Benteke

[ZonkoVille77]

We have a shit load of games each season so he'll get at least 35-40 if fit. He won't be effective in each game. Neither is Coutinho effective in every game he plays. It's a case of horses for courses and there'll be games where he will stink the gaff out and games where he'll excel. Don't see the downside to having him. He's been more profilic in his few months here than Borini, Lambert and Ballotelli combined.

[Jairzinho]

We have a shit load of games each season so he'll get at least 35-40 if fit. He won't be effective in each game. Neither is Coutinho effective in every game he plays. It's a case of horses for courses and there'll be games where he will stink the gaff out and games where he'll excel. Don't see the downside to having him. He's been more profilic in his few months here than Borini, Lambert and Ballotelli combined.

 

He's been okay/decent. Let's be honest though, Borini/Lambert/Balotelli aren't the bench mark of anything. There are players in League 2 that would offer us more than Balotelli did.

 

The problem with "horses for courses" is that Coutinho will be playing in most of the games Benteke does. They impact the effectiveness that the other has. So we have to make a decision, do we want to play the sort of football that gets the best out of Benteke, or the best out of Coutinho? For me, it has to be the latter, and therefore Benteke has to be a plan B. We're highly unlikely to find a way of playing that gets the best out of both, and at the moment it would take more signings, more rebuilding of the squad (such is the complete lack of wingers, lack of the sort of box to box midfielders that could burst onto knock downs, etc) to build the side to fit the abilities of Benteke.

 

I don't want to bin Benteke, but I think we're limiting our potential as a side if we're planning on him being the main man upfront. Big decisions for Klopp in the summer because we can't build the side around Sturridge either for obvious reasons.

[Grinch]

Knocking in cross after cross plays into shite teams hands.  Very low percentage football, under no circumstances should that ever be part of our plan.  Be it A,B,C or D.

 

Either Benteke adapts and be parts of fluid, pressing attack or he fails here.

 

All the goals in the world won't matter since the team's football, amount and quality of chances we create will always be more important than who finishes them.  Same reason Rafa used to bench Crouch after scoring constantly.

[stringvest]

Coutinho played in all those games where we struggled to break teams down. Benteke does make things happen. It shouldnt be one or the other. If benteke plays and his contributions mean we keep winning, footballing logic says keep him in the team. I cant see what is so difficult to understand about that. Apart from those people with a pathological dislike of the player, can anyone tell me why it shouldnt be the case?

[stringvest]

If we win more games with Benteke in the team than without him, which seems to be the case, then I want him in the team.

[eeyore]

Coutinho played in all those games where we struggled to break teams down. Benteke does make things happen. It shouldnt be one or the other. If benteke plays and his contributions mean we keep winning, footballing logic says keep him in the team. I cant see what is so difficult to understand about that. Apart from those people with a pathological dislike of the player, can anyone tell me why it shouldnt be the case?

Lallana did well yesterday to step up and win us the match in coutinho absence yesterday

[stringvest]

Lallana did well yesterday to step up and win us the match in coutinho absence yesterday

What in heavens name are you quacking on about you silly little twerp?

[eeyore]

What in heavens name are you quacking on about you silly little twerp?

My point is you know fuck all about everything

[stringvest]

My point is you know fuck all about everything

Ah, ok. But I do know that winning games wees all over not winning games. Keep up.

[eeyore]

Ah, ok. But I do know that winning games wees all over not winning games. Keep up.

We won't keep getting dodgy penalty decisions forever

 

Is that what makes a good player in your eyes?

[cuppatea]

The idea that Benteke is stifling our attack would carry more weight if it had been any good without him. Apart from the City match, in which we played almost exclusively on the counter against a team that left themselves incredibly vulnerable to it, we've been no more fluid without Benteke in the side and it would be hard to argue that the likes of Firmino, Lallana and Ibe carry anywhere near the same kind of goal threat.

[ZonkoVille77]

^ agree 100%

[setreal]

Ann Coulter> Mark Coulter

[Jairzinho]

Benteke offering more than Origi also isn't proof of anything.

 

I think everyone realises with Sturridge out then Benteke wiill have to play in most games.

[Mathewbet1]

How about getting behind a player instead of Benteke bashing, ive seen enough to suggest klopp will get the best out of him. He's one of your few match winners, who can score a goal out of nothing. I like him.

[G Richards]

For me, Benteke is a good player but his 'fit' with the team can, and should be discussed. Sensible discussion is hindered when the player is dismissed as some sort of useless lump. A basic sense of fair play kicks in for me at that point, and it's easy to point to a variety of good goals: the header v Villa, the composure and cool finish v Chelsea and the overhead kick v Man Utd coming straight to mind, but there have been shots from around the edge of the box that have sailed in too. 

 

With that said, there is a valid discussion to be had about Benteke's 'fit' with the team. Here's my take on what I've seen so far, and where we might be going: 

 

Broadly speaking I can see three styles of forward play evolving under Klopp that will all be used in a 'horses for courses' type of way as he takes us back to the top. Benteke is a back up for one style, crucial to another, and not really needed for a third style. 

 

First Style - Benteke as Back Up

This style needs a goalscorer who is skillful, with good pace, good movement, and can link up very well with the creative players who will be playing in, around and just behind him. At his best Daniel Sturridge should be this man. Given his fitness record I expect us to sign another striker, either in January or in the summer depending on availability.

 

In the meantime it has fallen to Benteke to try to be this man in Sturridge's absence. It doesn't quite play to Benteke's strengths, hence the discussion we're having about his 'fit' with the team. For me, Benteke should be a back up for this style of play, or possibly used as a partner to another striker if Klopp wanted to go with two up top. 

 

Second Style - Benteke as Main Man

While I see Benteke as a back up player in style one, he should be a main man in the second style. This is where we vary the play and try more crosses. That glorious header against Aston Villa could be added to if we put more balls in like that! There is also the longer diagonal ball for Benteke to knock down to runners going beyond him or playing up with him. This doesn't mean we are all of a sudden a 'long ball' team. It just means we are pragmatic and can vary our approach to win games, using all the tools we have at our disposal. 

 

To play like this we will need another winger, someone with pace who is hopefully also a goalscoring threat themselves. Sane might be ideal for the job, but I'm sure Klopp will have plenty of ideas about who he needs. I believe that in this style of play Benteke will come into his own and will more than prove his worth. We've seen glimpses so far.

 

So, back up for style one, kingpin for style two, and not really needed for style three...

 

Third Style - Benteke Not Really Needed

This is the false nine sort or style that doesn't really need a player like Benteke. It's the game we saw against Man City. This is when the opposition are expected to take the game to us and we press and win the ball back high up the pitch, or we get at them on the counter. It requires lots of movement and clever play to carve open some space. Lallana looked at his best for us in this game, but the standout for me was the partnership and understanding that was there for all to see between Coutinho and Firmino. Benteke is not really needed in this sort of style as it's not his game. Get out of the way big fella!

 

Conclusion

Benteke is not a useless lump. The way I see it he is well suited to be a main man in one style of forward play, a back up (or partner) in another, and a spare part in yet another.

 

With the likelihood of injury to one or more of the strikers at any given time, plus varying fitness levels as the season unfolds, plus tiredness due to travel and European competition, there will be plenty of opportunity for Benteke to do his thing and show that he is well worth his place here. We should also consider the variety of styles that will be needed to win different games in different ways. Benteke will have a big part to play in all of that. 

[Tony Moanero]

Ann Coulter> Mark Coulter

Yer ma > Ann Coulter > Mark Coulter

[stringvest]

We won't keep getting dodgy penalty decisions forever

 

Is that what makes a good player in your eyes?

you actually get more stupid with every post. You'll be a salamander by this time next week.

[stringvest]

There is a discussion to be had about Benteke's role in the team and in the squad. But if you start off by dismissing the facts in order to make a spurious and highly contentious point, then you've already lost the debate.

[sh#t waffle]

Who actually did that though?

[Tony Moanero]

Who actually did that though?

Yer ma.

[magicrat]

I think the only debate about Benteke is whether you play him or if you don't. What you see is very much what you get.  I doubt Klopp would have been in for him but he's too good a manager not to find a use for him whilst he's there . Contrast with Bodgers throwing Carroll under a bus before he had even kicked a ball for him.

I can see Benteke being sold in the summer tbh. 

[stringvest]

Who actually did that though?

Go and read through this thread. All the goals in the world wont make a difference etc. crazy stuff. If a player is scoring and setting up goals that win us games more consistently than before, and people want him out of the team because he doesnt 'fit' the way 'we want to play'. I want us to play winning football. One thing im heartily sick of watching is us playing with no cutting edge. We struggle when teams are disciplined in defence, or when they sit deep, which is going to be the case in most of our home games and a lot of our away fixtures. Added to the factthatheholds the ball up betterthan any other player we have, and he is a real asset when defending set pieces, the case against Benteke does not stand up right now. Things may change, but he has carried out his remit more consistently than any other player in the team this season imo.

[eeyore]

you actually get more stupid with every post. You'll be a salamander by this time next week.

In salamander terms so you can follow;

 

Coutinho = best player we have

 

Henderson = will be second best

 

Lallana = average

 

Benteke = dog shit

[stringvest]

There you go, proving my point again. Mark, Im going to let you crack on. Perhaps someone else will be kind enough to ask you to stop embarrassing yourself.