Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[AngryOfTuebrook]

47 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

You're blatantly lying now and you know you are. 

"Blatantly lying"? I asked a question.

 

You said Brexit was left-wing. I asked you to explain that.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

51 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

You're blatantly lying now and you know you are. To pretend that Brexit hasn't had an impact on staff shortages and subsequent wage rises shows you've lost the argument. You're clutching at straws, you're all over the place, denying reality in your futile defence of right wing capitalism. 

We've been through this so many times and still you refuse to peek beyond your blinkers.

 

"Defence of right wing capitalism" my sweaty hoop. Never forget that you're the one on the same side as Boris fucking Johnson here.

[Arniepie]

I wonder how many staff have left the NHS since Brexit?

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.indy100.com/news/gillian-keegan-nhs-staff-brexit-b1987038%3famp

[Gnasher]

13 hours ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

We've been through this so many times and still you refuse to peek beyond your blinkers.

 

"Defence of right wing capitalism" my sweaty hoop. Never forget that you're the one on the same side as Boris fucking Johnson here.

Johnson imo has no real veiw on anything, he'll just say anything at anytime that'll profit him personally. I'm actually on the side of the Labour members who voted by 89% to leave the EU in the late eighties, I'm on the side of the Labour Party thar put it in their manifesto in 83 to leave the EU in the first term of office, I'm on the side of men like Benn, Benn, Attlee, Bevan, Foot and Crow, before the party was hijacked by the change uk lot below,

 

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2020/apr/19/a-year-on-did-change-uk-change-anything

 

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

23 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Johnson imo has no real veiw on anything, he'll just say anything at anytime that'll profit him personally. I'm actually on the side of the Labour members who voted by 89% to leave the EU in the late eighties, I'm on the side of the Labour Party thar put it in their manifesto in 83 to leave the EU in the first term of office, I'm on the side of men like Benn, Benn, Attlee, Bevan, Foot and Crow, before the party was hijacked by the change uk lot below,

 

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2020/apr/19/a-year-on-did-change-uk-change-anything

 

 

The Referendum took place in 2016 and it's effects are being felt now. There's really no point fantasising about what might have been. The only question in the real world is "Was it better or worse for workers to concentrate more power into the hands of the right wing of the Tory Party?"

[Moo]

54 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Johnson imo has no real veiw on anything, he'll just say anything at anytime that'll profit him personally. I'm actually on the side of the Labour members who voted by 89% to leave the EU in the late eighties, I'm on the side of the Labour Party thar put it in their manifesto in 83 to leave the EU in the first term of office, I'm on the side of men like Benn, Benn, Attlee, Bevan, Foot and Crow, before the party was hijacked by the change uk lot below,

 

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2020/apr/19/a-year-on-did-change-uk-change-anything

 

 

And you haven't the first clue how many of those people would feel about the EU nowadays and the Tory Brexit that was on the ballot, so you might want to stop name checking them as it comes across as a weak and immature argument.  A lot has changed in that time.

[Gnasher]

17 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

The Referendum took place in 2016 and it's effects are being felt now. There's really no point fantasising about what might have been. The only question in the real world is "Was it better or worse for workers to concentrate more power into the hands of the right wing of the Tory Party?"

 

Brexit itself has undoubtedly benefited the workers at the lower end of the pay scale in this country, as predicted by the likes of Benn, Foot, Crow and other left wing politicians for donkeys years. The then government forecasts of massive job loses after Brexit have proven to be false. Two important facts, vacancies are high, unemployment is low, not exclusively because of Brexit but most employers and economists flag our leaving the EU as a major cause, and all in spite of one of the the most incompetent governments in history.  

[skend04]

3 minutes ago, Moo said:

And you haven't the first clue how many of those people would feel about the EU nowadays and the Tory Brexit that was on the ballot, so you might want to stop name checking them as it comes across as a weak and immature argument.  A lot has changed in that time.

It's some kind of cognitive dissonance. He would vote in line with Tory extremists for it. It must be difficult and the only way to accept being a right wing shrill (sic) is to pretend to himself that these former Labour stalwarts are also secret Tory extremists.

[Arniepie]

The wage argument is highly suspect.

The price of literally everything is going up..food,energy. Council tax,ni..therefore for the 1st time in a decade we are actually seeing wages go up.

However most of these will see people still worse off in real terms so the argument that, thanks to brexit,normal working people are coining it in.is rather dubious.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

14 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

 

Brexit itself has undoubtedly benefited the workers at the lower end of the pay scale in this country, as predicted by the likes of Benn, Foot, Crow and other left wing politicians for donkeys years. The then government forecasts of massive job loses after Brexit have proven to be false. Two important facts, vacancies are high, unemployment is low, not exclusively because of Brexit but most employers and economists flag our leaving the EU as a major cause, and all in spite of one of the the most incompetent governments in history.  

You still don't get it, do you?

 

1. Brexit hasn't "undoubtedly benefited the workers at the lower end of the pay scale". There is a temporary labour shortage in some sectors, caused by both Covid and Brexit.  Some employers have tried to fill this by offering higher rates of pay, but these aren't sustainable: in the longer terms, those jobs will either be filled by exploitable immigrants from poorer countries or they will simply disappear. There has been no power-shift from the bosses to the workers, nor will there be, since Brexit cemented the power of the worst of the Tories.

 

2. Those long-dead Socialists never opposed the EU on any xenophobic or racist grounds. None of them supported reducing the rights of workers, in the UK or abroad. What they opposed was the restrictions the EEC/EU put on their aspirations for nationalisation of industries and for running a significant national debt. Neither of those issues were at stake during the Referendum that happened in the real world.

[Gnasher]

25 minutes ago, Moo said:

And you haven't the first clue how many of those people would feel about the EU nowadays and the Tory Brexit that was on the ballot, so you might want to stop name checking them as it comes across as a weak and immature argument.  A lot has changed in that time.

A lot has indeed changed, seen the latest unemployment figures? Seen the vacancy boards, seen the firms offering wage rises to entice potential employees?

 

As for a lot has changed since Foot etc, capitalism still remains on the side of capitalists, little has changed in that regard, its why Ursula and Co rub up against the Saudi and Israeli war machines.

[Bruce Spanner]

17 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

The wage argument is highly suspect.

The price of literally everything is going up..food,energy. Council tax,ni..therefore for the 1st time in a decade we are actually seeing wages go up.

However most of these will see people still worse off in real terms so the argument that, thanks to brexit,normal working people are coining it in.is rather dubious.

 

AND EVERY EUROPEAN COUNTRYY SAW INCREASES IN WAGES, SOME IN MULIPLES MORE THAN THE UK, AND IT IS CONTINUALY IGNORED WHEN HE TROTS OUT THE ARGUMENT!

 

IT WAS A RESULT OF COVID NOT BREXIT.

 

Everytime this is trotted out, why do people bother?

[Bruce Spanner]

9 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

A lot has indeed changed, seen the latest unemployment figures? Seen the vacancy boards, seen the firms offering wage rises to entice potential employees?

 

As for a lot has changed since Foot etc, capitalism still remains on the side of capitalists, little has changed in that regard, its why Ursula and Co rub up against the Saudi and Israeli war machines.

 

THE UK IS THE SECOND BIGGEST EXPORTER OF ARMS TO SAUDI, AFTER THE US, THE EU HAVE STOPPED SALES TO ANYTHING LINKED TO THE YEMEN CONFLICT IE SAUDI.

 

WAGE INCREASE HAVE HAPPENED ACROSS EUROPE, WITH THE UK ACTUALLY LAGGING BEHIND, IN SOME CASES IN AS MUCH AS 3X LESS.

 

THIS HAS BEEN POINTED OUT, WITH FUCKING GRAPHS, MULTIPLE TIMES.

[Gnasher]

Change uk caps lock alert.

[Bruce Spanner]

5 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Change uk caps lock alert.

 

No, 'UK' should be capitalised, but good attempt.

 

C+

 

You going to admit you are wrong, again, and that the arguments you put forward in your defense were factually incorrect, again, or are you going to ignore it then trot out the same stupid, bereft, desperate argument same time next week.

 

Admittance is a start all else will follow.

[Gnasher]

On the relationship between Ursula and that nice Saudi regime, I'm just glad they took a bit of time out from all the bombing and beheading, 

 

 

Meanwhile,

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/sep/23/16-million-in-yemen-marching-towards-starvation-as-food-rations-run-low-un

[AngryOfTuebrook]

All of us Saudi-supporting Ursula fans look pretty silly now.

[Gnasher]

42 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

All of us Saudi-supporting Ursula fans look pretty silly now.

Well you did go to the polling station to vote for them.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

10 hours ago, Gnasher said:

Well you did go to the polling station to vote for them.

Yes. That's exactly what we did.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Andrew Rosindell (the Tory cunt who, a while ago, was arguing for poor people to be stripped of their £20 a week while bleating that MPs need their second jobs) being a ridiculous Brexity twat in the House of Commons.

 

 

He had the same idea in 2016 and Newsnight obliged.

 

[Gnasher]

6 hours ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Andrew Rosindell (the Tory cunt who, a while ago, was arguing for poor people to be stripped of their £20 a week while bleating that MPs need their second jobs) being a ridiculous Brexity twat in the House of Commons.

 

 

He had the same idea in 2016 and Newsnight obliged.

 

Tory fool acts tory fool 'shrug'

[Gnasher]

19 hours ago, Arniepie said:

The wage argument is highly suspect.

The price of literally everything is going up..food,energy. Council tax,ni..therefore for the 1st time in a decade we are actually seeing wages go up.

However most of these will see people still worse off in real terms so the argument that, thanks to brexit,normal working people are coining it in.is rather dubious.

You've had this explained to you numerous times, inflation is rising throughout the world, even in the States, nothing to do with Brexit. Council tax rises are also nothing to do with Brexit. 

 

The wage argument is not at all 'suspect' because almost all relevant data is there to see and read, many company's are raising wages, because they have to raise wages, unemployment is low, vacancies are high, the figures are there, read them.

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-set-most-widespread-pay-rises-over-decade-cbi-2021-09-19/

 

https://www.ft.com/content/c555d5af-4cdb-4f83-b12f-6857b7a8ba04

 

Its no fucking wonder people have lost faith with the modern day Labour Party. 

 

 

 

[Gnasher]

 

19 hours ago, Arniepie said:

The wage argument is highly suspect.

The price of literally everything is going up..food,energy. Council tax,ni..therefore for the 1st time in a decade we are actually seeing wages go up.

However most of these will see people still worse off in real terms so the argument that, thanks to brexit,normal working people are coining it in.is rather dubious.

 

Here are figures showing wage rises and inflation. it's worth bearing in mind most wage rises are happening in low paid sectors such as hospitality, construction, agricultural etc, 

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1272447/uk-wage-growth-vs-inflation/

 

As an aside I wouldn't be so quick to turn your nose up at low unemployment, if you ever have the misfortune in future to see high unemployment you'll know all about it, we'll know all about it, the figures that matter then will be the suicide rate. 

[Bjornebye]