The New Star Wars Films

[Section_31]

What baffles me these days is that when you criticise anything that has some previous pop culture links, be it Star Wars, Ghostbusters reboots or whatever, your motives get questioned for saying you didn't like it, as do the standards you're judging it by. 

 

'It's only because you were a kid when you saw the originals' 'they haven't aged well' 'they're kids films anyway' 'they're not meant for people like you and me anymore'. I don't know if it's a bye product of the likes of Disney developing aggressive marketing strategies or what, but it's weird. It's as though they're buying up successful brands to exploit and which come with an existing fanbase they can juice, but then when they're not impressed with the product, it's their fault for not appreciating the fact that it's a brave new dawn and they just don't get it. 

 

In a sense, whisper it quietly, it's almost like football. Here's something you loved, come in and love it again, oh but it's a bit dearer and a bit shitter, until eventually it's 'fuck it we don't need you anyway, we've got the Chinese'. 

 

It's highly patronising having to jump through hoops to pass judgement on a product you don't like. The truth is much simpler with this - it's just a shit film. 

 

I judge films by whether or not they make sense, characterisation, dialogue, and whether or not I was bored - and this failed all of those tests.

 

I've always been a Star Trek fan. I love Discovery. I don't care that it's different from what's gone before, I don't care that it's not episodic or that they swear or that the main character isn't the captain or that the Klingons have been reimagined - it's boss, it's well written and well made, and it entertains me. It's that simple. TLJ didn't. 

[Juniper]

What baffles me these days is that when you criticise anything that has some previous pop culture links, be it Star Wars, Ghostbusters reboots or whatever, your motives get questioned for saying you didn't like it, as do the standards you're judging it by.

 

'It's only because you were a kid when you saw the originals' 'they haven't aged well' 'they're kids films anyway' 'they're not meant for people like you and me anymore'. I don't know if it's a bye product of the likes of Disney developing aggressive marketing strategies or what, but it's weird. It's as though they're buying up successful brands to exploit and which come with an existing fanbase they can juice, but then when they're not impressed with the product, it's their fault for not appreciating the fact that it's a brave new dawn and they just don't get it.

 

In a sense, whisper it quietly, it's almost like football. Here's something you loved, come in and love it again, oh but it's a bit dearer and a bit shitter, until eventually it's 'fuck it we don't need you anyway, we've got the Chinese'.

 

It's highly patronising having to jump through hoops to pass judgement on a product you don't like. The truth is much simpler with this - it's just a shit film.

 

I judge films by whether or not they make sense, characterisation, dialogue, and whether or not I was bored - and this failed all of those tests.

 

I've always been a Star Trek fan. I love Discovery. I don't care that it's different from what's gone before, I don't care that it's not episodic or that they swear or that the main character isn't the captain or that the Klingons have been reimagined - it's boss, it's well written and well made, and it entertains me. It's that simple. TLJ didn't.

And that’s fine, of course you’re allowed to mention you don’t like a film. I personally loved it, couldn’t care less what anyone else thought of it.

 

You didn’t like TLJ, myself and plenty of others did. Doesn’t mean me, you or anyone else is right as it’s all subjective. I know people that hate Discovery, I equally know people who loved it.

 

As long as both positives or critique are made constructively then they more than valid points.

 

However, people who seem to hate it keep coming back with more ways to display their displeasure, most of the time completely way off the mark/clutching at straws.

 

“Rian Johnson/Disney are releasing DVD bonus features to try and pull the wool over peoples eyes that there weren’t issues on set”

 

“Mark Hamill hated the movie, no wonder why there’s no dvd commentary/look at this collection of clips showing his facial reactions, ignoring some positive public statements he’s made about the film”

 

Just two examples since the home release was announced yesterday and instantly this thread was brought back to life with negatives/guesses on what is/was going through the mind of people from an actor to Disney execs.

 

It’s tedious as fuck, and that’s more problematic.

[Tony Moanero]

And that’s fine, of course you’re allowed to mention you don’t like a film. I personally loved it, couldn’t care less what anyone else thought of it.

 

You didn’t like TLJ, myself and plenty of others did. Doesn’t mean me, you or anyone else is right as it’s all subjective. I know people that hate Discovery, I equally know people who loved it.

 

As long as both positives or critique are made constructively then they more than valid points.

 

However, people who seem to hate it keep coming back with more ways to display their displeasure, most of the time completely way off the mark/clutching at straws.

 

“Rian Johnson/Disney are releasing DVD bonus features to try and pull the wool over peoples eyes that there weren’t issues on set”

 

“Mark Hamill hated the movie, no wonder why there’s no dvd commentary/look at this collection of clips showing his facial reactions, ignoring some positive public statements he’s made about the film”

 

Just two examples since the home release was announced yesterday and instantly this thread was brought back to life with negatives/guesses on what is/was going through the mind of people from an actor to Disney execs.

 

It’s tedious as fuck, and that’s more problematic.

 

 

Why is it problematic?

[Juniper]

Why is it problematic?

People giving over the top criticism at any opportunity?

[Tony Moanero]

People giving over the top criticism at any opportunity?

 

 

Yeah, why is that problematic?

 

People just like moaning about stuff.

[Juniper]

Yeah, why is that problematic?

 

People just like moaning about stuff.

I don’t mean problematic in the greater scheme of things, Tony.

 

Like I said earlier it’s just a film.

 

Here’s a recent example from Black Panther even before the film came out.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.cinemablend.com/news/2305952/rotten-tomatoes-will-take-action-at-any-fake-black-panther-reviews

 

People can love/hate a film all they want. Just some people love boring the fuck out of everyone else.

 

Section also mentioned earlier the Ghostbusters reboot. That film had the biggest downrating in YouTube history, from just the trailer. Months before the film even came out.

 

It turned out to be a shite film, but come on. No one would have known that from a 2 minute trailer. Some people just want to be angry, regardless.

[Boss]

I think the Ghostbusters thing was downvoted because firstly it was shite, secondly, it revealed the whole plot of the movie and thirdly it made a mockery of the franchise itself. I'm certain if Bridget Jones was rebooted with Will Ferrell replacing Renee Zellweger it'd receive an even worse reception from women.

[Juniper]

I think the Ghostbusters thing was downvoted because firstly it was shite, secondly, it revealed the whole plot of the movie and thirdly it made a mockery of the franchise itself. I'm certain if Bridget Jones was rebooted with Will Ferrell replacing Renee Zellweger it'd receive an even worse reception from women.

It’s a film about a group of scientists becoming Ghostbusters. Not very complex.

 

Didn’t really reveal the full plot of the film at all, it contained scenes from every act of the film - like pretty much all trailers in movie history. Didn’t even see the villain for example.

 

Shite film all the same though, still didn’t stop an over the top backlash (in this case even before it was released)

[Boss]

It’s a film about a group of scientists becoming Ghostbusters. Not very complex.

 

Didn’t really reveal the full plot of the film at all, it contained scenes from every act of the film - like pretty much all trailers in movie history. Didn’t even see the villain for example.

 

Shite film all the same though, still didn’t stop an over the top backlash (in this case even before it was released)

 

Yeah and Bridget Jones is about a woman wanting a shag, not very complex either but it's the principle. 

 

Well from the trailer I gathered that one was a "genius" physicist, one was an engineer, one was a terrible black stereotype. They all decided to form a Ghostbusters team. Their first mission went 'hilariously' wrong when the ghost vomited on one of their faces. The love interest Chris Hemsworth is possessed. All the ghosts end up loose in New York City, and logically - seeing as it's one of those movies - they save the day in the nick of time and save the world in the process. Beyond the nemesis being revealed, that's pretty much the entire plot of the movie. 

[Juniper]

Yeah and Bridget Jones is about a woman wanting a shag, not very complex either but it's the principle.

 

Well from the trailer I gathered that one was a "genius" physicist, one was an engineer, one was a terrible black stereotype. They all decided to form a Ghostbusters team. Their first mission went 'hilariously' wrong when the ghost vomited on one of their faces. The love interest Chris Hemsworth is possessed. All the ghosts end up loose in New York City, and logically - seeing as it's one of those movies - they save the day in the nick of time and save the world in the process. Beyond the nemesis being revealed, that's pretty much the entire plot of the movie.

If you got the entire main plot of the movie from the trailer (at the time it was released) and worked out the order of the film you must have some sort of super power.

 

You’re typing that having already seen that shitefest of a film.

 

We’re getting off topic but if you think the online reaction (ie 1mil downvotes in terms of numbers) to Ghostbusters was in majority completely sincere reactions then we’ll have to agree to disagree.

[Pureblood]

The original Ghostbusters is shit so I haven't bothered watching the remake.   "Supernatural comedy", fuck off.

[Jenson]

The original Ghostbusters is shit so I haven't bothered watching the remake.   "Supernatural comedy", fuck off.

 

[Pureblood]

Seriously, though, a big marshmallow man, a green slime thing, some of the most irritating characters to appear on film - what am I missing?  I could never identify with it.  

[Tony Moanero]

The Ghostbusters logo is boss, the film, less so. Not one of my favourites.

[Chris]

And that’s fine, of course you’re allowed to mention you don’t like a film. I personally loved it, couldn’t care less what anyone else thought of it.

 

You didn’t like TLJ, myself and plenty of others did. Doesn’t mean me, you or anyone else is right as it’s all subjective. I know people that hate Discovery, I equally know people who loved it.

 

As long as both positives or critique are made constructively then they more than valid points.

 

However, people who seem to hate it keep coming back with more ways to display their displeasure, most of the time completely way off the mark/clutching at straws.

 

“Rian Johnson/Disney are releasing DVD bonus features to try and pull the wool over peoples eyes that there weren’t issues on set”

 

“Mark Hamill hated the movie, no wonder why there’s no dvd commentary/look at this collection of clips showing his facial reactions, ignoring some positive public statements he’s made about the film”

 

Just two examples since the home release was announced yesterday and instantly this thread was brought back to life with negatives/guesses on what is/was going through the mind of people from an actor to Disney execs.

 

It’s tedious as fuck, and that’s more problematic.

 

 

Haha. Fucking Hell. State of that.

[Chris]

People can love/hate a film all they want. Just some people love boring the fuck out of everyone else.

 

 

 

So you discern a viewpoint boring if it contradicts your own. Got it.

 

In the words of the great Holden McNeil: "The Internet is a communication tool used the world over where people can come together to bitch about movies and share pornography with one another." 

 

If people in a Star Wars thread can't nerd out and critique the finer points and have a bit of a moan, then what's the point? Maybe there's an "EVERYTHING IS AWESOME" Star Wars thread where you'll find no contradicting viewpoints?

 

I'm glad for you that you liked it. I did not.

 

Sorry to bore you.

[Pureblood]

In response to JNP, I think a film can be objectively bad - i.e. bad acting, plot holes, bad storytelling are things which can be measured objectively.

 

I would acknowledge that the prequels are objectively bad because they contain elements of the things I mentioned.  I can look past those flaws and still enjoy the movies, and they'll always have a special place in my heart.

 

I also think TLJ is, objectively speaking, a bad movie - e.g. the long side plot involving Finn and Rose, which was ultimately pointless and nobody seemed to like (even fans of the movie).  

[Strontium]

I liked that you got a look at the people who benefited from the whole war, who were safe and detached away from the interminable Empire vs Rebels conflict. It was also a nice touch to show that they were selling weapons to both sides.

[Juniper]

So you discern a viewpoint boring if it contradicts your own. Got it.

 

In the words of the great Holden McNeil: "The Internet is a communication tool used the world over where people can come together to bitch about movies and share pornography with one another."

 

If people in a Star Wars thread can't nerd out and critique the finer points and have a bit of a moan, then what's the point? Maybe there's an "EVERYTHING IS AWESOME" Star Wars thread where you'll find no contradicting viewpoints?

 

I'm glad for you that you liked it. I did not.

 

Sorry to bore you.

That’s ok, don’t worry about it.

 

Maybe though we should set up a hysterical fanny thread where people can moan about DVD bonus features even though they haven’t seen them yet- and where people can call the director names as they didn’t make a film they liked - like a little childish brat.

 

Maybe both our thread ideas are actually a bit shite though and a bit of normality is needed, without all the drama.

[Pureblood]

I liked that you got a look at the people who benefited from the whole war, who were safe and detached away from the interminable Empire vs Rebels conflict. It was also a nice touch to show that they were selling weapons to both sides.

 

It was just paying lip service to some political point, wasn't it?  They sell weapons to both sides... great.  Why is Rian Johnson telling me this?  

 

There is no pause for thought in the new trilogy.  Remember those periods of calm in the OT, such as Luke asking Leia if she remembered her mother on Endor.  Even in the prequels there were little breathers between the action sequences or storytelling parts.  

 

In the new ones it's blam, blam, blam.  

[Chris]

That’s ok, don’t worry about it.

 

Maybe though we should set up a hysterical fanny thread where people can moan about DVD bonus features even though they haven’t seen them yet- and where people can call the director names as they didn’t make a film they liked - like a little childish brat.

 

Maybe both our thread ideas are actually a bit shite though and a bit of normality is needed, without all the drama.

 

 

Wasn't moaning about the features. I wouldn't have bought it regardless. Just thought it was amusing they were all Rian Johnson-centric with no input from anyone else. That seems to have been lost.

[Chris]

In the new ones it's blam, blam, blam.  

 

Almost like it's from the same folks who make Marvel movies...

[Pureblood]

Almost like it's from the same folks who make Marvel movies...

 

I tend to avoid those if I can.  Somebody forced me to watch Deadpool.  It was okay but I wasn't sure which parts I was supposed to be laughing at and the action sequences were all 100mph, so I found it hard to track what was happening.

 

It was a relief when it ended.

 

5/10

[Hades]

I tend to avoid those if I can. Somebody forced me to watch Deadpool. It was okay but I wasn't sure which parts I was supposed to be laughing at and the action sequences were all 100mph, so I found it hard to track what was happening.

 

It was a relief when it ended.

 

5/10

The best part of Star Wars is the mysticism, archetypal character, atmosphere, music and sense of wonder. The pauses help you reflect on and understand the gravity of those moments. The new ones miss the point.

[Tony Moanero]

You're supposed to enjoy and in some cases, find films funny? I used to be a regular at the pictures and the bit I always liked most was when it was time to leave.