Howard Webb

[Randy Marsh]

I just don't see yours, you want another free kick, he didn't give it. It just seems to have taken the focus off another dire performance and it all seems very everton demanding a ref gives another free kick. (in the 93/4/5th min) Its not as though someone was clean through on goal and hacked down or someone should have been sent off with 30 mins to go.

 

Why should the fact he gave another decision earlier influence this one? On that basis then, Fabregas jumping up with both arms raised above his head to block a goal bound chance in the last minute, only 10yards away from England's "best" referee, is acceptable because it resulted from a free kick which had only just been given?

[Faustus]

I do not understand some of the views here. Nobody is saying it had anything to do with our performance for the 93minutes previous. But the fact is that Webb bottled an absolute stonewall decision. There was no excuse, it was clear, it was handball, and he was within 10yards of the incident to see it. And yet again he didn't give it, like he didn't give the cast iron penno at Anfield a few months ago, but he didn't fail to blow up last season when Carrick went down with no contact whatsoever at Old Trafford. How is it small time or everton-like to ask why England's World Cup referee cannot give a decision that Stevie fuckin Wonder would have given? What's the problem?

 

This is just my opinion, mate, but this is my take on it.

 

Personally, I think the vast majority of the refs in this League are utter, utter shite. The only two who I think are anywhere remotely decent are Wiley and Halsey (obviously when he returns to refereeing that is). I think Dean is ok, purely because he at least show's consistency when he refs, but he can't ref our games because of the area he's from, so he's crossed off the list.

 

Anyway, the point I'm making about the refs being shite is that we can't control them. Sometimes they give shit decisions for us, sometimes they give shit decisions against us. Like it or not, it's something we can't control.

 

The one thing that we can control, however, is the level of our own performance. Yes, in my opinion, we should have had a penalty tonight, but we shouldn't have put ourselves in the position of requiring the referee to make a decision that possibly earns us a point against an Arsenal side I thought was there for the taking. I was pleased with our performance up to about the hour mark, but it the inability to step it up from there and have a bit of a go for the remainder of the game was what frustrated me more than that decision in the last minute.

 

I remember I came out of the Britannia when we played Stoke and my mate was moaning about being robbed of two penalties (the Lucas one in the first half was definite, in my book). I took a step back and thought to myself that there was no chance we did enough to win that game because apart from the scrappiest of goals and Kuyt hitting the bar, we did fuck all in the final third and a draw was probably a fair result.

 

I know it's incredibly frustrating when a ref chooses not to give a blatant decision, but rightly or wrongly, I'd rather focus on what we actually can control and why we weren't able to get a result as a consequence of that, as opposed to what bearing the ref has on the game.

 

Besides, we've had a few dodgy decisions go our way as well this season. Birmingham fans could moan about the ref's inability to spot N'Gog's dive at Anfield and Spurs fans could complain about the decision to disallow Defoe's goal, for example.

 

It's a bit of an old cliche, but sometimes you get them and sometimes you don't. I suppose that's what I'm trying to say in a roundabout way!

[TheBitch]

Why should the fact he gave another decision earlier influence this one? On that basis then, Fabregas jumping up with both arms raised above his head to block a goal bound chance in the last minute, only 10yards away from England's "best" referee, is acceptable because it resulted from a free kick which had only just been given?

 

I'm gonna leave it there Randy, I'm tired and we'll agree to disagree on this one.

[That fella]

hes a shit house. Always has been. Fuckin baldy cunt

[Randy Marsh]

This is just my opinion, mate, but this is my take on it.

 

Personally, I think the vast majority of the refs in this League are utter, utter shite. The only two who I think are anywhere remotely decent are Wiley and Halsey (obviously when he returns to refereeing that is). I think Dean is ok, purely because he at least show's consistency when he refs, but he can't ref our games because of the area he's from, so he's crossed off the list.

 

Anyway, the point I'm making about the refs being shite is that we can't control them. Sometimes they give shit decisions for us, sometimes they give shit decisions against us. Like it or not, it's something we can't control.

 

The one thing that we can control, however, is the level of our own performance. Yes, in my opinion, we should have had a penalty tonight, but we shouldn't have put ourselves in the position of requiring the referee to make a decision that possibly earns us a point against an Arsenal side I thought was there for the taking. I was pleased with our performance up to about the hour mark, but it the inability to step it up from there and have a bit of a go for the remainder of the game was what frustrated me more than that decision in the last minute.

 

I remember I came out of the Britannia when we played Stoke and my mate was moaning about being robbed of two penalties (the Lucas one in the first half was definite, in my book). I took a step back and thought to myself that there was no chance we did enough to win that game because apart from the scrappiest of goals and Kuyt hitting the bar, we did fuck all in the final third and a draw was probably a fair result.

 

I know it's incredibly frustrating when a ref chooses not to give a blatant decision, but rightly or wrongly, I'd rather focus on what we actually can control and why we weren't able to get a result as a consequence of that, as opposed to what bearing the ref has on the game.

 

Besides, we've had a few dodgy decisions go our way as well this season. Birmingham fans could moan about the ref's inability to spot N'Gog's dive at Anfield and Spurs fans could complain about the decision to disallow Defoe's goal, for example.

 

It's a bit of an old cliche, but sometimes you get them and sometimes you don't. I suppose that's what I'm trying to say in a roundabout way!

 

That's fair enough mate, I understand what you are saying. Obviously our performance has a bigger bearing on the game than anything, I don't dispute that. For what it's worth I didn't think we where as bad as what people are saying. In the main I think we did well and competed, and did create a few good chances which would on another day have went in, but anyway that's for another thread.

 

My point with the decision tonight was that it was 100% cast iron and there was no excuse whatsoever for him not to give it. No excuse. There was no one in the way, he was a matter of yards away, and the arms where 100% quite clearly raised above his head to block a goalbound effort which could, regardless of what people say about the performance, have given us a highly valuable point. There was no grey area. I cannot for the life of me understand why he didn't give it, and that was clear in our players reactions straight away. How often do you see Gerrard lose it with a referee like that these days? I cannot for the life of me see why he didn't give Stevie's stonewaller against Arsenal a few months ago either, when once again he had a clear and unobstructed view. Whatever people say about the overall performance, these are potentially game changing decisions which he has consistently bottled for us this season.

 

If I sound sad and small time for making such a thing of it I apologise, but I'm fuckin livid. I am absolutely baffled by how he cannot give that decision, there was no excuse at all. And he is England's best referee supposedly

[Randy Marsh]

I'm gonna leave it there Randy, I'm tired and we'll agree to disagree on this one.

 

Fair enough mate, the game's all about opinions as the say.

[Faustus]

That's fair enough mate, I understand what you are saying. Obviously our performance has a bigger bearing on the game than anything, I don't dispute that. For what it's worth I didn't think we where as bad as what people are saying. In the main I think we did well and competed, and did create a few good chances which would on another day have went in, but anyway that's for another thread.

 

My point with the decision tonight was that it was 100% cast iron and there was no excuse whatsoever for him not to give it. No excuse. There was no one in the way, he was a matter of yards away, and the arms where 100% quite clearly raised above his head to block a goalbound effort which could, regardless of what people say about the performance, have given us a highly valuable point. There was no grey area. I cannot for the life of me understand why he didn't give it, and that was clear in our players reactions straight away. How often do you see Gerrard lose it with a referee like that these days? I cannot for the life of me see why he didn't give Stevie's stonewaller against Arsenal a few months ago either, when once again he had a clear and unobstructed view. Whatever people say about the overall performance, these are potentially game changing decisions which he has consistently bottled for us this season.

 

If I sound sad and small time for making such a thing of it I apologise, but I'm fuckin livid. I am absolutely baffled by how he cannot give that decision, there was no excuse at all. And he is England's best referee supposedly

 

No, I don't think you're small time, fella, and that 'Everton' comment I made before deffo wasn't directed at you.

 

I suppose I've changed as a fan over the years. I used to get really angry by referee's decisions like you are, but no I suppose I just greet cock-ups by the officials with either a shrug of the shoulders or a sigh of disbelief. Apologies if that sounds condescending because it's honestly not intended, but I suppose it's just my outlook as a person. I can understand people getting angry because I used to be the same, but nowadays, I suppose I just direct my anger on things that are actually in our control.

 

I do agree it is fucking frustrating though!

[Randy Marsh]

No, I don't think you're small time, fella, and that 'Everton' comment I made before deffo wasn't directed at you.

 

I suppose I've changed as a fan over the years. I used to get really angry by referee's decisions like you are, but no I suppose I just greet cock-ups by the officials with either a shrug of the shoulders or a sigh of disbelief. Apologies if that sounds condescending because it's honestly not intended, but I suppose it's just my outlook as a person. I can understand people getting angry because I used to be the same, but nowadays, I suppose I just direct my anger on things that are actually in our control.

 

I do agree it is fucking frustrating though!

 

No mate that's fair enough I understand what you are saying and I do agree. I knew you weren't being funny and I apologise if I came across narky. Just the frustration coming out I think!

[PaulMcC]

If we played brilliantly, but the opposition keeper was amazing, on a day when we had to win to win the league and the ref turned down a blatant penalty and we drew would you just say fuck it, we shouldn't worry about refs? We'd just lost the league near enough cos of him.

 

Refs decisions change games and he's cost us twice against the same team this season.

[Dicko]

No, I don't think you're small time, fella, and that 'Everton' comment I made before deffo wasn't directed at you.

 

I suppose I've changed as a fan over the years. I used to get really angry by referee's decisions like you are, but no I suppose I just greet cock-ups by the officials with either a shrug of the shoulders or a sigh of disbelief. Apologies if that sounds condescending because it's honestly not intended, but I suppose it's just my outlook as a person. I can understand people getting angry because I used to be the same, but nowadays, I suppose I just direct my anger on things that are actually in our control.

 

I do agree it is fucking frustrating though!

 

It's a long time since I've been as angry as this, Bennett at OT aside. Even Riley not giving Tiago's handball didn't annoy me as much.

[Guest the boy]

another dire performance

 

sorry; what?

[Brownie]

Webb is massively over-rated, the Grant Mitchell look-alike cunt. I really dislike him.

 

He's not the reason we lost tonight though.

[Faustus]

If we played brilliantly, but the opposition keeper was amazing, on a day when we had to win to win the league and the ref turned down a blatant penalty and we drew would you just say fuck it, we shouldn't worry about refs? We'd just lost the league near enough cos of him.

 

Refs decisions change games and he's cost us twice against the same team this season.

 

Come on, mate, be fair. That's just all ifs and buts fabricated by yourself to suit your own point of view. I could do the same. For instance, if we were 2-1 up in the 93rd minute, nobody would have bumped this Howard Webb thread to complain about not getting that penalty. That's probably an unfair statement to make and obviously hypothetical, but I think yours is equally so.

 

I don't believe in absolutist points of views, but my post above reflects how I feel 99% of the time. Considering we've never been in that position, I honestly don't know how I'd feel, whether I'd look back at individual games in the season that cost us, rather than having it hinge on that penalty decision or whether I'd be fucking livid. Probably a mixture of the two, to be honest.

 

This is not meant to sound smart arsed at all (it's not intended so apologies if you read it that way), but I'm seriously going to ask my grandad how he felt when Toshack's perfectly good goal at Highbury on the last day was disallowed to deny us the League out of interest.

[PaulMcC]

I think a ref mising a blatant penalty or a goal like Stoke last season is as bad as one of our players missing a good chance.

[Brownie]

I think a ref mising a blatant penalty or a goal like Stoke last season is as bad as one of our players missing a good chance.

 

One instance, you can control, the other you can't.

[PaulMcC]

So we want our players to be perfect but the refs are all right to make mistakes that fuck us up?

 

Ideally we wouldn't miss chances but it's easier to miss a chance than it is to miss someone with their hands above their head blocking the ball.

[Dicko]

One instance, you can control, the other you can't.

 

Alex Ferguson would disagree.

[Brownie]

So we want our players to be perfect but the refs are all right to make mistakes that fuck us up?

 

Ideally we wouldn't miss chances but it's easier to miss a chance than it is to miss someone with their hands above their head blocking the ball.

 

They're both mistakes. Yes you can be clearly frustrated when a referee makes a poor decision, i'm not saying you can't.

 

But it's a bit rich to blame a referee for a result when you've had 90 minutes to do something about it with your football; that's just how I see it.

 

And, you do tend to have situations where you've been on the receiving end of lucky decisions with referee's as well.

[Faustus]

So we want our players to be perfect but the refs are all right to make mistakes that fuck us up?

 

Ideally we wouldn't miss chances but it's easier to miss a chance than it is to miss someone with their hands above their head blocking the ball.

 

No, I've never said that at all.

 

I just said I'd rather focus on things that we can control, rather than things we can't.

 

Christ, mate, is there really any harm in that?

 

And in response, to the previous post, you made- I've got a a mate who puts our failure to win the League last season down to Andre Marriner's decision to disallow that goal against Stoke and Webb's decision to award the Mancs that penno against Spurs. Personally, I'd put it down to our tactics in the home games against Fulham, West Ham and Hull.

 

As I said, it's incredibly frustrating when the ref doesn't give a decision in your favour and gives a ludicrous one against us, but like I said, I personally prefer to focus on what is in our own hands.

[PaulMcC]

No, I've never said that at all.

 

I just said I'd rather focus on things that we can control, rather than things we can't.

 

Christ, mate, is there really any harm in that?

 

And in response, to the previous post, you made- I've got a a mate who puts our failure to have won the League down to Andre Marriner's decision to disallow that goal against Stoke and Webb's decision to award the Mancs that penno against Spurs. Personally, I'd rather put it down to our tactics in the home games against Fulham, West Ham and Hull.

 

As I said, it's incredibly frustrating when the ref doesn't give a decision in your favour and gives a ludicrous one against us, but like I said, I personally prefer to focus on what is in our own hands.

 

It wasn't directed at you in particualr, mate.

 

I just find it hard when people will give players in our team loads of shit for missing 1 chance but just let it go when the ref misses something that is far easier to get right.

[Dicko]

No, I've never said that at all.

 

I just said I'd rather focus on things that we can control, rather than things we can't.

 

Christ, mate, is there really any harm in that?

 

And in response, to the previous post, you made- I've got a a mate who puts our failure to win the League last season down to Andre Marriner's decision to disallow that goal against Stoke and Webb's decision to award the Mancs that penno against Spurs. Personally, I'd put it down to our tactics in the home games against Fulham, West Ham and Hull.

 

As I said, it's incredibly frustrating when the ref doesn't give a decision in your favour and gives a ludicrous one against us, but like I said, I personally prefer to focus on what is in our own hands.

 

They were both Webb's decisions.

[Dan Vito Corleone]

Andre Marriner was the tosser responsible for the Stoke disallowed goal.

[Faustus]

It wasn't directed at you in particualr, mate.

 

I just find it hard when people will give players in our team loads of shit for missing 1 chance but just let it go when the ref misses something that is far easier to get right.

 

Ok, fair enough, mate- sorry if that response seemed a bit snappy.

 

Think that might be a sign I'm getting a bit paranoid and need to get some sleep!

[Red Phoenix]

This fucker just adds to the already depressed feelings of going bald. I might have to seriously consider checking out Morries Wig Shop so I don't look anything like him in the future, apart from the colour of my skin.

 

The cunt. Don't know what was worse, the decision at the end, or the smug look on his face as he kept pointing our players off the pitch.

[Dicko]

Andre Marriner was the tosser responsible for the Stoke disallowed goal.

 

Yup.

It was Webb that didn't see Gerrard being fouled by Gallas this season.

 

It's not just Webb though look at that Indian linesman he gave an absolutely pathetic display in a Portsmouth match recently.

 

Why wasn't this cunt forcibly removed after he spotted Yossi's back viciously assaulting Bosingwa's studs from all of two yards.