

Chel 1-1p

Toulose 5-0

Inter 3-0

Arse 5-3

Chel 3-4 aet

Liege 1-0 aet

 

So only 1 result due to the away goals rule

 

(& anyway there is nothing wrong with the away goals rule- competitive football compettions should reward away draw, home win (note to tedious old PL) & the away goal rule is an intelligent way of stopping teams just parking the bus awy from home (note to tedious old PL))

 

 

That's drawn over two legs. There's games there were we drew the first game and also games where we nicked an away goal meanig the opposition had to attack us which plays right into our hands.

 

Remember, i'm not critising Rafa's European straergy that would be ridiculous. I'm saying we dont play that differently in the league which means we draw too many which has been our problem for years.

[Antynwa]

I wonder if the people who go on about 'whingers' actually shell out their own money to go and watch us put in the displays we have been doing. Bear in mind, the people pointing out the problems we've got aren't the tits who boo everytime there's a substitution they disagree with. They're just fans who've seen decisions and a style of play that has probably cost us points towards the league title we all dream of. Players can have bad games and sometimes your team just doesn't get the rub of the green but that's different to a manager making completely illogical decisions that can only comtribute to us dropping points.

 

I agree with this.

 

If I see something I don't agree with, I'll say it. I honestly believe the choices Rafa has made of late in the league has cost us, and may just cost us more come May....

[BorizJeltzin]

We'll miss him when he's gone you know.

 

Yupp

[CrouchieBoy]

So how come the players performances in some of these games where we dropped points hasnt gotten a mention? That's not to say that the manager isnt responsible for some of the slip up, but when do the players take any responsibility?

 

I sat there as confused as the rest on Saturday wondering why he selected Lucas ahead of Keane. But again these results are a two way street. Thats how I see it anyways.

[Woo]

So how come the players performances in some of these games where we dropped points hasnt gotten a mention? That's not to say that the manager isnt responsible for some of the slip up, but when do the players take any responsibility?

 

I sat there as confused as the rest on Saturday wondering why he selected Lucas ahead of Keane. But again these results are a two way street. Thats how I see it anyways.

 

Check the match threads Jeff, plenty gets said about it mate.

[Karl_b]

Why? Why, why, why? Why? Be more constructive with your feedback, please. Why?

[CrouchieBoy]

Check the match threads Jeff, plenty gets said about it mate.

 

I have seen em Al, just speaking about this thread by and large. Maybe it was the original intent of the thread, but I have seen our boys turn in some proper stinkers.

[The 5th Benitel]

I have seen em Al, just speaking about this thread by and large. Maybe it was the original intent of the thread, but I have seen our boys turn in some proper stinkers.

 

Aside from the fact that most of them are players that he's signed, it's baffling substitutions. So these players you are talking about who are playing shite, i.e Kuyt on Saturday, stay on the pitch while we've got a replacement sat on the bench. He then brings on Lucas.

 

This reminds me of the old, 'If Riise wants to keep shooting from 45 yards, what can Rafa do about that?' shout that i used to hear. Well, find a replacement at some point over the last 4 years and dont pick him would be the most obvious solution. I'm sure if we resigned Shaun Dundee they'd be saying 'well if everytime he gets put through on goal he volleys it a mile wide, what's Rafa supposed to do about that?'

 

There's nothing he can do about isolated incidents like Carra scoring an OG or Agger trying to take people on on the edge of his own box but if there's a problem then it's his responsibility to sort it and no one elses.